His Rule, not mine (2 Viewers)

[Jeevansluck]

WTF to getting some SBs!

Expensive! Okay fine! Dammit they are nice chips. (I got to handle some..so I have an idea)

But...then to pay an additional $150 to somebody named Toby?

Really? Seriously?

That's what PCF is about?

Something about the ad stinks. If I'm wrong and just stupid, so be it. At least I'm not forking over my hard earned dough to Toby.

 

[fish72s]

WTF to getting some SBs!

Expensive! Okay fine! Dammit they are nice chips. (I got to handle some..so I have an idea)

But...then to pay an additional $150 to somebody named Toby?

Really? Seriously?

That's what PCF is about?

Something about the ad stinks. If I'm wrong and just stupid, so be it. At least I'm not forking over my hard earned dough to Toby.

Don't drink and post.

 

[kmccormick100]

WTF to getting some SBs!

Expensive! Okay fine! Dammit they are nice chips. (I got to handle some..so I have an idea)

But...then to pay an additional $150 to somebody named Toby?

Really? Seriously?

That's what PCF is about?

Something about the ad stinks. If I'm wrong and just stupid, so be it. At least I'm not forking over my hard earned dough to Toby.

There's a backstory around some profiteering over artwork rights and what not. The classified ad is a passive-aggressive troll post. Carry on, maybe browse back to some threads before you joined.

 

[MatB]

I think theres more to it than just what the WTS ad said. Just a guess.

 

[grantc54]

On the plus side the inlays (on the T5K at least) peal right off the chip, no nail polish remover required. Solves any artwork issues.

 

[MatB]

If I designed something from scratch, and you paid me to use that design, that does not give you the right to allow others to use that design.
That permission would have to come from me.

If you designed something and paid me to put it into a graphics file, i think that you could then do what you like with it. its not my design.

 

[pltrgyst]

If I designed something from scratch, and you paid me to use that design, that does not give you the right to allow others to use that design. That permission would have to come from me.

That is not what is happening. This is a case of someone being hired to design a product and then trying to restrict the use or resale of that product -- which is illegal in most countries, including the US.

Sounds like @Toby has decided to retire from chip designing...

 

[MatB]

That is not what is happening. This is a case of someone being hired to design a product and then trying to restrict the use or resale of that product -- which is illegal in most countries, including the US.

Sounds like @Toby has decided to retire from chip designing...

Are you sure Toby requested payment for chips sold between 3rd and 4th parties? That kind of sounds like what Travis's sale was saying.

 

[Eloe2000]

I’m just a photographer, but I work with many creatives. Generally, when a creative is commissioned the commissioned work is licensed with a specific usage. So, generally speaking it would be customary to create the design for a specific set of chips. But I think the question that was arising here was whether the creative would be owed additional fees if the pieces which included the commissioned artwork were sold for a profit.

 

[liftapint]

Don't drink and post.

But then I’d never post! Lol

 

[MatB]

I’m just a photographer, but I work with many creatives. Generally, when a creative is commissioned the commissioned work is licensed with a specific usage. So, generally speaking it would be customary to create the design for a specific set of chips. But I think the question that was arising here was whether the creative would be owed additional fees if the pieces which included the commissioned artwork were sold for a profit.

I think it's a stretch to think Toby would somehow collect monies from people selling chips to each other. Or that he would even ask for compensation from a sale.
Thats why i think the whole FOR SALE ad was misleading.

 

[MatB]

But then I’d never post! Lol

I'm thinking of installing a breathalyzer that locks me out of the Classifieds

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

.

 

[Eloe2000]

I think it's a stretch to think Toby would somehow collect monies from people selling chips to each other. Or that he would even ask for compensation from a sale.
Thats why i think the whole FOR SALE ad was misleading.

Yeah for sure. And who knows what was really going on with these folks.

