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When did this hobby change (2 Viewers)

After thinking about this I realized (at least for me) it's not really the number of sale threads or the prices, it's what it represents for the time I choose to spend on a forum.

I LOVED seeing the star sets comes through. Then I loved seeing the circus chips come through. And for 6 months...that's ALL I saw. Screw the prices and sale threads...not for me, and I can ignore.

Then I don't sign on for a week...WTB Star WTS Star WTB Star WTS Star etc etc etc...Repeat with circus. By the time the sunset beach hit PCF I was ready to log off again regardless of the chips just because of the classified spam.

This is of course on top of the already regular sale thread for sets that I've seen repeatedly for 15 years.

It's not necessarily about the classified spam, it's just so f'n boring.
 
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Part of it though is the nature of a forum like this - it is about the finding and trading. There's only so many "how do you feel about big blind antes" and "what do you think of my tourney structure" threads that can come up. Everyone once in a while we get a @Hammer2171 or a hard candy hold'em.

And I think most people who are into this hobby tend to be obsessive for a while with things, and then get obsessive about something else. Doesn't surprise me that active members would ebb and flow.
 
As a new member, I'm not sure how to feel about this thread. Most PFCers I have encountered have been very helpful.
I regret being late to the game. I thought I was a couple of months late, after more research I thought maybe years late. Now I'm not sure. I hate to think that my willingness to purchase chips has somehow led to the decline of anyones favorite activity. (That activity being bullshitting and busting balls.) I treated this hobby as many new collectors do, by jumping in with both feet. I've only purchased or inquired about chips that I truly have a desire to own.
 
I agree with what @BGinGA posted about The Chip Room sales and the associated flippers changing the hobby a lot. The next big change though was certainly the NAGB chips, like it or not that changed the hobby as much as anything has.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy those chips were made and that they came to market (I'd be happier still if I'd gotten them at NAGB prices). The change was very obvious even though many purchased to keep them, some immediately flipped for profit. The problem is that for true chippers the idea of semi-custom Paulsons was a dream for a very long time. There were enough of us to drive those prices up. I was lucky enough to get into some of the Star chips for pretty good prices, and paid out the butt for some as well. The dream almost became a nightmare as the prices just kept going up, to the point where I didn't even really want to play with them as they were worth way too much.

I've sold almost all of the Star chips I purchased, and the ones I have left haven't cost so much as to inhibit me playing with them. The only chips I've ever made money on have been the Star/SB chips, and it's not much of a profit after all is said and done, just enough to bring the average cost of what I'm keeping at reasonable levels.

Seeing recent ads for Star and BTP chips made me realize I'm done in this hobby. There's hardly any chips I can afford anymore, and the ones I can either don't do it for me or get snapped up before I ever see them. It's sad, I'll miss chipping but I just can't compete with the big wallets on this site. There's no way to justify dropping a few months salary for some pretty circles.

I'd love nothing more to get a set of reasonably priced Paulson chips, custom or semi-custom, and keep them for the rest of my life. But paying $5+/chip is just not in my range anymore, no matter how beautiful and well designed they are. That's what sucked me in to start with, chips designed by actual chippers, and the chips they've produced have been nothing short of epic!
 
BukNaked36 said:
I always kind of like it when the NAGB teams pull one off.

I thought the AS and PS buy was especially interesting - good poker chip nerd success story of getting one over on the THE MAN.

I'm just glad it continues to be a happening site and I enjoy seeing all the chips come and go.
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I'm with you on this. I'm excited for "Team PCF" when a NAGB happens, even if I'm not a part of it, for the same reasons as you.

Sadly the byproduct of this is inflated prices on the really nice sets for everyone unless you're in with the right people. It creates a bit of a division. I'm about 85% sure that there's a separate forum excluesively for the NAGB members. This makes sense but it also adds to the division as they could start discussions there that we're missing out on that could have easily had a home in public. Just my speculation. I also speculate that every time I see a sample set of a NAGB set in classifieds that the seller is like "I need $100, better sell 6 of my 4000 chips". *takes foil hat off.

There's still a great community here and lots of opportunity to get great sets at a fine price in the actual group buy section of PCF.
 
justsomedude said:
I really hope that's not true. :(

You will be missed.
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I don't know if I can actually completely leave this hobby, reading PCF has literally just become part of my life now and I'd really miss a lot of the folks on the forums.

Buying/selling chips though probably won't be sustainable for me though (unless I win a lottery, then I'm going crazy!). The kid is not cheap (you certainly know this as well) and with my wife on mat-leave there is just less money.
 
krafticus said:
So, when did this go from a hobby to a business. Should everyone become a vendor? For some members, the ONLY threads they generally post are “for sale”
Threads. Maybe I’m just bitter. Maybe im an ass, .. whatever.

