Cash Game I got slow rolled. And by a woman. (1 Viewer)

Was she cute? Because if she was cute, then her play was totally acceptable. Dude, if you can't smile at that one then you need to stay away from the table. (Four card straight board and you were out of position? Seriously?) Come on. You have to laugh and say well played.

Next time you are at a limpy passive table sitting 7 or 8 seats to her left when she bets $5 on the button, re-pop it to $45.
 
if calling them up in front of the team at the end of the season, letting them know how they improved, what you want them to do to keep improving and hand them a momento for the season gives them a great memory and makes them want to come back, mission accomplished. What you don't do is tell them they were champions just for showing up, you gotta earn that.

I don't think participation trophies make kids soft. Telling kids winning doesn't matter because they tried their hardest, when they didn't, is what makes them soft.

This is literally everything. I got awards and rewards when I achieved, I got certificates and feedback when I tried. I got angry when I failed. But I always got encouragement and I always got something for participating. Always. From kindergarten to camp to youth bowling to basketball to high school to college. I instill it in my kids everyday at home and school. Being a part of things and trying and enjoying the journey is the most important thing. Winning or being/not being the best at something is a personal decision everyone works at and comes to grips with eventually.

I had to have kids and start teaching to fully gain this insight.
 
Tell me this: Have you ever argued: "Not everyone gets a trophy - you have to participate to get it?" If so, you're a millennial. That's fine by me. If not, then you aren't a millennial - and that is also acceptable.

Had this discussion the other day with relatives. I’ve always gotten trophies for team and league endeavors, or athletic events and even academic bowls and bees. If I didn’t win, my trophy was just smaller or didn’t have a nameplate on it. This was always the case to my recollection. Why do so many think this is so wrong today?

1st place gets the largest, 2nd and 3rd the next largest, everyone else gets a small trophy or a generic medal. I really don’t see why this bothers anyone. I know its not just a millenial thing either, because my Conservative old racist mom remembers the same deal at her school Field Days and other events. There’s always been recognition for participation. Maybe the true problem needs to be restated or clarified. Are we thinking of specific instances of everyone getting the exact same recognition for lesser work or achievement and exaggerating them as the norm? I just don’t see it.
 
Had this discussion the other day with relatives. I’ve always gotten trophies for team and league endeavors, or athletic events and even academic bowls and bees. If I didn’t win, my trophy was just smaller or didn’t have a nameplate on it. This was always the case to my recollection. Why do so many think this is so wrong today?

I don't have a problem with participant rewards. Hell, in my poker league we reward...
  • Payouts Roughly 1/3 the field gets paid. Obviously, skill based, but deep payout fields with fairly short tournaments is rewarding some lucky players for participating.
  • Bonus. Sometimes skill based, frequently luck based. Bad beats are bad luck based, but the idea is to reward the player that is now unlikely to win as well.
  • Player of the Year. Again, skill based, but a single point is awarded for every event you attend (but failed to cash). These single points have been the final determining in multiple seasons, so it does reward participation.
  • Hall of Fame. Once a year, a player gets their likeness permanently placed on a stack of chips. The criteria considers skill and contribution to the game. One of the recipients has also been one of our most losing players... because sportsmanship matters.
  • Most improved. Not much of a reward, but they are mentioned during our Hall of Fame presentation dinner (yeah, we do that). While this is skill based, you probably weren't that good to start in order to get this nod.
  • Iron Zombie. Eventually, I'll do the artwork for this one but real life keeps getting in the way of making the sign. The winner will get a reserved parking spot (with sign) closest to the house. It is given to the player with the longest consecutive game streak. 100% participant trophy material.
I simply meant to infer that arguing that you earned a participant trophy is weak, not that the acts of participating, or the reward for participating is weak.
 
Why do so many think this is so wrong today?
.

Great question. I can only speak for myself...

I think it’s more the fact this “trophy” practice gets blamed for the college kids who melt down when they don’t get an A, ya know cuz they feel they deserve one (even though they didn’t study)... or the employee who goes on a rampage because he didn’t get the job promotion he felt he was owed (even though 30 people applied for the position, 29 of which had more time and experience with the company), or the new hire who expects to have the same pay and benefits as someone who has worked for the company for 15 years, cuz it’s only fair and all... and because everyone gets a trophy and is treated equally..

It’s this sense of entitlement people get bristley about... some of these kids are so self absorbed... they feel they deserve IT, regardless of the fact that if THEY got it, those 29 other people won’t. Someone has to lose, and in the real world, the odds say you’re much more likely to lose a bunch before you find success.

I’ve seen far worse examples than the ones above too...

Now, there’s nothing wrong with teaching kids that participation is good, and showering your kids with love and support... but I think good parenting is finding that right balance between love/support “you’re special” and teaching them the skills and attitude they’ll need to survive in real life.
 
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Also, regarding the original post, I immediately thought of an old female friend of mine who I played a lot of poker with before marriage, who used to talk about distracting guys with cleavage or shorts or heels, and intimidating them with a serious table image. She’d get under their skin early at a table by showing bluffs and making comments or occasionally slowrolling them and saying things like “oops” or “I swear I’m just a silly girl”. We used to laugh about it after. Dudes would steam and drop so much to her. They could not stand to be shown up or bluffed or made to look silly by a female.

Its so common as to not make me even question anyone’s makeup as a person or label them as sexist. History has so engrained extreme masculinity into guys that our lives and worldviews can easily be altered by it at the drop of a hat.
 
While I fully support the notion of one winner and many losers in a sporting event, a poker tournament or a merit based job opening, it is easy to get lost trying to apply this too strongly to the real world. Most real world situations should be more focused on demonstration of a minimum acceptable level of skills.