But I would point out that creatives generally would charge more money if their commission is being used for commercial purposes than personal use. I have no idea what happened, but if per se the SB chips were designed under the agreement they were being used for personal use and then he made 10,000 chips and sold them at a 5x+ profit immediately I think he would have a grievance with the person he had the agreement with. It would be Bs to try and collect from a third party who bought the chips for sure. Who knows what really happened though. Some salty drama though.

 

[MatB]

I'm not going assume i know what their deal was (lemon and toby)

Im going to get a beer.

 

[Eloe2000]

Always a good idea... unless you live in Australia and it’s 9am right now.

 

[toynoob]

WTF to getting some SBs!

Expensive! Okay fine! Dammit they are nice chips. (I got to handle some..so I have an idea)

But...then to pay an additional $150 to somebody named Toby?

Really? Seriously?

That's what PCF is about?

Something about the ad stinks. If I'm wrong and just stupid, so be it. At least I'm not forking over my hard earned dough to Toby.

Link please to the drama? I been working and missed it.

 

[Beakertwang]

Link please to the drama? I been working and missed it.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/sb-25k-barrel.46049/

 

[Lemonzest]

I dont know what is normal for graphic designers. I dont know about IP rights and all that.

 

[toynoob]

I paid Toby to be my designer for the SB chips. The inlay was 100% him. Toby helped me with colors and also provided a really nice inlay. I paid him for services rendered. We never discussed usage of the inlay art or who owns the art. As far as I am concerned people can do what they like.

I dont know what is normal for graphic designers. I dont know about IP rights and all that as this was my first time emoloying a designer.

Thanks for being open and honest! You in my book have been transparent as far as you are able too and I do appreciate that.

 

[MatB]

Ive paid as others have, to use the BTP Artwork for labels and other projects.

Its his artwork.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I paid Toby to be my designer for the SB chips. The inlay was 100% him. Toby helped me with colors and also provided a really nice inlay. I paid him for services rendered. We never discussed usage of the inlay art or who owns the art. As far as I am concerned people can do what they like.

I dont know what is normal for graphic designers. I dont know about IP rights and all that as this was my first time emoloying a designer.

Did you tell him you were going to order a bunch of extra chips to sell for a profit when you hired him?

 

[sheikh617]

I may not understand how the art market works legally, but I feel if I pay someone to make an inlay for me and I pay them in full for what they designed.. That shit is mine now lol. Just my two cents but I’m a noobie scrub donkey.

 

[Señor Tony]

Totally depends on the terms of the agreement between client and designer. A few standard terms below.

Option 1: The client assumes full reproduction rights upon payment for completed project.

Option 2: One time reproduction rights for the specified project, at the agreed fee, are granted to the client. Any other usage must be negotiated.

Option 3: All reproduction rights on the copyrighted work are retained by the designer. The work may not be reproduced in any form without consent from the designer.

 

[Darson]

By default, the copyright to the Art belong to the artist, even if the work was paid for. Of course the artist can assign these rights in the contract but if it’s not defined then the copyright belongs with them.

For example, if you pay a designer to design inlays for you and then subsequently want to use the design for a cut card, unless the rights were transferred to you, you have to get the designers permission to use the same design on cut cards.

 

[sheikh617]

I also think the SB chips sell for what they do due to the fact that they are mint Paulsons with highly favored colors and edge spots. I would 100% prefer my own inlay vs what's on there now, not that it doesn't look nice. The inlay isn't what drives the price to be +$5 a chip.

 

[Lemonzest]

I was planning to emulate "Ambassador Plaza" inlay and just keep it simple.

 

[Toby]

Good morning, PCF! It feels like there are a few things to clarify, so here we go.

Lemonzest engaged me to create a design for him. He paid for the creation of the design and for permission to get 1 set of cash and 1 set of tournament chips made through a gaming supplies manufacturer.

I own the artwork, so permission for other use resides with me.

I am not in receipt of any payment on the backend of Lemonzest's commercial venture, like a vig per chip sold or anything.

