Cash Game Ruling Assistance (2 Viewers)

Does anybody else act as the dedicated dealer at their home games, or am I crazy?
You’re crazy. Dealing the entire time while playing really stinks. Especially if you are dealing with games where you have to keep track of pot sizes. I find it difficult to focus on dealing and keeping the game moving while playing my hands at the same time. We rotate the deal in our games, although some of us want to switch to a dedicated dealer.
 
No it's a $3-$6 FL dealer's choice game - many games are stud, draw and/or split pot games - which take a bit of time per hand. Our guy is actually very good at dealing and managing the game to the point he should get a job at Gun Lake Casino... he usually knocks down $120-$150 plus tips for dealing 6-7 hours.

Sometimes, as players depart he'll jump into the game toward the end of the night too.

The logic is that a $1 rake per hand is far better than $6+ at the casino for the same level of experience.



I didn't mean that as a criticism... I'm sure the bourbons might have affected your wording :) My only point was that a dedicated dealer makes the experience better for everyone. Come to one of my games sometime and see for yourself! That said, I've enjoyed the game, the people and the experience every time you've been gracious enough to invite me - so please don't think your generosity isn't appreciated.

It didn't sound like a criticism the first 17 times that you brought it up ;) Seriously though. I didn't take any offense to it. Its all good. There are only a few small errors a night with a self dealt game. I'm fine with than. With dealers choice games, finding a dealer that is competent in those games that would be a challenge.

I've played in DC games that had a dedicated dealer and there was more mistakes than ever.
 
How did I know you'd weigh in, @BGinGA? Did you bring @Gobbs? I know it's a hot button with him too from back in the HPT days.

-- I pay dealers a flat rate $15/hr for dealing tournaments plus most winners tip around 10% of their net winnings, which works out to about $120-$150 for a six hour event.

What limits are you playing where the aggregate of all winners is $300-$600? And why are your dealers making as much or more than your winning players (assuming the big winner is 25% to 50% of the aggregate table win)? That's insane.

Each time I play, I give 10% to one of my family members (wife or kids) depending on which card cover I'm using. And I tip out the house too for hosting. Add another 10% to the dealer and now I'm taking home 70¢ on the dollar and all losses are on me. At our stakes and with our player pool (which range from competent to excellent at dealing for the most part), I'll save that 10%.

and a lot more hands with fewer mistakes got played than ever possible with pass-the-deal.

This is indisputable, however. @Marc Hedrick is am excellent dealer. (I think I first met you when you dealt an Ypsi game to earn enough tips to buyin.) Anyway, the game definitely moves smoother when Marc has the deck.

I'm not rich, but as a player, I do have more money than patience for poorly-dealt games.

Maybe that's the big difference. No one in our group is a poor dealer. Or maybe we define "poor dealer" differently.
 
I agree with MM here -- I pay dealers a flat rate $15/hr for dealing tournaments plus most winners tip around 10% of their net winnings, which works out to about $120-$150 for a six hour event.

I used to deal a local regular's cash game: it was a ten-player dealer's choice 25c/50c pot limit, 1/2 NLHE, 3/6 limit rotation game. $100 buy-ins ($95 in chips on first buy-in only for food rake), so $950 on the table to start and usually $2000+ total by end of session. I worked for tips only and usually made $120-$150 for six hours work. Nobody complained, and a lot more hands with fewer mistakes got played than ever possible with pass-the-deal.

I'm not rich, but as a player, I do have more money than patience for poorly-dealt games. I think a dedicated dealer is the much better solution for almost every home game, regardless of stakes -- it runs faster, more smoothly, and with fewer disputes. Big wins all around for a minimal cost per player.

Was this 20 years ago? I’d be very hard pressed to find a quality dealer that can run a game properly and efficiently for 6-8 hours for $120 to $150.

The shit dealers at the casino make that and you couldn’t pay me to let them deal my game. The good dealers at the casino are making $30 to $40 an hour.

You get what you pay for and I’m not for wasting money on a crappy dealer just to say I have a dealer.
 
You’re crazy. Dealing the entire time while playing really stinks. Especially if you are dealing with games where you have to keep track of pot sizes. I find it difficult to focus on dealing and keeping the game moving while playing my hands at the same time. We rotate the deal in our games, although some of us want to switch to a dedicated dealer.

hahaha, I just might be! It's interesting, it really doesn't bother me. In fact I kind of like it. I am a bit of a control freak, so I like to be the one that keeps the game moving, check pot sizes, count chips, etc.

Also I've been doing it for about 15 years so I may just be used to it. When my friends and I first started we did rotate the deal, but they were just terrible at dealing so I took over and it's been that way ever since. But I will say that on the rare occasion I get to go to the casino and experience just being a player it is a very nice change.
 
