Cash Game I got slow rolled. And by a woman. (2 Viewers)

[upNdown]

This is kind of a multi-layered issue.
I was playing $1/$2 cash last night. Why? I don't know. I'm a tournament player. But that's another story.
This was a limpy, passive table, so we came to a river with four players and about $40 in the pot. The river card made the board 5,6,7,8. I was holding a suited A4 and was first to act. I lead out for $20, hoping nobody had a 9. Fold, Fold, last to act is a young woman who thinks for a bit then raises to $60. She'd been playing badly, playing any two cards, and had a habit of raising to $5 in late position, after half the table limped. So she didn't seem like much of a player and I thought there was a chance she was betting some two pair, or maybe she also had the idiot end of this straight.
So after thinking for a minute, I said "all right I call." As I was counting out the chips She said "Straight" and turned over a 4.
I said "whew, thank god, we're chopping," and flipped over my cards, and started pulling back the chips. Then she turned over her other card and said "I have a 9 too."
I've never been slow rolled like that in a casino before. Home games with friends is a different story, and that's all good. But in a casino, it's 100% wrong, and I was furious. I actually started to say "You b - " then I stopped myself. If it was a guy who did that, I would have told him that was an asshole move and he could fuck right off with that kind of slowrolling bullshit. But I'm not going to berate a woman like that. It just doesn't ever seem appropriate.
So my next reaction was to leave that table. I really did not want to play with her any more. But I didn't want to seem like I was storming off either. So I sat around for a couple more orbits, then I left.

 

[Lemonzest]

If you say she was a bad player are you sure she understood what she did. There are some people that are pretty bad.

 

[Jeff]

Did anyone at all say anything to her about the slow roll being asshole-ish?

 

[Poker Zombie]

Three things immediately come to mind...

1. She may have honestly made a mistake. Bad players might not notice that they caught the top end until thinking it through after the betting is over, and their mind is clear. Even more likely if the river was the 8, connecting the card that was previously "unconnected."
2. If it was intentional, a bad player might not have understood the egregiousness of a slow roll. It's fine in movies, and it's fine at home, so why isn't it fine in a casino with strangers? If this is the case, a gentle correction of couthness may be in order, but I'd be more likely to shrug off the first one, because I do not want to scare the fish.
3. The definition of sexisim: distinction and especially unjust distinction based on gender. As Human Resources puts it, "If you treat someone differently, because of their sex, that's sexisim." So why do you think it's acceptable to say "that was an asshole move and he could fuck right off with that kind of slowrolling bullshit", when you know that kind of vulgar, aggressive behavior is totally unacceptable, and could result in anything from a warning, to being thrown out of the casino?

 

[gmunny]

Did she say "But you made me for the nine, Maurice. You're a player."

 

[upNdown]

If you say she was a bad player are you sure she understood what she did. There are some people that are pretty bad.

That’s a good question, and one that never occurred to me. I’ll guess probably. She knew her way around a poker table. She was very comfortable at the table and she even got involved it some rules discussions - I’d say her knowledge of the game seemed to be average for a 1/2 player.
I suppose it’s possible that she has competent knowledge of the game, yet is ignorant of slowrolling etiquette - it’s not something that I’ve seen come up very often. But I think it’s more likely than not that she knew what she was doing.
It’s provably relevant that I felted her earlier in the session when she called my AK preflop and on every street, so she may have had motivation.

 

[Lemonzest]

Not to rub salt in your wound...but this story cracks me up. It is way funnier knowing it is a girl...

 

[upNdown]

The definition of sexisim: distinction and especially unjust distinction based on gender. As Human Resources puts it, "If you treat someone differently, because of their sex, that's sexisim." So why do you think it's acceptable to say "that was an asshole move and he could fuck right off with that kind of slowrolling bullshit", when you know that kind of vulgar, aggressive behavior is totally unacceptable, and could result in anything from a warning, to being thrown out of the casino?

Fair point. I’ll just respond with this. I’ve punched men, in anger, in my life. Most likely I’ve outgrown that crap, but I wouldn’t say it could never happen again. I have never and will never hit a woman. That alone makes me a sexist by your definition.

 

[upNdown]

Did anyone at all say anything to her about the slow roll being asshole-ish?

Not that I’m aware of. Like I said, I left about 10 minutes later. I’d hope somebody said something to her afterwards.

 

[moose]

The $20 river bet was terrible.

But you need to accept terrible behaviour from terrible players. You are there to win money not find friends, nor become a card professor to teach people how to play right. Letting complete strangers anger you at a poker table is a leak in your game. Don't get angry - get their stack.

 

[Frogzilla]

i err, i would have definitely stayed and tried to win my money back. especially if she's a bad player.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Fair point. I’ll just respond with this. I’ve punched men, in anger, in my life. Most likely I’ve outgrown that crap, but I wouldn’t say it could never happen again. I have never and will never hit a woman. That alone makes me a sexist by your definition.

