Why I tip more, and why you should too (3 Viewers)

[rustycheerio]

This has always been a discussion amongst players, and always will be.

Here are my reasons I tip more;

1. The dealers are giving you money, not food. You tip at a restaurant when you're leaving. Why would you only give a dollar or two to someone who just pushed you hundreds, giving you the ability to go to that restaurant even more times.

2. The dealers are people too. They are at work, do your best to make their job easier, and more enjoyable. The majority of people in casinos or card rooms are there to have fun, kill some time, and make some money. Some, all of the above. Why not give the person who is helping you have fun a little extra. That extra will go a long way.

3. The dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be. Dealers getting that consistent dollar/hand aren't making as much do to inflation. Bread isn't $2 anymore.

4. Gambling is purely a selfish act (many might disagree) - tip more to level out the playing field. Make it not so selfish.

5. Lastly, will that extra dollar or two really make or break your session?

Note; This only applies for dealers who are efficient and not pricks.

 

[Eriks]

I think they should be paid decent salaries instead, but that’s just me being all european.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'm focusing mainly on point 5 here.

If you want to tip a little extra for a very large pot, go for it, but tipping an extra $1 or $2 or more in general—i.e., double, triple, or quadruple or more of the usual $1 per pot—will, in fact, make or break the game over the long term.

Even $1 per pot won is pulling substantial money out of the game per hour, on top of whatever rake is coming out. Scaling that up has larger effects on the game than you might think, including to players other than you (whose potential to win is diminished along with yours as money leaves the table).

As to the rest of the points, this whole idea of tipping and players being responsible for dealers' financial well-being is ridiculous. They're not my employees. They're not your employees. They're the employees of a business that should be paying them enough that customers don't have to be guilted into showering them with more and more money as the corporations become more and more ravenous. Tips are supposed to be something extra, not the income that entire segments of society depend on to eat.

The more we accommodate this, the easier it is for businesses to continue this regime of underpaying their employees and engaging in toxic social pressure to get customers to bridge their payroll gap.

 

[kmccormick100]

This sounds like you aren't scooping as many pots per hour as you should be...

I tip $1/ hand to any hand I take down, even if it's just a raise and take the blinds, in which case I'm tipping 15-40% of the pot. On larger pots >$400 I'll usually tip $2

 

[MrRossKeys]

Sadly, I tip more in Vegas than I do at the local casinos.... because the local rake is outrageous vs Vegas. I already feel like I am playing a losing game If I raise pre-flop and no one calls...

 

[ekricket]

@casinochipper22

 

[CraigT78]

I think they should be paid decent salaries instead, but that’s just me being all european.

I agree and that's me being a snowflake

 

[rustycheerio]

I think they should be paid decent salaries instead, but that’s just me being all european.

i agree, but that isn't how it is here.

I'm focusing mainly on point 5 here.

If you want to tip a little extra for a very large pot, go for it, but tipping an extra $1 or $2 or more in general—i.e., double, triple, or quadruple or more of the usual $1 per pot—will, in fact, make or break the game over the long term.

Even $1 per pot won is pulling substantial money out of the game per hour, on top of whatever rake is coming out. Scaling that up has larger effects on the game than you might think, including to players other than you (whose potential to win is diminished along with yours as money leaves the table).

As to the rest of the points, this whole idea of tipping and players being responsible for dealers' financial well-being is ridiculous. They're not my employees. They're not your employees. They're the employees of a business that should be paying them enough that customers don't have to be guilted into showering them with more and more money as the corporations become more and more ravenous. Tips are supposed to be something extra, not the income that entire segments of society depend on to eat.

The more we accommodate this, the easier it is for businesses to continue this regime of underpaying their employees and engaging in toxic social pressure to get customers to bridge their payroll gap.

great points here.

if tipping extra every hand has a significant impact on the game long term, there isn't too much money being added to the table, ie: bad games overall. places I play I feel there is a constant flow of new players, and money being added. that extra $2 won't make a difference since that guy is buying back in for another $300.

yes, they are the card room or casinos employees, however, it has de-volved into tipping being the main source of income for all of them (mainly talking USA). this will NEVER change. they are supplying a service to make money, and by not switching back to a salary base, they will continue to thrive and increase rake.
do not punish the dealers, punish the casino and stop playing there if you don't want to support a 'toxic social pressure.'

if i eat, everyone who helped me, gets to eat too.

 

[upNdown]

Even $1 per pot won is pulling substantial money out of the game per hour, on top of whatever rake is coming out.

You know what’s strange? I’ve always been annoyed when people tip waitresses out of their stack. Or pay a bigger tip to a masseuse (or god forbid paying for the full massage) out of their stack. To me, that has always felt like going south - you’re not allowed to take money off the table unless you’re leaving.