I click “new posts”, and 7 of the top 10 posts are all sale ads.

Am I wrong? Off base? Prove me wrong
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I think it changed when the Horseshoe Cleveland flipping of Jim's chiproom sale was a thing here. The anti flipping vocal folks were in the minority. It was also a much smaller group of chippers in the PCF time before that sale. Then the frenzy and greed that some members exhibited for NAGB chips fueled the fire.

Edit: I also think it is hard for anyone not around then to be able to fully understand where Krafty is coming from.
 
For 10 years or more custom ASM’s have been my grail set. Back even when you could only get 312 spots. Could never justify the cost. Still hardly can. Finally made that happen over the holidays, with delivery coming this spring-ish. I was able to make it happen in part by helping others’ projects see the light of day. Sure I’m compensated, but I can tell you my day job pays much better :).

That creativity and spirit that @krafticus mentions is still there, I think you just have to sift through some noise.

I’m in the minority, but the recent Paulson buys don’t do much for me even at $2 per, let alone $10. $2-3 per for custom CPC’s is an outrageous luxury, and those for us with the ability to light that much dough on fire for something that provides incrementally better utility than the slugged chips the masses use, should recognize that.

For me, my interaction with PCF has been overwhelmingly positive. Both before and after the watershed moments previously mentioned.

My biggest gripe? Get me some damn faux clays again. Like jeez.
 
Changster said:
It’s all my fault... sorry guys. :D
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1580363633117.gif
 
CraigT78 said:
I think it all changed when @jbutler and @bergs left, with several others. Those guys fostered some good content and trolled the flippers.

And a hot dog is still not a sandwich.
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I very much considered those two gate keepers. I remember being so intimidated by butlers CT avatar and his posts that I spent probably a year (maybe more) lurking in the shadows because I didn’t want my first post to be so stupid that I got the full one/two punch of those two. Actually had I not been buzzed and wanting someone’s custom chip samples I wouldn’t have created an account. Sad you really should remember your first but can’t think of who’s chips it was. :) Also crazy to think that happened just over five years ago. All that being said I have met great people @krafticus who posted this being one of many, not going to list them. I actually started taking random screenshots of activity to see if or how much membership increases. But at the end of the day I have a pretty strict limit on what I’m willing to spend for chips, others might have a higher threshold but I personally can not justify.
 
I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be a good way to sell chips that won't piss off somebody, if not many somebodies. Maybe this could use its own thread.

Most of my own purchases and sales have been accomplished via private messages or emails. Sure, I've probably left money on the table on my sales, but I've also gotten some sweet deals as a buyer. The major downside to the community, IMO, is that price information is kept private, and the information is hidden from others when they need to research transactions.

Auctions make the most sense to me in a volatile market -- let the buyers set the price. For the most part, I don't consider auctions to be money grabs.

This community changes over time. It's a natural process. However, keep in mind that, as @BGinGA has observed many times, "You can check out any time you like, But you can never leave!" (Hotel California, the Eagles, 1977)* Or, as my sister has observed, "They always come back. It might take years, but they always come back."

*1977? OMG that was a long time ago!
 
I agree with a lot of the sentiment here. It seems there have been some newbies that have come around in the recent past and have thrown crazy stupid money at chips. Greed kicks in by the flippers and many chips become unobtainable to the little guys. The new, hot chips come out, they’re flipped like crazy, and then those with deeper pockets are the only ones that can afford them. When those individuals turn around to try and sell what they have sometimes grossly overpaid for, then we see them in the classifieds for months on end with incessant bumps.

What’s happened in just the past couple weeks with the sales is pretty mind blowing. Someone winning an auction, with little to no competition in the auction for the chips, turning and putting the chips in the classifieds for over 33% more than what they were won at the day they were received. The chips don’t sell, the chips are bumped at an annoying rate, yet still sit in the classifieds day after day.

The NAGB chips are a story all their own. Chip sets being listed at about 10x what they were paid for, profit mongering beyond belief, and even users that have been adamantly against flipping getting in on the game of maximizing every last penny they can extract.

I’m in the anti-flipping boat, but I do view some of the flippers different than others. There are those that come across a good score and re-sell at prices that have people lined up to get them, while there are others that score a chip find, put them in the classifieds for stupid amounts, and then have to drop prices six times a day for 10 months to try to get the chips sold.