I would also typify assault to be socially unacceptable as well.

I think when we were young (especially if you are around my age) we were expected to fight as boys, but taught to never hurt a girl. Fair rules in the 1970s/early 80s, and for a 12 year old (or younger). Today's society isn't the same anymore. If it's wrong to do it to a man, it's wrong to do it to a woman.

I'm not trying to be all PC here. I'm in a high-testosterone, traditionally all-male job. I'm cut of the same cloth. Now when some dude says or does something that would piss me off, I think "would I do that to a woman?" It diffuses my anger so much quicker, and I'm a better person for it.

If a woman pisses me off, I think "OK, how hot is she?" I'm sure that's not right either, but one step at a time...

 

[upNdown]

The $20 river bet was terrible.

But you need to accept terrible behaviour from terrible players. You are there to win money not find friends, nor become a card professor to teach people how to play right. Letting complete strangers anger you at a poker table is a leak in your game. Don't get angry - get their stack.

I agree. And I’ve come to realize that I’m not a good cash player, because for whatever reason, I haven’t learned to play the game with the same kind of discipline I have in tournaments.

 

[Kain8]

Don't get angry - get their stack.

That might be one of the best motvational lines I've ever heard!

 

[upNdown]

I would also typify assault to be socially unacceptable as well

I agree completely. I’m not a violent person. I’ve been in two real fights in my life - one in high school, and once in college. And that’s totally out of character for me. But my point is that there’s something inside of me that says that’s totally unacceptable when it comes to women - no exceptions. I guess that makes me a sexist.
When it comes to gender issues, I’m more of a feminist than anything. But I’m also more likely to hold a door or an elevator for a woman, than a man. Sorry ladies, I’m a bit chivalrous.
(And yes, I hold doors for men too. But probably Only if they’re like 3-5 seconds away. Women get a few more seconds.)

 

[Poker Zombie]

Women do smell better on the elevator! (y) :thumbsup:

...and I apologise if I appeared to be calling you sexist - Just trying to help you think in terms that won't get you ejected from a cardroom managed by a millennial someday.

 

[JustinInMN]

If she can engage in rule discuss in she knows better. I wouldn't call names here regardless of the sex of the opponent, but I would make my displeasure known and call the floor over to stop it from happening again.

 

[upNdown]

Not to rub salt in your wound...but this story cracks me up. It is way funnier knowing it is a girl...

It is funny today. But last night it was not funny. I’m sure my anger was fueled by the fact that I had been knock out of my tournament on multiple ugly suckouts - just a rough night.
But the incident gave me a better understanding of that famous incident where Matusow got so pissed after being slow rolled by Sean Deeb.

 

[Gobbs]

I've never been slow rolled like that in a casino before. Home games with friends is a different story, and that's all good.

I know it’s not the point, but I don’t really think it’s OK in home games, either. I’ve been sucked out on (as we all have many times), I’ve been called a donkey and worse, and I’ve suffered through some real morons at the table (again, haven’t we all?), but the only time I’ve ever wanted to piledrive a player through a poker table was when he slow-rolled me. Unless you are playing for fun, Skittles, or maybe very stakes, it’s just poor form.

 

[Coyote]

Knowing the rules even perfectly and being a theorist about anything doesn't make you good at it.
Chances are that she was struggling to figure out what she had...
Of course, only @upNdown among us has seen the expression on her face and the look in her eyes.

That said, I think that the gender equality principle, adamantly construed, should dictate that mean / crooked people morally deserve punches or slaps regardless of their sex.
But the Law bans all that anyway, correctly so, at the end of the day.

 

[JustinInMN]

I know it’s not the point, but I don’t really think it’s OK in home games, either. I’ve been sucked out on (as we all have many times), I’ve been called a donkey and worse, and I’ve suffered through some real morons at the table (again, haven’t we all?), but the only time I’ve ever wanted to piledrive a player through a poker table was when he slow-rolled me. Unless you are playing for fun, Skittles, or maybe very stakes, it’s just poor form.

One and only time I've ever thrown cards in a home game was when I got slow rolled. He was probably too stoned to know to feel it. Sure it was low stakes.

 

[Ghoti]

If you can't handle it then yeah, good job removing yourself from the situation. But it's just a slowroll. Whatever. I'd never do it myself, but when someone else does it it's just a reflection of himself. More free information at the poker table. No need to take it personally.

 

[Trihonda]

Fair point. I’ll just respond with this. I’ve punched men, in anger, in my life. Most likely I’ve outgrown that crap, but I wouldn’t say it could never happen again. I have never and will never hit a woman. That alone makes me a sexist by your definition.

Interesting... I’ve actually hit a woman hard once... elbowed her square across the bridge of her nose (granted she pulled a knife on me). And apart from martial arts sparring, ive been in many scuffles with women (and men for that matter), and my goal is always to end/control the situation, not injure anyone, so I typically fall back to Jiu jitsu (grappling). Not much hitting. Not practical.

