When did this hobby change (2 Viewers)

[detroitdad]

Detroitdad was a godsend for a new chipper with questions.

Thanks. I try.

Most of my own purchases and sales have been accomplished via private messages or emails.

I always try this route first if possible. This way I can "choose" whom I sell too. Hell, I sold a set to @BarrieJ3 recently for less than I paid for it just because. I'm not collecting the money until we meet in Florida. I might be selling a set to another member for less than what I had posted it for sale. Fuck it. Why not.

It seems like I'm constantly in negotiations with @Frank over the last two years for one set or another of his. @liftapint has joined in as well (two fantastic members).

Everything is out in the open with me. You ask me, and I'll tell you what I think. Sometimes you don't even have to ask (I'm trying to get better at that). I agree with Dave. The chiproom sales kind of started it. Then the first group buy kind of went crazy. Then lets add in some members with deep pockets and willing to over pay for whatever they want. Nothing wrong with that. It does throw a wrench into the marketplace. Then everyone starts to think their customs, their sets, ect...are worth way more than what they actually are. They post 10k sets and bump them mercilessly.

None of this matters though. This is just more drama in the hobby. Some of which I am at fault for. Hell, some want to be trolled and I'm happy to oblige them.

 

[Changster]

I’ve been offered flipper prices on some chips via PM

For group buy chips? “Flipper prices” means they were part of the original group buy?

Lotta people talk about flippers but there are only so many original group buy members.

I don’t really consider someone a flipper if say they got a decent deal on some chips (say $2.5/chip) and resell them for slightly higher or market prices (say $3/chip). The profit is so tiny that it doesn’t matter at all.

People keep talking about flipping chips for profit but there were like what, 10 people involved in GBs?

I’m not directing this at you personally... just in general. Like how many flippers can there be? There can’t be many, cuz by definition there weren’t many GB members.

I don’t see any other chips that were “flippable” except if you got original sale Jacks.

 

[FordPickup92]

For group buy chips? “Flipper prices” means they were part of the original group buy?

Lotta people talk about flippers but there are only so many original group buy members.

I don’t really consider someone a flipper if say they got a decent deal on some chips (say $2.5/chip) and resell them for slightly higher or market prices (say $3/chip). The profit is so tiny that it doesn’t matter at all.

People keep talking about flipping chips for profit but there were like what, 10 people involved in GBs?

I’m not directing this at you personally... just in general. Like how many flippers can there be? There can’t be many, cuz by definition there weren’t many GB members.

I don’t see any other chips that were “flippable” except if you got original sale Jacks.

Imo buying chips at x price and selling them for a mark up (GB or not) is flipping

 

[Changster]

Imo buying chips at x price and selling them for a mark up (GB or not) is flipping

Is there a timeframe to this?

People who bought original TRK’s back in the day... are they flipping if they sold now at what the market will accept?

 

[FordPickup92]

Is there a timeframe to this?

People who bought original TRK’s back in the day... are they flipping if they sold now at what the market will accept?

Yea sure theres a time frame. No I dont feel like original buyers of chips (ie your example) is flipping but when you see something listed on eBay for x it disappears and in a few days it come back up on PCF marked up in price, you're flipping chips. People buy chips all the time at great prices and sit on them for months or even years to sell with the intent of making a profit. They dont care about the affect it has. That's what I consider flipping.

 

[Marius L]

I wasn't around in the CT days, but the market is completely different for sure. The days of chips in high supply and low demand is gone. I heard thechiproom had some crazy sales to get rid of their secondary PCA 25$ for something like 60c ea? Crystal Parks 1k/5k selling for 1-2$ ea, and now it's like 20$+ ea. It's a different time now, more people interested in buying chips and lower supply. I appreciate reading the forums daily, both the classifieds and the rest. Looking for cool chips to buy, and looking at many cool projects people are making. Relabel sets, milling jobs, sunfly custom designs, GBs... I think there's a lot going on.

When it comes to price of chips, I honestly don't blame people for profiting on sales. In an ideal world there would be enough awesome leaded, shaped inlaid, colorful, THC Paulsons to go around for everybody, but that's not the case. They are scarce in demand items. The problem with selling chips super cheap openly on the forum is that many of the buyers will just flip the chips down the line. You are basically just throwing away money. As long as there are people who is willing to pay top dollar, I understand why people ask it.