I think a dedicated dealer is the much better solution for almost every home game, regardless of stakes
I think I'd be playing for a massive loss if I paid a dealer $120 in a 5¢-10¢ cash game, or a $20 tourney.

Not that I don't enjoy a dedicated dealer. In our league, a player that gets eliminated but decides to deal for the table afterwards earns points toward Hall of Fame eligibility.
 
I made more dealing a local $5/$5 game than I think the hourly of a decent player would be in that game. People overtip. Not going to complain. As a matter of fact, I'd suspect dealing most 1/2 and 2/5 games is more lucrative than playing in them even if you are a winner.

As to the OP and RroP ruling, it's important to note that there is no "correct flop" until the cards have been seen. This, in addition to the random method just being the easiest for all scenarios, also uses the fact that until you saw and knew the order of the cards, you had no idea what they would be.

It's the same infuriating issue when a stud player gets all upset when they receive a card that someone that folded would have gotten. It's all nonsense. A face down card is random until you see it. I know physically it isn't random, but that doesn't matter. That face down card could have been any card you haven't seen yet.
 
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It's the same infuriating issue when a stud player gets all upset when they receive a card that someone that folded would have gotten. It's all nonsense. A face down card is random until you see it. I know physically it isn't random, but that doesn't matter. That face down card could have been any card you haven't seen yet.
Unless you are playing blackjack. I'm pretty sure blackjack players believe your last hit/stand was the devil itself if the dealer hits.

I won't play blackjack at a table with other players anymore because they get so bent out of shape because of the "next" card. :rolleyes:
 
Unless you are playing blackjack. I'm pretty sure blackjack players believe your last hit/stand was the devil itself if the dealer hits.

I won't play blackjack at a table with other players anymore because they get so bent out of shape because of the "next" card. :rolleyes:
Blackjack players are the worst. I can see a card counter getting a little annoyed if you didn't hit when you likely should just so the counter could have the added info. But that is the only rare scenario where I can see caring about the next card.
 
I think a dedicated dealer is the much better solution for almost every home game, regardless of stakes -- it runs faster, more smoothly, and with fewer disputes. Big wins all around for a minimal cost per player.
I agree, except for micro stakes games.

We play $1/2 NL. We use a dealer for some of our cash games when she is available. She does a good job, very few mistakes. She rakes the pot $1 per hand plus tips. She averages around $250 per night. Everyone enjoys not having to deal, except for one player who complains she makes more than he does. Maybe he needs to play better.
 
How did I know you'd weigh in, @BGinGA? Did you bring @Gobbs? I know it's a hot button with him too from back in the HPT days.



What limits are you playing where the aggregate of all winners is $300-$600? And why are your dealers making as much or more than your winning players (assuming the big winner is 25% to 50% of the aggregate table win)? That's insane.

Each time I play, I give 10% to one of my family members (wife or kids) depending on which card cover I'm using. And I tip out the house too for hosting. Add another 10% to the dealer and now I'm taking home 70¢ on the dollar and all losses are on me. At our stakes and with our player pool (which range from competent to excellent at dealing for the most part), I'll save that 10%.



This is indisputable, however. @Marc Hedrick is am excellent dealer. (I think I first met you when you dealt an Ypsi game to earn enough tips to buyin.) Anyway, the game definitely moves smoother when Marc has the deck.



Maybe that's the big difference. No one in our group is a poor dealer. Or maybe we define "poor dealer" differently.
Was this 20 years ago? I’d be very hard pressed to find a quality dealer that can run a game properly and efficiently for 6-8 hours for $120 to $150.

The shit dealers at the casino make that and you couldn’t pay me to let them deal my game. The good dealers at the casino are making $30 to $40 an hour.

You get what you pay for and I’m not for wasting money on a crappy dealer just to say I have a dealer.
I think I'd be playing for a massive loss if I paid a dealer $120 in a 5¢-10¢ cash game, or a $20 tourney.

Not that I don't enjoy a dedicated dealer. In our league, a player that gets eliminated but decides to deal for the table afterwards earns points toward Hall of Fame eligibility.
Meh, blah blah..... different strokes for different folks. All I know is that for me, I'd much rather pay $10-$15 per six-hour evening for a decent dedicated dealer regardless of what cash stakes or tournament buy-in I'm playing for. I'm not gonna miss $2/hour nearly as much as I'd be miserable dealing with slow play and shit dealing found in most home games.
 
I made more dealing a local $5/$5 game than I think the hourly of a decent player would be in that game. People overtip. Not going to complain. As a matter of fact, I'd suspect dealing most 1/2 and 2/5 games is more lucrative than playing in them even if you are a winner.

As to the OP and RroP ruling, it's important to note that there is no "correct flop" until the cards have been seen. This, in addition to the random method just being the easiest for all scenarios, also uses the fact that until you saw and knew the order of the cards, you had no idea what they would be.