The flippers seem to win out, though. There are plenty of users, with the majority seeming to be newer users, that will rush to pay the stupid prices because they just can’t live without the chips. As long as that goes on, the greed will continue to overflow. Unfortunately, I don’t see any hope of that changing anytime soon.
 
Never felt any change. Just a total newbie when looking at how far back this thing goes and when compared to other members who are senior.

What a blur!!! Only in the last few weeks, I've realized just how far I've come and how far I've strayed from my purpose here. I came here to learn of better poker chips than dice chips and I kind of went a bit too far with it and really lost control. I don't even know where it began, oh right, paying nearly $5/chip for used good condition Pharaoh's. They are so easy to fall in love with when you don't know shit about this stuff

I suppose I have no baseline idea for what the experience here is supposed to be. I've got to say that I've made friends here. Yesterday, I talked to a user who just had a baby boy and we talked of life, our wives, and maybe some chips too. A 55min phone call with someone who has shown me, a complete stranger, immense kindness and generosity. I've made local PCFer friends. I got myself introduced to 2 new home games through here. @grantc54 @allforcharity @T_Chan @realcdn @LotsOfChips @Frank EDIT : @Lemonzest are all friends to me now, all poker aside. Hard to believe but PCF has bore tremendous fruit beyond the chips. I started up my own home game and have some of these members playing in my game. It's going to net me lifelong friendships. What a place! I'm planning a trip in the summer this year across the country, to visit with other PCFers I've forged friendships with. Super excited, how cool will that be?!?

Recently though, I've seen an increase number of high priced sales. This has really put an inexplicable fear into me. I'm feeling I made a very grave error in some of the chips I have and what I paid for them. Not going to lie. I'm a bit freaked out for the last couple weeks. It's made me pull my wallet right out if the mix.

Complete stoppage. Assessment of what chips I have, assessment of damages to my bank, and start the rebuilding process. I need to rediscover the person I was before finding all these Paulsons. It's hard to do. The addiction to buying chips is real and I'm having difficulty with it, but I will succeed. I'm not going to get owned by clay discs.

What of all my chips? I feel even if I listed them, nobody will buy them for the prices I paid. I don't know for certain obviously, I haven't listed a premium set before. It's a scary thought if I needed to sell but market didn't allow though.

For me, didn't know the hobby changed. Just seems the chips are getting out of reach for me. I've got a few bucks and do okay in my life, but this place has me tapping out!

LOVE THE FORUM! There is too much other stuff to keep me interested as long as I am playing poker, and I plan to play for a long while.
 
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I admit it: I obtain chips for whatever decent price I can get and I sell them for (what I think is) a reasonable profit. Have done so ever since I realized there's a market for these sorts of things. Have tried to keep my eyes and ears open, hunting things down that I think someone would want. Trying to get chips into the hands of chippers. All the while learning things along the way, talking to fellow hobbyists, meeting the locals, even learning to play a little poker. Funneling all my profits (which is the closest I'll ever get to "meager poker winnings" because I just suck at NLHE) to help defer costs for my charity events. Gotten a lot of good support from a lot of good people. Been burned a couple times. Participated in auctions. Participated in raffles. Tried to help raise some money for others. Asked for a lot of help in getting my projects completed. Nothing that a few hundred PCF members hasn't done (or experienced) at one time or another.

One thing I'm sticking to: I've vowed NEVER to deal with, or in, any of the GPI-sourced NAGB chips. Sorry, but not sorry, as a seller I don't want to be even remotely perceived to have price-gouged either the clueless or the desperate, considering all the baggage surrounding these things. Not doing it because of any dreams or yearnings of a chip utopia, because I've got nothing apart from my 2 year history here. That, and my mistakes, my successes, and my integrity.

The hobby hasn't changed. Some people's perception of the hobby has changed.

"The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." - B. Joel, "Keeping The Faith"
 
RichMahogany said:
It’s difficult to pin down exactly when the shift occurred, but I feel that the major influx of newer members has something to do with it.
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I wouldn’t disagree, but I’d hope we have a strong enough community and similar sense of direction to guide them. I rolled in a year ago with some money to spend, but had never had a chip worth having or heard of shaped inlays.

Lol I made one little “looking for big cash set” with no parameters and some money to spend. The amount of PCFers that came out of the woodwork to sell this new guy something was crazy. Good, solid PCFers with good reputations who I see helping people on the reg and who have helped me since. But in that moment, they were all ready to rape me. I was amazed that I saw the same chips they offered me at in the classifieds a week later at 50% the cost. What a shitty introduction by fire. Detroitdad was a godsend for a new chipper with questions.

edit: I’ve also done a random one or two, rediculous price or free offering on something that wasn’t selling at normal cost for a new member or some criteria, cause I’m not gonna go through the bullshit of bumping everyday or lowering and haggling.
Lo and behold here comes someone with an account from 2015 I’ve never seen logged in, grabs it, and hasn’t logged in since. Might be legit, but given everything else, sketchy things like this turn you off.
 