When I bought my Jack chips from thechiproom sale, it was because I genuinely wanted them and loved the colors and spots. I didn't plan on selling them. It was a pretty big purchase for me, as I don't have that high disposable income, and so 1500$ is quite a lot and I had to sell other chips to fund the purchase. I was super happy when I got them in hand! After a while, people start paying crazy amounts for these chips, and they regularly sold for far higher prices in the classifieds then in thechiproom sale. I figured at the money they were fetching I could exchange my set of jacks for a THC set consisting of relabeled AS chips and PCA chips. Technically I didn't trade, but sold my jacks and bought the other chips. Does it make me a flipper? Maybe I guess, but then again if the prices of the jacks didn't increase that much I wouldn't have sold, and my intention when buying the jacks was not to flip. A PCA relabel set is worth more to me than a Jack set, but to others it was apparently worth the same, so to me it was a no-brainer to trade up.

The way I see it, as long as people are willing to pay high prices I understand that people are asking for it. Is it sad for me because I won't ever have a set of BTP or SB chips? For sure. Still I can't blame the sellers. If @Lemonzest sold the SB chips at 2.5$ each. How long would it take for people to start flipping and the prices would reach the prices they are currently at?

 

[arch3r]

Yea sure theres a time frame. No I dont feel like original buyers of chips (ie your example) is flipping but when you see something listed on eBay for x it disappears and in a few days it come back up on PCF marked up in price, you're flipping chips. People buy chips all the time at great prices and sit on them for months or even years to sell with the intent of making a profit. They dont care about the affect it has. That's what I consider flipping.

Not trying to pick on you Brie, but would you then consider TheChipRoom a flipper? That is Jim's exact business model.

 

[FordPickup92]

Not trying to pick on you Brie, but would you then consider TheChipRoom a flipper? That is Jim's exact business model.

Yup. Hes a business he makes money off of people who cannot access the chips he can. That's how businesses survive, selling goods others cannot access.

In my eyes the difference is he pays taxes and fees on everything because he is a business, which is different than an individual

 

[BarrieJ3]

I always try this route first if possible. This way I can "choose" whom I sell too. Hell, I sold a set to @BarrieJ3 recently for less than I paid for it just because. I'm not collecting the money until we meet in Florida. I might be selling a set to another member for less than what I had posted it for sale. Fuck it. Why not.

It seems like I'm constantly in negotiations with @Frank over the last two years for one set or another of his. @liftapint has joined in as well (two fantastic members).

For anyone complaining, if you want to change it, this is how. I’m not saying Bill is a saint and he’s not losing his ass, but he had a set awhile back I think would’ve been snap bought, and probably more than he sold it to me for. That was cool. I took his example, and it moved on at the exact same price. I had no right to make $ off him. The guy that has it now knows if he sells, it stays at the price and I have right of refusal (which I also gave to Bill). I’ve done this with set after set.

Shit, I won 1000 piece Radisson set for 555 cause no one paid attention to the auction. Wanted to sell, wasn’t sure what to do since they were worth way more and had interest. Sold it for still crazy deal, made less than $100 (and offered half to the person I bought it from), and used the money to pay for a groups chips in a sample thread.

Im not saying all this for a pat on the back, I’m a scrub compared to most on here. I’m saying that if people would just effing do this, you’d have a great open market to trade and enjoy chips. Of course vendors can flip, it’s literally part of their business. When every single person has to make their $10, $15 on every single exchange though, we end up here. Super sad, since when I first joined it seemed so easy to luckbox into amazing deal after deal.

edit: I get it, it’s not that bad. Especially for detroitdad and others who’ve been around and built those inroads. But for newer members, even if they love the community idea and want to buy in, they don’t get to experience that love, that transparent market (which exists, but in PMs, texts, and in person). Instead we’re stuck wading through the bullshit, hoping those in the know see us and being us in to the fold.

 

[JRReynolds6181]

I hope people keep this thread in mind the next time a new person introduces him/herself and before they even say “hi” you’re explaining that in two months time they’ll be dropping thousands of dollars on a chip set and it’s an “addiction” yadda yadda yadda.