It's the same infuriating issue when a stud player gets all upset when they receive a card that someone that folded would have gotten. It's all nonsense. A face down card is random until you see it. I know physically it isn't random, but that doesn't matter. That face down card could have been any card you haven't seen yet.
No offense, but you're forgetting about the SOOTC, the Sacred Order of the Cards. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
No offense, but you're forgetting about the SOOTC, the Sacred Order of the Cards. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
Yep. Every time I run into somebody who wants to chant the "makes no difference, random is random" mantra, I just start dealing the starting hands randomly -- dealing backwards, or skipping every other player, some folks get two cards at once, some players get cards from the middle of the deck, etc. When they protest, I just point out that "hey, it makes no difference -- random is random, so even more random must be better".

Changes their view on the sacred order of the shuffle every.single.time. :D
 
Yep. Every time I run into somebody who wants to chant the "makes no difference, random is random" mantra, I just start dealing the starting hands randomly -- dealing backwards, or skipping every other player, some folks get two cards at once, some players get cards from the middle of the deck, etc. When they protest, I just point out that "hey, it makes no difference -- random is random, so even more random must be better".

Changes their view on the sacred order of the shuffle every.single.time. :D

I’d be good with that ... after all, random is random! You’ll have to try that one on me sometime.
 
Yep. Every time I run into somebody who wants to chant the "makes no difference, random is random" mantra, I just start dealing the starting hands randomly -- dealing backwards, or skipping every other player, some folks get two cards at once, some players get cards from the middle of the deck, etc. When they protest, I just point out that "hey, it makes no difference -- random is random, so even more random must be better".

Changes their view on the sacred order of the shuffle every.single.time. :D
I would have no issue with cards getting dealt like that. Makes zero difference.
 
Have you ever read "If you give a mouse a cookie?"
Yes. Unfortunately we have a lot of mice in our game and some of them are shit dealers. I’ve tried to make it better, but they just suck.
 
Yep. Every time I run into somebody who wants to chant the "makes no difference, random is random" mantra, I just start dealing the starting hands randomly -- dealing backwards, or skipping every other player, some folks get two cards at once, some players get cards from the middle of the deck, etc. When they protest, I just point out that "hey, it makes no difference -- random is random, so even more random must be better".

Changes their view on the sacred order of the shuffle every.single.time. :D
The problem of course, is that you (or any human) isn't truly random. You could be selectively dealing particular cards as well. Unlikely, but the suspicion index goes way up when standardized rules are not followed.

Order of the cards ≠ order of the deal.
 
I’d be good with that ... after all, random is random! You’ll have to try that one on me sometime.

When we get down to 4 handed and it is 4 am and someone forgets to deal a card to someone or the deal is off by a seat because someone went to the bathroom we don’t give an F either. Everyone has the right number of cards, good, let’s play.
 
Seriously though, we have dedicated dealers in tourneys and cash games that deal for a flat rate plus tips, or they just rake around .50-1.00 per hand plus tips. Makes things so much easier.

Living in a sparsely-populated rural area, it would be nearly impossible for me to find two dealers regularly. I know a few guys who will deal for a base fee plus tips. But a decent proportion of the time, I’d expect to get a call an hour before with some from at least one of them saying they can’t make it because it’s snowing / I have the sniffles / my girlfriend wants to see a movie / my kid’s car broke down & I have to drive her to the night shift at Dunkin Donuts/etc.

So, I’m envious of those for whom supplying dealers would be the “easier” option.
 
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Anyway, back on rules... Say the same thing happens—but there is quick action on the flop before the lack of a burn is noticed.

(Using the OP’s description: Flop comes 9x9xAx, first to act instadonks, just before someone calls out that there was no burn.)

My initial thought is that the action may lock in the board, but I have to go check RRoP to verify...
 
First off, i don't think that is exactly how i worded it to mike lol. My goal is to deliver a fun, social evening of poker and conversation. If the guys want a professional experience they can choose to go to detroit. Most choose to come to my house. i guess I've been doing something right for the last decade.
You have poker too. I come for the food!
 
I certainly prefer dedicated dealers myself. (And I am always grateful when @inca911 pitches in at my games.) But it's probably worth pointing out paying dealers may (unfortunately) introduce legal risk in jurisdictions where home poker is tolerated as a "social game" so long as an "operator" doesn't profit. I don't like it either (all I will say without crossing into politics), but before assuming this is a good idea, one should assess the risk in your jurisdiction, and also be careful to what you admit in an internet forum.
 
I'm the dealer for 99% of the hands at my home game. I offer the table the ability to deal, I just have the greatest skill and my lack of mistakes keeps the deck in my hands.
 

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