Cash Game Ruling Assistance (1 Viewer)

[Dix]

I think that in my homegames the house rule will be that if there is consensus on which the burn card is, that card will be burnt.

Which is the common sense approach most stick to. If the burn card can be identified, treat it as any other accidentally exposed burn card.

What exactly is the point of this discussion?

See above.

But then a few insecure trolls got involved because those rules interfere with their belief in a perfect Utopian theoretical existence, and insist on attempting to prove how much smarter they are than the rest of us mere mortals who limit ourselves to the facts of reality here on planet Earth.

So, they're now trying to prove that a specific card... a specific card in a specific deck at a specific time mind you... may not have been the actual card you found when you tuned it over.... before you turned it over.

& if you don't get how that's possible, then you're just too stupid to get it.

Personally, I look at it as the "not being able to see the forest for the trees" syndrome... in reverse.

Oh. For a second here I thought we were talking about a card game with rules and structure.

My bad.

Now I’m gonna go drive around town and ignore all traffic lights. But maybe obey others. You know... from a randomness perspective.

Well played, sir

He is being clear. You disagree with the statements but Legend is offering a better way of viewing poker in general. I don’t know why you think it is trolling.

Probably because this was a discussion of rules & why they exist. A rule for a specific hand & specific situation, not an exercise in pin-headed mental masturbation encompassing theories of the universe & the meaning of life.

Deal a card face down. Turn it over. Say for example, it’s the 8 of hearts. Now think back. Before you turned it over, was it a 100% chance of being the 8 of hearts? You think obviously, of course it was. Cards don’t reprint themselves.

Exactly! Cards can't reprint themselves. Therefore, here on planet Earth in the real-world, for that specific deck, at that specific point in time, it could not be any other card.

Deck left unmolested, that card is, and will always be, the 8 of hearts.

Unless the order of the deck gets changed somehow... the physical order, not the theoretical order... that card, for that deck, at that time, will be the 8 of hearts.

It doesn't "become" the 8 of hearts when you turn it over. It was still the 8 of hearts when it was face down. You just didn't know it yet.

Unless you're a climate science denier, in which case ... never mind.

But then the question is... do we really have a 100% grasp on the science at this time? Or just arrogantly/ignorantly pretend we do.

 

[bigdonkey]

He also claims that "rules that preserve card order are pointless because the order doesn't actually exist."
Which is also utter bullshit. The deck's set randomized order after shuffling/cut does exist, and does matter -- and rules are in place to preserve it, like it or not.

Regarding the bolded - This is probably the point that is most divisive. Whether one thinks a set order of the cards matters, or ,so long as the odds of a particular card coming remain the same, the order of the cards can at some point be rearranged.

Regarding the italicized - Which rules exist specifically to preserve the order of the cards*, versus existing for procedural consistency? As @Poker Zombiestated upstream, it's probably easier to catch a cheat of you only have to catch him not dealing off the top of the deck vs. being able to deal from anywhere in the deck. I would think that is more the spirit of the rule than preserving order of the cards. If the TDA were to change the rule to where players were dealt both cards together, nothing about the way the game is played would change, yet the outcome of the hand would certainly be different than if dealt the standard way, one card at a time twice. So, this would seem to me to again be a matter of procedural consistency.

*We've discussed elsewhere the pre-exposed turn card, river becomes turn rule, which clearly exists to preserve the order of the cards as much as possible. Curious about any other rules which are as clear in their intention.

@pltrgyst Just read your response, so this is for you too.

 

[justsomedude]

Probably because this was a discussion of rules & why they exist. A rule for a specific hand & specific situation, not an exercise in pin-headed mental masturbation encompassing theories of the universe & the meaning of life.

 

[BGinGA]

Which rules exist specifically to preserve the order of the cards*

*We've discussed elsewhere the pre-exposed turn card, river becomes turn rule, which clearly exists to preserve the order of the cards as much as possible. Curious about any other rules which are as clear in their intention.

• rules that deal with an exposed card during the initial deal (substituted for the flop's burn card, so as to not interfere with the order of cards delivered to other players, or affect any cards subsequently dealt on the flop/turn/river)
• rules that deal with an improper burn, flop, turn, or river card -- in each case, an attempt is made to minimize the disruption to the intended cards for those positions (often specifically stating so)

Card order is only rearranged as a last resort, when no other solution is feasible.

True for both the TDA and RRoP rule sets.