Drives me nuts. Makes it sound like this is a forum of used car salespeople, not people who love chips. You sound like you’re priming customers, not welcoming someone to enjoy a hobby. There’s this haughty disdain for anything less than Paulson then you look at the classifieds and you want $500 a rack. What do you expect?

Grinds my gears is all.

 

[arch3r]

Seems most people agree that things changed with the introduction of extreme profit taking, which I classify differently than a flipper. Anyone who has bought and then later sold is technically, I guess, guilty of flipping. Not a bad thing, since this hobby relies on that model, buying/selling/trading. When individuals take advantage of that model is where it all goes to shit.

 

[ChipFinderSK]

Maybe I’m confused about the term “flipping.” I thought it meant buying with the intention of selling for profit.

Is there a standard/accepted definition for flipping?

edit: I’m not sure how much time owned plays a part, but generally agree with Brie that it’s about someone’s intent at the time of purchase.

 

[slisk250]

I'm about 85% sure that there used to be a separate forum exclusively for the NAGB members.

FYP... but what difference does that make? There are two FB groups I'm in, star chip related and chip donkey too. Then there is the email, PM and messenger threads. I'm in so many "secret" groups I can't keep track. I have a few design thread groups for my next customs....and the garage build too.

 

[slisk250]

Maybe I’m confused about the term “flipping.” I thought it meant buying with the intention of selling for profit.

Is there a standard/accepted definition for flipping?

edit: I’m not sure how much time owned plays a part, but generally agree with Brie that it’s about someone’s intent at the time of purchase.

flipping...jumping on a dibs sale, then immediately selling at a big profit (or chiproom sale too). You never wanted the chips in this case. Members that do this will never ever get a chip I sell at any price...or a seat at my game.

 

[JRReynolds6181]

I by no means wish to beat this dead horse, I just want to add that when I hear that “these chips never got in play” it makes me wonder why they were purchased in the first place. I’m new to this so I don’t know when it happened but there’s been some kind of shift from poker chips being a functional thing to be handled, used and appreciated to this “work of art” mentality where they’re purchased, sit on a shelf because you can’t devalue them, then moved on to the next buyer at a profit.

Rest assured, if I buy chips from you those suckers are being handled. A lot. Because I love poker chips. All of them, not just the shiny ones.

Man, this thread fired me up. LOL

 

[FordPickup92]

I by no means wish to beat this dead horse, I just want to add that when I hear that “these chips never got in play” it makes me wonder why they were purchased in the first place. I’m new to this so I don’t know when it happened but there’s been some kind of shift from poker chips being a functional thing to be handled, used and appreciated to this “work of art” mentality where they’re purchased, sit on a shelf because you can’t devalue them, then moved on to the next buyer at a profit.

Rest assured, if I buy chips from you those suckers are being handled. A lot. Because I love poker chips. All of them, not just the shiny ones.

Man, this thread fired me up. LOL

That's my thing... why buy them to resell if you wont use them??? Why not let someone who will use them and love them buy them at a great price!

 

[Perthmike]

I by no means wish to beat this dead horse, I just want to add that when I hear that “these chips never got in play” it makes me wonder why they were purchased in the first place. I’m new to this so I don’t know when it happened but there’s been some kind of shift from poker chips being a functional thing to be handled, used and appreciated to this “work of art” mentality where they’re purchased, sit on a shelf because you can’t devalue them, then moved on to the next buyer at a profit.

Rest assured, if I buy chips from you those suckers are being handled. A lot. Because I love poker chips. All of them, not just the shiny ones.

Man, this thread fired me up. LOL

I intend to use all my chips, but my games aren't always regular, so I don't always get the chance to.

Sometimes I use them for little family games if I have to, but it can be infrequently.

Even if I never intended to play poker again, I'd still keep a few sets. I just love chips

 

[Jeevansluck]

If I buy something, it's my perrogative it gets used or not.

 

[JRReynolds6181]

If I buy something, it's my perrogative it gets used or not.

Totally. I just see it a lot. Makes me wonder if this is about love of the hobby or trading commodities.

It’s like how people keep their Star Wars figures in the box so they don’t get devalued. Knock yourself out. I just think that makes them more of a commodity than something you’ve used, loved, etc - ever see Toy Story 2? LOL

I’m just trying to put my finger on what doesn’t quite feel right and why people get the sense that a community feel is dying.