Let's look at a lot of examples.

We don't give "best student driver" awards at the DMV. Anyone able to demonstrate the needed skills and fulfill the rules set by the legislature gets a drivers license.

We do honor students with exemplary grades. For the most part they don't get a prize, they get summa cum laude printed on their diploma. Everyone else who demonstrates acceptable academic achievement gets the same diploma. I didn't find employers paid much attention to my in school academic achievements once I had a few years work under my belt. First in class from high school bordered on meaningless after college and grad school.

I don't know if my doctor / dentist got the best scores. I don't generally care beyond knowing they are competent. I certainly am not going to pay $1,000 more for a procedure from a top ten percent dental school graduate. I likely would pay more for work done by a doctor with a history of good patient results.

Professional credentials in general are competency based measures of skill. CPAs are awarded via test. Licenses to practice law are the same. A registered professional engineer is awarded based on experience and tests. This is not limited to "professional" disciplines. Barbers, locksmiths, nail techs, ect. are all licensed based on education and / or testing. We don't limit the number of people admitted to the profession to just "the best" or the "winners" nor do we give anyone who shows up a license. If you demonstrate the skill, you get the right to practice the profession. No 1st place trophy, no participation awards.

States award permits to carry firearms are issued based on whatever level of skill that state deems needed to safely own and use a gun. There is no competition where only the winning citizens get a license, everyone who meets the criteria gets the prize.

The discussion about participation awards vs trophies is for the most part pointless blather. Selected media spend a lot of time and energy making the argument but that doesn't make it meaningful. On the other hand, if someone can show merit based standards are being lowered, THAT would be well worth discussion and study.

I could give a shit how the parents give rewards and recognition to their children in middle school soccer. Same thing with Jr high science fair or college intramural lacrosse. For the most part, I don't have the right to an opinion anyway - they aren't my children, my approval or disapproval is meaningless. The real world is rather effective at cleaning up parenting mistakes - perhaps to the detriment of the parents and children in selected cases. Again, not my problem.

DrStrange

PS and is response to the original post and point of the thread - - I encourage people not to tilt over getting slow rolled or otherwise "disrespected". This is a serious leak in your game and oh so easy to exploit. Props to the OP to know enough to get up and go home rather than play tilted. But it is a lot easier once you learn to ignore the whole thing. Laugh it off, make a joke and go on. Wasting a day or more of your life steaming over the "insult" or however you take it is just wrong.

PPS and if the gender of the player is making the burn even hotter - grow up.
 
When I was a kid, I played baseball, basketball, football, tennis, I wrestled and I ran cross country. In all that time, I received two trophies. One was for a football championship, the other for an undefeated tennis season. I guarantee you those trophies meant a lot more to me because I didn't get trophies for simply participating. Getting a trophy was special and reserved for true accomplishments. Sure, I got a few ribbons that said participant or something like that, but not a trophy. When you got a trophy, you earned it. I'm glad I didn't get trophies for simply participating. The thought of earning a trophy was motivating and taught me how to work to be better.

(That's what I think is wrong with getting trophies for participation - even if they are smaller.)
 
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PPS and if the gender of the player is making the burn even hotter - grow up.
I don't think I need to grow up, I don't think I have gender issues, and I don't think "being disrespected" causes me to tilt, nor is that a leak in my game. I think I'm just a shit NLHE cash player and I need to stop playing it. I'm a good NLHE tournament player and I need to focus on that. My NLHE cash game is undoubtedly open to a wide variety of leaks and tilts, and I mentioned this one because it was interesting. The woman part of it was only significant because, like I said, if it was a guy, I would have yelled at him. But I'm not going to yell at a woman.
 
I don't think I need to grow up, I don't think I have gender issues, and I don't think "being disrespected" causes me to tilt, nor is that a leak in my game. I think I'm just a shit NLHE cash player and I need to stop playing it. I'm a good NLHE tournament player and I need to focus on that. My NLHE cash game is undoubtedly open to a wide variety of leaks and tilts, and I mentioned this one because it was interesting. The woman part of it was only significant because, like I said, if it was a guy, I would have yelled at him. But I'm not going to yell at a woman.

I definitely get this. I am also far more apt to get tilty in a cash game. I prefer tournaments by a very large margin, and plan casino visits around tournament start times. Unfortunately, sometimes a cash game is the only thing going, so I play for the sake of getting to play.

Oddly, I do better in cash games. I just enjoy the tournaments more.
 
I definitely get this. I am also far more apt to get tilty in a cash game. I prefer tournaments by a very large margin, and plan casino visits around tournament start times. Unfortunately, sometimes a cash game is the only thing going, so I play for the sake of getting to play.

Oddly, I do better in cash games. I just enjoy the tournaments more.
Funny thing is, until recently, I thought that I, as a successful tournament player, had more patience and discipline than the cash players. The truth is that I'm horribly impatient player, but with a tournament clock to watch, I can manage myself. Successful grinders at the cash tables? God love them. I'd need a valium.
 
Funny thing is, until recently, I thought that I, as a successful tournament player, had more patience and discipline than the cash players. The truth is that I'm horribly impatient player, but with a tournament clock to watch, I can manage myself. Successful grinders at the cash tables? God love them. I'd need a valium.

For that reason, I rarely sit at a cash table for more than 2 hours in a casino. Home games are obviously different, because there is a more enjoyable social aspect, but it is not at all unusual for me to sit for just 1 hour in a cash game. Beyond the 2 hour mark, fatigue sets in and I need a break. I could just get up every hour or two in a cash game and walk around, but I hate to tie up a seat for 10-15 minutes when there is any sort of a waitlist.
 

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