But strangely I never considered the dealer tips in the same way until you mentioned it just now. I have thought about it like rake, in terms of my personal profits. But I never thought about it in terms of money coming out of the game.
You’re absolutely right.

 

[upNdown]

The dealers are giving you money

I’m not sure exactly how literally you meant this, but I disagree completely. I would never blame a dealer for killing me on the river, so I would never credit them with “giving me money.”

I do tip dealers (rarely more than a buck or two at a $1/2-3 table) when I win a pot, for whatever that’s worth. But I do it mostly because it’s expected. They haven’t given me a service that’s above expectation, because it isn’t really possible. They’re expected to deal efficiently - that’s the job.

 

[BarrieJ3]

You know what’s strange? I’ve always been annoyed when people tip waitresses out of their stack.

But are you really though?

What if the people tipping the waitress out of their stack is like quadrupled up. And they're ordering drinks for the whole table and tipping out. And also trying to get drinks from 2-3 waitresses at once. And generally just drink the entire drink as it arrives, leading to people pooling drinks for that person or the waitress just starting to bring 2 at once.

And this person has a larger stack at the table, that while yes a small piece of it is going off the table as he runs off to track down a waitress and give her $20 to skip the other tables and to come back to theirs, is likely to end up in your stack anyways.

I mean, you probably want that person grabbing as many drinks and tipping out as much as necessary yeah? I'm uhhh......asking for a friend. (@kmccormick100)

 

[ekricket]

You know what’s strange? I’ve always been annoyed when people tip waitresses out of their stack. Or pay a bigger tip to a masseuse (or god forbid paying for the full massage) out of their stack. To me, that has always felt like going south - you’re not allowed to take money off the table unless you’re leaving.

But strangely I never considered the dealer tips in the same way until you mentioned it just now. I have thought about it like rake, in terms of my personal profits. But I never thought about it in terms of money coming out of the game.
You’re absolutely right.

Was playing st a local casino long time back. Small place, most nights no game. But one night 6-7 of us hit one going, everyone sat down with $100. We played for about two hours, no major action or anything, normal tipping and rake, and we were all pretty even - down.
I counted everyone’s stack, we all had 50-60 dollars. Nobody had more than 80. House wins. Hard to keep throwing dollars voluntarily in that situation.

 

[Jimulacrum]

great points here.

if tipping extra every hand has a significant impact on the game long term, there isn't too much money being added to the table, ie: bad games overall. places I play I feel there is a constant flow of new players, and money being added. that extra $2 won't make a difference since that guy is buying back in for another $300.

A poker game shouldn't need multiple whales reloading for max buy-ins repeatedly just to stay afloat. If you want to look at it that way, the tips are burning through your whales' funding faster instead of burning through just the money on the table. Same problem, though, from a game-health perspective.

yes, they are the card room or casinos employees, however, it has de-volved into tipping being the main source of income for all of them (mainly talking USA). this will NEVER change.

It will never change as long as people continue enabling it even as corporations continue scaling the currency to infinity.

Stop enabling it, however, and businesses will have to raise wages to stay competitive as inflation does its dirty work. Witness the increases in fast-food wages over the past few years. No one is tipping those people. Burger King et al have to pay more to retain labor. That's what we should want.

they are supplying a service to make money, and by not switching back to a salary base, they will continue to thrive and increase rake.
do not punish the dealers, punish the casino and stop playing there if you don't want to support a 'toxic social pressure.'

if i eat, everyone who helped me, gets to eat too.

It's extremely toxic. Just look at where every thread on this topic ends up going.

You can't even have a conversation about it without someone resorting to this "If you don't want to tip, don't go there" argument.

Except I didn't even say I don't want to tip. I just object to the endless, toxic pressure to keep funding businesses' deficient payrolls. I don't think anything is gained from this, except for the businesses that are doing quite a bit better than 99% of their customers and employees.

 

[exodus]

 

[rustycheerio]

A poker game shouldn't need multiple whales reloading for max buy-ins repeatedly just to stay afloat. If you want to look at it that way, the tips are burning through your whales' funding faster instead of burning through just the money on the table. Same problem, though, from a game-health perspective.


It will never change as long as people continue enabling it even as corporations continue scaling the currency to infinity.

Stop enabling it, however, and businesses will have to raise wages to stay competitive as inflation does its dirty work. Witness the increases in fast-food wages over the past few years. No one is tipping those people. Burger King et al have to pay more to retain labor. That's what we should want.


It's extremely toxic. Just look at where every thread on this topic ends up going.

You can't even have a conversation about it without someone resorting to this "If you don't want to tip, don't go there" argument.