 

[Jeevansluck]

Totally. I just see it a lot. Makes me wonder if this is about love of the hobby or trading commodities.

It’s like how people keep their Star Wars figures in the box so they don’t get devalued. Knock yourself out. I just think that makes them more of a commodity than something you’ve used, loved, etc - ever see Toy Story 2? LOL

I’m just trying to put my finger on what doesn’t quite feel right and why people get the sense that a community feel is dying.

I hear ya. I'm still new, and I have sold some unplayed Jacks.

That said, it was because I bought too many, was reaching for primary and secondary Tournament sets.

So I sold some new stuff. I am more of a collector. I do plan to put down ALL my chips over the next 5 or 6 months as I take a huge step back from buying.

This is a great thread. At least it's good to try to talk about the stuff that is bothering us.

I LOVE my time on PCF. I've maybe been lucky with who I've come across, but I hope I'm not being branded as a flipper or someone who is trying to just make profit. I've lost money on all my chips with Shipping, re-shipping, and International fees factored in.

I also saw the post by @slisk250 , and I want to be sure I'm not on his list of members who won't be at his games

I'm a good person, but this hobby is whacko

 

[Changster]

I hope I'm not being branded as a flipper or someone who is trying to just make profit.

Highly doubt this my friend. I think you are one of the new people like me that paid up. LOL.

 

[slisk250]

Totally. I just see it a lot. Makes me wonder if this is about love of the hobby or trading commodities.

It’s like how people keep their Star Wars figures in the box so they don’t get devalued. Knock yourself out. I just think that makes them more of a commodity than something you’ve used, loved, etc - ever see Toy Story 2? LOL

I’m just trying to put my finger on what doesn’t quite feel right and why people get the sense that a community feel is dying.

solid question...some of us retards buy so many chip sets that we couldn’t get them in play. If I host 20 times a year it would still take a couple years to get them in use once.

 

[Mr Winberg]

There's only so many "how do you feel about big blind antes" threads

These always seem to bring us together

 

[BGinGA]

solid question...some of us retards buy so many chip sets that we couldn’t get them in play. If I host 20 times a year it would still take a couple years to get them in use once.

^ yes, this is a definite reality for some of us.

Sets, racks to make mixed sets, more racks to make interchangeable sets, different racks to replace racks in mixed sets, different sets to replace other sets..... it's a never-ending cycle.

And when you've fallen in love with them, it's hard to let them go, even after you realize that they probably won't ever have a chance to see table time. And the more you let go, the harder it becomes to let go of what remains.

Chip hoarding is real, and has absolutely nothing to do with making a profit. But I'm trying to get better.

 

[Taghkanic]

More than 20 years ago, I wrote an opinion piece for a WIRED-owned publication predicting that the interwebs was going to push everyone to turn their hobby into a business. Vindicated!

 

[FordPickup92]

^ yes, this is a definite reality for some of us.

Sets, racks to make mixed sets, more racks to make interchangeable sets, different racks to replace racks in mixed sets, different sets to replace other sets..... it's a never-ending cycle.

And when you've fallen in love with them, it's hard to let them go, even after you realize that they probably won't ever have a chance to see table time. And the more you let go, the harder it becomes to let go of what remains.

Chip hoarding is real, and has absolutely nothing to do with making a profit. But I'm trying to get better.

Ben and I have this problem x100 lol I try to take my children (I typed chips my phone auto corrected to children lol) to games just to get them out into the light

 

[hdgeno]

Highly doubt this my friend. I think you are one of the new people like me that paid up. LOL.

You came in swinging for the fences. A little patience would have certainly saved you some cash, but you knew what you wanted and got it.

I’ve been chipping for 11.5 years, but I’ve only kept good records in the last couple years. I shudder to think of how much chipping actually cost me over the years, the little bit of money I’ve made in the last 2ish years pales in comparison to what I would have lost earlier. And that’s fine/normal, a hobby usually will cost money.

