When did this hobby change (2 Viewers)

[Irish]

My biggest gripe? Get me some damn faux clays again. Like jeez.

Think about combining the faux clay nation with the power of milling for labels.....

 

[PhilLaFond]

I don't think you're too far off base Mark. You and I talked about this briefly recently. I can't pinpoint it, but as someone who started discovering this "hobby" way back on HomePokerTourney, and was then an active member on CT, things definitely feel different. Still a great resource for information, but the community aspect has changed tremendously, at least for me. On a positive note, have met some great people, both at meet ups and as new players in our local games who I probably never would have crossed paths with, if it wasn't for this forum.

 

[ovo]

I by no means wish to beat this dead horse, I just want to add that when I hear that “these chips never got in play” it makes me wonder why they were purchased in the first place. I’m new to this so I don’t know when it happened but there’s been some kind of shift from poker chips being a functional thing to be handled, used and appreciated to this “work of art” mentality where they’re purchased, sit on a shelf because you can’t devalue them, then moved on to the next buyer at a profit.

Rest assured, if I buy chips from you those suckers are being handled. A lot. Because I love poker chips. All of them, not just the shiny ones.

Man, this thread fired me up. LOL

As @BGinGA mentioned, I have plenty of chips that have never seen play. I bought them with the thought they would, and still will see play. Not using chips, so the resale value will remain high has never entered my mind. I just have too many chips, but that doesn't bother me. And I've never sold any, so .... there are a few of us out there. And as @krafticus brought up the op topic, things started changing way back in CT days and @BGinGA point of The Chiproom was a valid reason. There is no way to weed out people that actively try to make a profit with only minor interest in the hobby. And now there are too many people with deeper pockets that influence the market. Nothing can be done about that. Certainly with my love for chips, if I were rich, I would buy everyones chips, pretty soon I would have all the chips and this would be called Frank's Chip Forum, oh well, back to reality

 

[mike32]

I think it’s a great time to be a chipper! I also still love the content on pcf. I was recently able to put together a mint set of Detroit Jack Paulson chips for well under $2 per chip. Unused beautiful casino Paulson chips for like $1.40 per, how cool is that? And I’m a lifelong Detroit area resident. If I don’t like someone’s price on a sale I feel I have a very powerful vote against it, my closed wallet. If people want to pay crazy bucks go for it. I also like to give people fair or better deals when I rarely do sell. You won’t see me asking $10 per chip for boat chips, but if someone does they have to live with themselves. But you also won’t see me paying $10 per chip. All in all I love this place as much as ever, and the membership here is awesome.

 

[BarrieJ3]

pretty soon I would have all the chips and this would be called Frank's Chip Forum, oh well, back to reality

Just a thought, at least go with Phrank’sChipForum.com. You know, to maintain the value of PCF chips out there as well as any PCF lanyards, table toppers, etc.

 

[JMC9389]

https://flic.kr/p/2imRaip

Shit sorry, wrong thread.

Do you have a single to spare?

 

[trigs]

I'm still new here so I can't comment on how it used to be.

Imho though, this is still one of if not the nicest, kindest forum communities I've ever seen. The amount of help and guidance and sharing is like something I've never seen anywhere else on the internet.

However, on the other side, I don't see why too many classified ads goes against this community. Obviously I want amazing chips and there are ones that I will never have because there is no way I'm paying those insane prices. If someone else is willing to though I don't see how it's anyone's fault or how this is negative. It sucks for those who can't afford it but that's how the market works.

Bottom line, if you want to sell chips to make money you should be free to do so and not be judged. If you want to foster a great community and make friends then continue to do that and choose not to gouge people with your sales. I don't think one can be exclusive from the other especially on the internet.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

You guys are focusing too much on the classified aspect, and not enough on the original content part of it. Simply look at the stickied threads in the off-topic section and see how many were started by @jbutler. When the zealous over-modifictaion started because of the paranoia about the boat chips getting leaked, and guys like butler and bergs who like them or not provided great content got banned (and Courage's DCS meetup threads all got locked), their friends also started posting less frequently, and then friends of those friends started posting less frequently.