 

[MrCatPants]

SACRED ORDER OF THE CARDS. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. REPENT, AND BE FORGIVEN

 

[pltrgyst]

....But then the question is... do we really have a 100% grasp on the science at this time? Or just arrogantly/ignorantly pretend we do.

We never have a 100% grasp on anything. All we can do is do the best we can with what we've got.

 

[bigdonkey]

We never have a 100% grasp on anything. All we can do is do the best we can with what we've got.

I've got a 100% grasp on something right now, and this thread is interrupting. Please refrain from replying to this thread for, say, the next 3 minutes. Thanks.

 

[Perthmike]

I think we should just play D&D style.

I will deal the whole game in my head and tell you what the cards are. Argument solved.

 

[bigdonkey]

I think we should just play D&D style.

I will deal the whole game in my head and tell you what the cards are. Argument solved.

Sacred order of the Dice!

 

[justsomedude]

I think we should just play D&D style.

I will deal the whole game in my head and tell you what the cards are. Argument solved.

 

[Dix]

We never have a 100% grasp on anything. All we can do is do the best we can with what we've got.

My thoughts exactly... so I figure I'll start worrying about it when my carbon footprint is as big as AlGore's.

Which is something I'm actively working on. My daily driver went from a 19mpg pickup to a 16mpg Lincoln Navigator. So I'm getting there as quick as I can.

Climate change.... meh.... this planet's climate has been changing since the day it was formed... long before we showed up.... & it'll keep changing long after we've gone the way of the Dodo & Dino.

In fact, the day this insignificant rock gets swallowed by the Sun, I'll go out on a limb & call that some pretty significant climate change. Want to know our future, take a trip to Venus.

Global cooling, ozone holes, global warming, as each target gets shot full of holes they change it to a new one.

In fact, for a bunch that claims to shun religion & embrace science, they're a pretty zealously religious horde. The religion of Scareology.

Come up with a theoretical super scary life-threatening scenario, claim your theory is not just theory, it's real. Then scare this sh*t out of a bunch of gullible fools by having your gospel preached in academia ling enough to garner a horde of "true believers". None of 'em can prove what they say is actually real, just as any devout Catholic can't prove the existence of God. But, they truly believe.

My solution is this.... if carbon dioxide is truly a planet killer, and you emit CO2 every time you exhale, then lead by example.... stop breathing!

Problem solved.

Any place else we can take this discussion? The polar ice cap melting? Peace in the Middle East?

 

[Mr Winberg]

Any place else we can take this discussion?

Since this topic for some reason is political rather than scientific, perhaps the politics forum is a good place for it? Or this thread, I mean it needs another topic before we finally move on to boat chips. I was thinking antes but climate change is perhaps better.

 

[BGinGA]

I dunno about boat chips, but the order of boat CARDS is always predetermined by a proper shuffle and cut.

 

[justsomedude]

My thoughts exactly... so I figure I'll start worrying about it when my carbon footprint is as big as AlGore's.

Which is something I'm actively working on. My daily driver went from a 19mpg pickup to a 16mpg Lincoln Navigator. So I'm getting there as quick as I can.

Climate change.... meh.... this planet's climate has been changing since the day it was formed... long before we showed up.... & it'll keep changing long after we've gone the way of the Dodo & Dino.

In fact, the day this insignificant rock gets swallowed by the Sun, I'll go out on a limb & call that some pretty significant climate change. Want to know our future, take a trip to Venus.

Global cooling, ozone holes, global warming, as each target gets shot full of holes they change it to a new one.

In fact, for a bunch that claims to shun religion & embrace science, they're a pretty zealously religious horde. The religion of Scareology.

Come up with a theoretical super scary life-threatening scenario, claim your theory is not just theory, it's real. Then scare this sh*t out of a bunch of gullible fools by having your gospel preached in academia ling enough to garner a horde of "true believers". None of 'em can prove what they say is actually real, just as any devout Catholic can't prove the existence of God. But, they truly believe.

My solution is this.... if carbon dioxide is truly a planet killer, and you emit CO2 every time you exhale, then lead by example.... stop breathing!

Problem solved.

Any place else we can take this discussion? The polar ice cap melting? Peace in the Middle East?

 

[Poker Zombie]

I won't tag/quote the person that this is directed toward, but I think it's safe to say that all but that one person will know which post I'm replying to when I say...

 

[Hornet]

PZ has me blocked, so I know it’s not me!