I initially said "No" to anyone getting labels made up against the backdrop of Lemonzest requesting that all SB images and info be removed from the forums for fear of repercussions following vendor contact.

Two members of PCF enquired about artwork use. I told them "No" but on checking with Lemonzest, he was no longer concerned about repercussions. So I contacted the two members and said we can look at creating labels.

There is a small artwork usage fee. This is the same as for BTP artwork use for label purposes and is paid by anyone wanting to get labels made up. This is separate to the cost of getting labels produced by, eg, Gear, to be clear. Contact your label producer for info on process/costs, etc.

For anyone paying market prices for Lemonzest's chips (unsure what this is, perhaps between $500-1,000 per rack), the independent cost of additional artwork use for labels or the creation of new SB denoms is not significant imo.

My advice to anyone buying or relabelling chips would be to factor my artwork usage cost into your budget planning. Please discuss with me first, before planning your set, so we can set expectations.

I elected to be paid for the SB job in chips. To date, I have not been paid for the work. But I am hoping chips will be received later this week or next through delivery to a third party, who will hold the chips intrust.

Lemonzest was concerned I'd sell chips to the community in competition with him. We have an agreement that he will clear his inventory and give the green light for my chips to be released to me.

I am not selling any chips - this agreement is for Lemonzest's peace of mind.

Apologies if my desire to get paid for the work I do is causing upset. And apologies for the "No labels" mix up. I was trying to look out for the best interests of others. The position has latterly been clarified and we now know (after this thread blew up) that we're good to make labels. Shoot me a pm if you're interested!

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Good morning, PCF! It feels like there are a few things to clarify, so here we go.

Lemonzest engaged me to create a design for him. He paid for the creation of the design and for permission to get 1 set of cash and 1 set of tournament chips made through a gaming supplies manufacturer.

I own the artwork, so permission for other use resides with me.

I am not in receipt of any payment on the backend of Lemonzest's commercial venture, like a vig per chip sold or anything.

I initially said "No" to anyone getting labels made up against the backdrop of Lemonzest requesting that all SB images and info be removed from the forums for fear of repercussions following vendor contact.

Two members of PCF enquired about artwork use. I told them "No" but on checking with Lemonzest, he was no longer concerned about repercussions. So I contacted the two members and said we can look at creating labels.

There is a small artwork usage fee. This is the same as for BTP artwork use for label purposes and is paid by anyone wanting to get labels made up. This is separate to the cost of getting labels produced by, eg, Gear, to be clear. Contact your label producer for info on process/costs, etc.

For anyone paying market prices for Lemonzest's chips (unsure what this is, perhaps between $500-1,000 per rack), the independent cost of additional artwork use for labels or the creation of new SB denoms is not significant imo.

My advice to anyone buying or relabelling chips would be to factor my artwork usage cost into your budget planning. Please discuss with me first, before planning your set, so we can set expectations.

I elected to be paid for the SB job in chips. To date, I have not been paid for the work. But I am hoping chips will be received later this week or next through delivery to a third party, who will hold the chips intrust.

Lemonzest was concerned I'd sell chips to the community in competition with him. We have an agreement that he will clear his inventory and give the green light for my chips to be released to me.

I am not selling any chips - this agreement is for Lemonzest's peace of mind.

Apologies if my desire to get paid for the work I do is causing upset. And apologies for the "No labels" mix up. I was trying to look out for the best interests of others. The position has latterly been clarified and we now know (after this thread blew up) that we're good to make labels. Shoot me a pm if you're interested!

But... but... I want to be mad at someone!!!

 

[David O]

WTF to getting some SBs!

Expensive! Okay fine! Dammit they are nice chips. (I got to handle some..so I have an idea)

But...then to pay an additional $150 to somebody named Toby?

Really? Seriously?

That's what PCF is about?

Something about the ad stinks. If I'm wrong and just stupid, so be it. At least I'm not forking over my hard earned dough to Toby.

Has nothing to do with PCF!