Sure, the amount of auctions and maximizing profits have also skyrocketed, but this was probably always bound to happen in a money-driven hobby. But in my opinion, the turning point was clearly when the mods decided to sacrifice long time members and content to protect their wallets.

 

[BGinGA]

the turning point was clearly when the mods decided to sacrifice long time members and content to protect their wallets.

Sorry, but that's not exactly how or why it happened, and you know it.

 

[longflop]

I don't think you're too far off base Mark. You and I talked about this briefly recently. I can't pinpoint it, but as someone who started discovering this "hobby" way back on HomePokerTourney, and was then an active member on CT, things definitely feel different. Still a great resource for information, but the community aspect has changed tremendously, at least for me. On a positive note, have met some great people, both at meet ups and as new players in our local games who I probably never would have crossed paths with, if it wasn't for this forum.

I'm going agree with Phil here. I've met a bunch of great people through this forum. Thanks to @krafticus and @Highli99 and my monthly game, I have more opportunities to play poker, than I have time to do it. Still want to make it to a meet up, but my bankroll and skill level can't handle that at the moment. Plus, there is some A+ (good natured) trolling on here that makes me smile.

That being said, I have noticed a lot of for sale threads lately. It doesn't really bother me, I just look and dream, knowing that there is no way my cheap ass is going to pay those prices. There is a reason I got in on the Scrub Donkey sale!

 

[Mojo1312]

I'm still new here so I can't comment on how it used to be.

Imho though, this is still one of if not the nicest, kindest forum communities I've ever seen. The amount of help and guidance and sharing is like something I've never seen anywhere else on the internet.

However, on the other side, I don't see why too many classified ads goes against this community. Obviously I want amazing chips and there are ones that I will never have because there is no way I'm paying those insane prices. If someone else is willing to though I don't see how it's anyone's fault or how this is negative. It sucks for those who can't afford it but that's how the market works.

Bottom line, if you want to sell chips to make money you should be free to do so and not be judged. If you want to foster a great community and make friends then continue to do that and choose not to gouge people with your sales. I don't think one can be exclusive from the other especially on the internet.

 

[justsomedude]

You guys are focusing too much on the classified aspect, and not enough on the original content part of it. Simply look at the stickied threads in the off-topic section and see how many were started by @jbutler. When the zealous over-modifictaion started because of the paranoia about the boat chips getting leaked, and guys like butler and bergs who like them or not provided great content got banned (and Courage's DCS meetup threads all got locked), there friends also started posting less frequently, and then friends of those friends started posting less frequently.

Seems like a strawman argument because you hold a grudge.

If a forum relies on content from 1 or 2 people to remain entertaining... then it's over before it even gets started.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Seems like a strawman argument because you hold a grudge.

If a forum relies on content from 1 or 2 people to remain entertaining... then it's over before it even gets started.

I don't hold a grudge, I'm long over it, and I still thankfully talk to Bergs and Butler daily. I've met some great people through this hobby, people who will be friends for life, and for that I'm grateful. I'm just telling it how I see it from my perspective.

 

[Venturalvn]

Seems like a strawman argument because you hold a grudge.

If a forum relies on content from 1 or 2 people to remain entertaining... then it's over before it even gets started.

It's not really though, that's the point some of us are making.

@krafticus, @Chippy McChiperson, and now that I realize it, my feelings are coming from the fact that the hobby used to revolve around fun, new content, creative design ideas, the people of the community coming together to share.

Now 80% of it is just classified for NAGB and flipped chiproom sales. It's boring.

 

[justsomedude]

It's not really though, that's the point some of us are making.

@krafticus feeling is coming from the fact that the hobby used to revolve around fun, new content, creative design ideas, the people of the community coming together to share.

Now 80% of it is just classified for NAGB and flipped chiproom sales. It's boring.

I see the point, I just disagree with his argument.

The idea that the banning of two members is the single/sole reason that a majority of members had a shift in how people viewed this very forum is silly to me.