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Zmasterben said:
worst of all other people's custom sample sets that there were originally gracious enough to offer to the community at or near cost. Instead of just selling them, auctioning them off to try and squeeze out a few extra dollars. I almost started a thread discussion if people should even be allowed to sell other people's custom samples for above cost
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Definitely feel like we can start here for most egregious actions. It got bad enough I said fuck it, and sold off all the custom samples that I obtained in that manner, because the collection didn’t feel organic (oh and was questioned for this hilariously enough). I’m fine paying $50 for a wonderpuddle semi custom directly to him, but’s it’s bullshit paying those prices to someone who got chips for cheap on a sample thread.
 
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Zmasterben said:
There was a point late last year when people were auctioning off individual sample sets for $40-80 like crazy. Common sets like boat chips, old Chiproom sets, and worst of all other people's custom sample sets that there were originally gracious enough to offer to the community at or near cost. Instead of just selling them, auctioning them off to try and squeeze out a few extra dollars.
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Yeah...

I appreciate it when a member who bought an Exit Only Lounge sample at my cost offers it back when they decide to sell all their sample sets. There have been several veteran members do this over the last few years. That is a cool way to handle it. I only offered samples once because that's what you did. (2015 in this case) I learned for myself that doing samples is a royal PITA with shipping, payments, addresses...never again. But I will auction a spare sample I have here or there. If someone wants to pay me a bunch for one, that is just fine. It is a market.
 
I think we need criteria... I know alot of stuff has to be operated by the admins/moderators but I feel like we need a way to control some of the "problems" were having. I definitely agree, if there was a way to limit the number of sale ads individuals can make, and the amount of bumps each ad gets that may make things more pleasant. It would likely piss people off, but you can't please everyone in the world. I'm all for new members joining, posting and learning, reaching out for help.... but they almost need a welcome packet on day one. Different mouths tell them different things (naturally) but at the end of the day someone somewhere along the line tells them a nice story and ultimately price gouges them on one of their first purchases.
When I first joined an introductory "pamphlet" retaining some basic knowledge of abbreviations and key words with definitions as well as some basic rules (how dibs works, current/average costs of market chips, the purpose of auctions and how they work, what is inflation in the chip market and how can we help control it as a community) understanding chip basics (the types/descriptions and valuations) would have immensely helped me out. I understand that takes time to create and apply to each new member...just a thought I've had. Something I could consider creating and passing on I guess. I also feel like we need a basic 10 person questionnaire, sure people will lie lol but if you get yes answers to: I like making money and do not care how it affects a community ..... maybe we should reconsider that person's open access to the community lol I know none of this is really plausible, I just sometimes get carried away in my thoughts. I know a handful of moderators have their tables full with watching the multi thousand members here as well as their own personal lives so making changes is really here nor there. And the site is run exceptionally well considering how much content truly exists here, so I am far from complaining. I understand we cannot change the functions of the forum and how it affects the community, but I do agree that staying together as a unit and having a basic following of dos and don'ts helps minimize some things. We cant make everyone follow the rules, I know that, it sucks. 85% of us opt not to pay inflated prices and the 15% that don't know any better or dont care keep it alive. It's also hard taking a loss, it's a viscous cycle I understand it. I way overpaid for PCA secondary 500s, I will likely never see out what I paid for them, but, I will also likely never sell them. So oh well, learned my lesson (be patient and do research!!!!!!) And I move forward trying to help as many new members as I can.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
But in that moment, they were all ready to rape me. I was amazed that I saw the same chips they offered me at in the classifieds a week later at 50% the cost.
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I’ve experienced this as well, albeit not to the same degree. I’ve been offered flipper prices on some chips via PM, declined, and the next day they were offered in the classifieds for less than what was offered to me. The first time I’ve used the “Ignore” feature on a member.

It has also made me not want to post Wanted ads anymore, because it’s like you’re putting a big target on your back for those wanting to profit.

Thankfully I’ve been able to buy chips/buttons/plaques/cut cards etc. from many members that weren’t trying to squeeze me for max profit, several of whom threw in freebies just because.

And I’m glad to have met & played poker with several members in the area. When I first joined I thought “meetups” were crazy - why travel across the country just to play poker with a bunch of chip nerds? I’m starting to get it now, and just wish I had more time/opportunity to attend these events.
 

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