 

[HMK]

I've had the pleasure of dealing with a bunch of diffrent members and vendors here and I really enjoy this forum. Geting my own custom set has always been a dream, even way back when i bought my first set. It's been so long since i was on chiptalk, can't even remember what user name i had. I think it was less dealing between members and more about buying sets from vendors or having custom sets created. Also i remember it as having more threads discussing hand history and such. That said, i think i have enjoyed my time here on pcf more. There is a lot of fair, careing and generous members here. There is probobly some that are not as well, no doubt.

But i don't know, it's still about the members. And there are a lot of great ones here. I felt a lot of joy selling my cdis to people that will appriciate them.

Some prices are crazy, and power to you guys who can afford them, i for the most part can not. And honestly, when i pay sun-fly and msk now i will pretend it's not real money, haha. I'm not so bothered by members selling for profit, but having your own sales thread dropped a couple of pages because some sellers have a dozen diffrent classifieds at once was a bit annoying.

 

[SiouxperStack]

I wasn't around in the CT days, but the market is completely different for sure. The days of chips in high supply and low demand is gone. I heard thechiproom had some crazy sales to get rid of their secondary PCA 25$ for something like 60c ea? Crystal Parks 1k/5k selling for 1-2$ ea, and now it's like 20$+ ea. It's a different time now, more people interested in buying chips and lower supply. I appreciate reading the forums daily, both the classifieds and the rest. Looking for cool chips to buy, and looking at many cool projects people are making. Relabel sets, milling jobs, sunfly custom designs, GBs... I think there's a lot going on.

When it comes to price of chips, I honestly don't blame people for profiting on sales. In an ideal world there would be enough awesome leaded, shaped inlaid, colorful, THC Paulsons to go around for everybody, but that's not the case. They are scarce in demand items. The problem with selling chips super cheap openly on the forum is that many of the buyers will just flip the chips down the line. You are basically just throwing away money. As long as there are people who is willing to pay top dollar, I understand why people ask it.

When I bought my Jack chips from thechiproom sale, it was because I genuinely wanted them and loved the colors and spots. I didn't plan on selling them. It was a pretty big purchase for me, as I don't have that high disposable income, and so 1500$ is quite a lot and I had to sell other chips to fund the purchase. I was super happy when I got them in hand! After a while, people start paying crazy amounts for these chips, and they regularly sold for far higher prices in the classifieds then in thechiproom sale. I figured at the money they were fetching I could exchange my set of jacks for a THC set consisting of relabeled AS chips and PCA chips. Technically I didn't trade, but sold my jacks and bought the other chips. Does it make me a flipper? Maybe I guess, but then again if the prices of the jacks didn't increase that much I wouldn't have sold, and my intention when buying the jacks was not to flip. A PCA relabel set is worth more to me than a Jack set, but to others it was apparently worth the same, so to me it was a no-brainer to trade up.

The way I see it, as long as people are willing to pay high prices I understand that people are asking for it. Is it sad for me because I won't ever have a set of BTP or SB chips? For sure. Still I can't blame the sellers. If @Lemonzest sold the SB chips at 2.5$ each. How long would it take for people to start flipping and the prices would reach the prices they are currently at?

You make a good point. There seems to be many ways for people to "flip" chips: harvesting, e-bay, GBs, Discounted sales, etc. I don't see a problem with selling chips for what the market will pay for those chips, like in your case. If anyone here buys a rack of mint green chips on e-bay for $90 and sells them to me for $130 I will pay you the 130 and thank you for it.

 

[BarrieJ3]

If anyone here buys a rack of mint green chips on e-bay for $90 and sells them to me for $130 I will pay you the 130 and thank you for it.

I get it. Bringing chips into the community has a value. Shit, my favorite chips are VGC to Near Mint casino chips. My LCOs are my favorite. I love the Outposts. Working on a set of Aztar indiana secondary’s. I of course want them, and I’ll of course make you a little money (along with everyone else) for grabbing the 20k chips.

But no, please don’t outbid me on that eBay offering, to literally offer it back on here at a increased price and bump for three weeks. You didn’t do anything, you didn’t add value. If you’re going to do this, get your shit out the classifieds and grab a vendor status. And no, this is not aimed at any one person, I’ve just seen it a bit, and it frustrates me. Shit, it’s why I’ve started offering $ kickbacks when I win an item from eBay that was originally shared on here. Small finders fee and thanks for being value add.