Is "the banning era" one of many many factors that contributed to changing perspectives? Sure... but to put it at the top of the pyramid is disingenuous. I'm guessing he knows that too, he just wanted to run his mouth.

 

[Perthmike]

I got so bored I tried setting up a fantasy chip draft and nobody gave two shits lol.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I see the point, I just disagree with his argument.

The idea that the banning of two members is the single/sole reason that a majority of members had a shift in how people viewed this very forum is silly to me.

Is "the banning era" one of many many factors that contributed to changing perspectives? Sure... but to put it at the top of the pyramid is disingenuous. I'm guessing he knows that too, he just wanted to run his mouth.

It's not just the two members who were lost, it's the chain reaction that followed. A lot of people either stopped posting completely or greatly reduced their posting frequency after this occured. Was it a direct result of this? Probably not in all cases, but certainly in a good many.

 

[APatHand]

Don't ban me, bro!

 

[BGinGA]

It's not just the two members who were lost, it's the chain reaction that followed. A lot of people either stopped posting completely or greatly reduced their posting frequency after this occured. Was it a direct result of this? Probably not in all cases, but certainly in a good many.

Their loss, bottom line. Ours too, but to a much lesser degree. Same reason you're still here.

 

[justsomedude]

It's not just the two members who were lost, it's the chain reaction that followed. A lot of people either stopped posting completely or greatly reduced their posting frequency after this occured. Was it a direct result of this? Probably not in all cases, but certainly in a good many.

Do I think it had a noticeable impact? Yes. Is it the single/sole reason for some tectonic shift in how a majority approached the forum and/or posting? I don't think so. "Many"? Arguably. "Some"? Sure.

The issue here is complex and has many layers. From the collapse of CT, the departure of JM, The Chip Room flippers, Boat Buys, the banning of Butler and Bergs, personal sets, BTP, etc. Heck, even the private PM sales have an impact on new members. When they read posts like these and realize that long standing members are regularly selling their sets via PMs or emails without ever hitting the classifieds, they certainly wonder, "well how do I get into that clique"??

I would've reacted differently if you had simply added your concerns to one of the many others, instead of trying to make it the Mt. Vesuvius of PCF problems.

And I apologize for snapping at you.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Their loss, bottom line. Ours too, but to a much lesser degree. Same reason you're still here.

I'm still here out of habit mostly. I check the classifieds to see if any interesting things pop up, and I look in the other forums to see if there are any interesting posts I can chime in on. Every once in awhile there are.

 

[Josh Kifer]

^ yes, this is a definite reality for some of us.

Sets, racks to make mixed sets, more racks to make interchangeable sets, different racks to replace racks in mixed sets, different sets to replace other sets..... it's a never-ending cycle.

And when you've fallen in love with them, it's hard to let them go, even after you realize that they probably won't ever have a chance to see table time. And the more you let go, the harder it becomes to let go of what remains.

Chip hoarding is real, and has absolutely nothing to do with making a profit. But I'm trying to get better.

**THEME MUSIC STARTS**

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Do I think it had a noticeable impact? Yes. Is it the single/sole reason for some tectonic shift in how a majority approached the forum and/or posting? I don't think so. "Many"? Arguably. "Some"? Sure.

The issue here is complex and has many layers. From the collapse of CT, the departure of JM, The Chip Room flippers, Boat Buys, the banning of Butler and Bergs, personal sets, BTP, etc. Heck, even the private PM sales have an impact on new members. When they read posts like these and realize that long standing members are regularly selling their sets via PMs or emails without ever hitting the classifieds, they certainly wonder, "well how do I get into that clique"??

I would've reacted differently if you had simply added your concerns to one of the many others, instead of trying to make it the Mt. Vesuvius of PCF problems.

And I apologize for snapping at you.

No need to apologize, you have your opinions, as do we all. Sure there are many contributing factors, but the question was "When did this hobby change", and in my opinion it was when the bannings happened. But again, just my opinion.