Now to the poker table and “battles”, I’m an equal opportunity guy.. I’ll take anyone’s money. BUT that slow roll was a dick move. She knew what she was doing... by rolling the lower end first, she knew... playing 94.. I’d stick it to her (keep playing) and take her money. Slow roll her back? Lol.

 

[Perthmike]

Interesting... I’ve actually hit a woman hard once... elbowed her square across the bridge of her nose (granted she pulled a knife on me). And apart from martial arts sparring, ive been in many scuffles with women (and men for that matter), and my goal is always to end/control the situation, not injure anyone, so I typically fall back to Jiu jitsu (grappling). Not much hitting. Not practical.

Now to the poker table and “battles”, I’m an equal opportunity guy.. I’ll take anyone’s money. BUT that slow roll was a dick move. She knew what she was doing... by rolling the lower end first, she knew... playing 94.. I’d stick it to her (keep playing) and take her money. Slow roll her back? Lol.

Hahahah sticking around just to slow roll her back would have been an epic move.

 

[MoscowRadio]

Women do smell better on the elevator! (y) :thumbsup:

...and I apologise if I appeared to be calling you sexist - Just trying to help you think in terms that won't get you ejected from a cardroom managed by a millennial someday.

Your chauvinistic and ignorant ideologies about young 30-somethings is showing.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Your chauvinistic and ignorant ideologies about young 30-somethings is showing.

I will not put everyone that falls into the age range of 30 something as a millenial. You are who your parents raised you. By your outlandish decree of "chauvinistic and ignorant ideologies", I can clearly deduce that you did not have the "Helicopter Parents" that generated a generation of millenials.

If I had to guess, your parents raised you to be a Gen X'er.

Then again, so fucking many millenials think that they aren't millennials, that that is probablly one of the signs. Tell me this: Have you ever argued: "Not everyone gets a trophy - you have to participate to get it?" If so, you're a millennial. That's fine by me. If not, then you aren't a millennial - and that is also acceptable.

 

[Trihonda]

@Poker Zombie everyone does get a reward for playing...

it’s called learning character, teamwork, and sportsmanship. It’s reward enough. If you work really hard, you might have a better chance at winning a game, scoring a goal, etc.

I don’t mind participation tokens if they’re framed a souvenirs (after all, most meetups have a commemorative chip just for attending)

 

[pltrgyst]

<<<<<----- If you were armed with American Slow-Rollers' Society chips, you could have just tossed her one :.

 

[upNdown]

Interesting... I’ve actually hit a woman hard once... elbowed her square across the bridge of her nose (granted she pulled a knife on me). And apart from martial arts sparring, ive been in many scuffles with women (and men for that matter), and my goal is always to end/control the situation, not injure anyone, so I typically fall back to Jiu jitsu (grappling). Not much hitting. Not practical.

No judgements. Our life experiences are different. The only time I can remember being assaulted by a woman, she wasn’t a real threat to me, so force wasn’t necessary.

 

[longflop]

I will not put everyone that falls into the age range of 30 something as a millenial. You are who your parents raised you. By your outlandish decree of "chauvinistic and ignorant ideologies", I can clearly deduce that you did not have the "Helicopter Parents" that generated a generation of millenials.

If I had to guess, your parents raised you to be a Gen X'er.

Then again, so fucking many millenials think that they aren't millennials, that that is probablly one of the signs. Tell me this: Have you ever argued: "Not everyone gets a trophy - you have to participate to get it?" If so, you're a millennial. That's fine by me. If not, then you aren't a millennial - and that is also acceptable.

I'm going to take a little different stance on this one. And to qualify, I just had my 40th birthday in March. I'm being completely honest when I tell you I have no idea what generation I am part of.

I coach youth lacrosse, hockey, basketball and soccer. Just this spring, I coached three different lacrosse teams. Granted my older son played on two of them and my middle played on another. Here's the hot take, for the younger ages, I am completely fine with participation trophies. Kids improve by getting reps in practices and games. The main goal of youth coaches should be for the players to learn the game, have fun and want to come back. The director of our hockey program told me that we are trying to create beer league players. That way they know how to play the game and they like it enough to keep coming back. They become the consumers of the pro leagues and introduce the next generation. its what keeps the sport going. The kids who are truly special you almost have to try to screw them up. They are wired to succeed.

A little bit of a tangent there, but if calling them up in front of the team at the end of the season, letting them know how they improved, what you want them to do to keep improving and hand them a momento for the season gives them a great memory and makes them want to come back, mission accomplished. What you don't do is tell them they were champions just for showing up, you gotta earn that.

I don't think participation trophies make kids soft. Telling kids winning doesn't matter because they tried their hardest, when they didn't, is what makes them soft.