 

[Legend5555]

I'm one of the few thats here more for the non-chip focused stuff. I love looking at the pictures of everyone's stuff. And I love playing with high quality chips when I have the chance. But I have very little interest in spending lots of money on chips as poker is my main focus.

I was a long time lurker on CT, and I only joined here to find out what some alternatives were to the $1+/chips. I have no issues with people using the market to their advantage. But what I find more troublesome is how often members seem to push cheaper RHC on newer members instead better informing them about CC and Slugged chips. I don't think it's right without knowing the person well to push expensive product on them when CC is typically a better budget option.

The argument is always "but they don't hold value." But how many people coming into the hobby do you really think are focusing on resale value? I know I'm not. Many people just don't view this that way IMO. They want a nice set they can use for a long time and are probably okay with losing that money forever. If they aren't and they want to "level up" their chip gane then fine. I highly doubt having bought a single sub $400 set is going to stop then from going deeper.

This hobby isn't just about the high quality stuff IMO. And I think the success of the Royals really shows that.

 

[mike32]

Bergs and Jbutler are probably awesome people in real life, I have never met them. They also created some hilarious and interesting content. They could also be some cold motherfuckers if they set their mind to it, as could some of their close friends. I was never on the receiving end of the coldness (actually maybe I was now that I think about it), but I sure saw it.
PCF is probably less interesting without them, but there is a side to it I personally don’t miss at all.

 

[Josh Kifer]

....... Did someone say murder?

Think about combining the faux clay nation with the power of milling for labels.....

View attachment 400004

 

[gopherblue]

I miss the involvement of most all of those guys from that group, Bergs and JButler included. Frankly, all of them, save one.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Bergs and Jbutler are probably awesome people in real life, I have never met them. They also created some hilarious and interesting content. They could also be some cold motherfuckers if they set their mind to it, as could some of their close friends. I was never on the receiving end of the coldness (actually maybe I was now that I think about it), but I sure saw it.
PCF is probably less interesting without them, but there is a side to it I personally don’t miss at all.

I personally always had a great time with Bergs. A lot of bets on the cowboys and sarcasm, but this statement is dead on. I loved both of them, but Jesus, some days.....

 

[Forty4]

One of my observations is that I really liked that people with different views could be brought together over a common interest. During the last election things certainly got very intense and a sub-forum was created. I actually found it detrimental to the site because while I don’t have to agree with a particular point of view I did find it informative, however some people are more passionate than I about things and while I understand the demand for the sub-forum it did help with a divide. Look maybe we were on the way there but I don’t know that I agree with it as I’ve seen people from different sides of the fence/world/aisle come together at meet ups and have what appears to be a good/great/cordial time. I don’t know all the stories and have only heard some perspectives but then again I was one that could separate and recognize that people might actually have different views/perspectives/opinions/realities.

 

[AH77]

I'm one of the few thats here more for the non-chip focused stuff. I love looking at the pictures of everyone's stuff. And I love playing with high quality chips when I have the chance. But I have very little interest in spending lots of money on chips as poker is my main focus.

I was a long time lurker on CT, and I only joined here to find out what some alternatives were to the $1+/chips. I have no issues with people using the market to their advantage. But what I find more troublesome is how often members seem to push cheaper RHC on newer members instead better informing them about CC and Slugged chips. I don't think it's right without knowing the person well to push expensive product on them when CC is typically a better budget option.

The argument is always "but they don't hold value." But how many people coming into the hobby do you really think are focusing on resale value? I know I'm not. Many people just don't view this that way IMO. They want a nice set they can use for a long time and are probably okay with losing that money forever. If they aren't and they want to "level up" their chip gane then fine. I highly doubt having bought a single sub $400 set is going to stop then from going deeper.

This hobby isn't just about the high quality stuff IMO. And I think the success of the Royals really shows that.

View attachment 400028

Same thing happens in the watch collecting community. A newcomer will post a watch in the $1200-$2500 range and someone will respond by saying “Yeah that’s cool, but I would just save for a little longer and buy a Rolex” as if the ~ $5,000 difference is totally normal for a person looking for something simple.