Except I didn't even say I don't want to tip. I just object to the endless, toxic pressure to keep funding businesses' deficient payrolls. I don't think anything is gained from this, except for the businesses that are doing quite a bit better than 99% of their customers and employees.

if a game has been running over an hour, and there hasn't been a single rebuy or add-on, it is likely a bad game.

it is a unfair comparison to compare retailer and fast food workers to employees that have always been mainly tip based.

i'm unsure the history behind tipping, but it has been around all my life, and it is extremely unlikely it will go away.
nearly every employee involved in gambling is tip based, there will never be a time these companies fall to their knees and offer salary except for upper management.

 

[ekricket]

if a game has been running over an hour, and there hasn't been a single rebuy or add-on, it is likely a bad game.

it is a unfair comparison to compare retailer and fast food workers to employees that have always been mainly tip based.

i'm unsure the history behind tipping, but it has been around all my life, and it is extremely unlikely it will go away.
nearly every employee involved in gambling is tip based, there will never be a time these companies fall to their knees and offer salary except for upper management.

Maybe they should go get different jobs if theirs is so crappy and pays so little.

 

[rustycheerio]

Was playing st a local casino long time back. Small place, most nights no game. But one night 6-7 of us hit one going, everyone sat down with $100. We played for about two hours, no major action or anything, normal tipping and rake, and we were all pretty even - down.
I counted everyone’s stack, we all had 50-60 dollars. Nobody had more than 80. House wins. Hard to keep throwing dollars voluntarily in that situation.

i understand that. if everyone is playing short, 7 handed, it is impossible for anyone to make money except the house anyway.

 

[ekricket]

i understand that. if everyone is playing short, 7 handed, it is impossible for anyone to make money except the house anyway.

Wouldn’t have made any difference if there was 10 at the table
Maybe it would have taken three hours instead of two

 

[rustycheerio]

Wouldn’t have made any difference if there was 10 at the table

my point was, if everyone is playing short, there is no money to be made and everyone will lose regardless.
back to my original point towards @Jimulacrum , that would be considered a bad game. a more relaxed type.
give the dealer an extra buck.

 

[Labrat]

if a game has been running over an hour, and there hasn't been a single rebuy or add-on, it is likely a bad game.

Completely disagree with this.

 

[Budha]

The more we accommodate this, the easier it is for businesses to continue this regime of underpaying their employees and engaging in toxic social pressure to get customers to bridge their payroll gap.

This is not entirely accurate, and you need to consider the full picture. Do you know all of the various employee costs that employers are responsible for. It’s good research, I encourage you to explore it.

Line item out ALL of the employer cost per employee and see how much it cost the business per employee. Then calculate what your anticipated revenue would be, then your net take home. Then balance that out vs the personal risk you take against your savings, house, etc., to open and run a business.

It’s like everyone thinks every company and business owner is printing money and screwing their employees and it’s so tiring TBH.

Run some numbers for yourself and see. On Avg, the fully loaded cost for an FTE is about 40% over the total compensation. So basically a 1.4 factor, and it’s much higher for companies that offer good benefits.

Individuals have responsibility to make themselves marketable and to develop skills and/or education to do so. If a business is required to pay the same wage to a retail cashier as what a skilled trade earns that business will cease to exist. The margins in the real world just aren’t that high - despite what you might believe.

 

[rustycheerio]

Completely disagree with this.

we will agree to disagree then.
i've never once played somewhere that has been a good game with no rebuys or add-ons for over an hour.

 

[Eriks]

This is not entirely accurate, and you need to consider the full picture. Do you know all of the various employee costs that employers are responsible for. It’s good research, I encourage you to explore it.

Line item out ALL of the employer cost per employee and see how much it cost the business per employee. Then calculate what your anticipated revenue would be, then your net take home. Then balance that out vs the personal risk you take against your savings, house, etc., to open and run a business.

It’s like everyone thinks every company and business owner is printing money and screwing their employees and it’s so tiring TBH.

Run some numbers for yourself and see. On Avg, the fully loaded cost for an FTE is about 40% over the total compensation. So basically a 1.4 factor, and it’s much higher for companies that offer good benefits.

Individuals have responsibility to make themselves marketable and to develop skills and/or education to do so. If a business is required to pay the same wage to a retail cashier as what a skilled trade earns that business will cease to exist. The margins in the real world just aren’t that high - despite what you might believe.

We’re not talking mom and pop’s stores here though.

 

[rustycheerio]

This is not entirely accurate, and you need to consider the full picture. Do you know all of the various employee costs that employers are responsible for. It’s good research, I encourage you to explore it.

Line item out ALL of the employer cost per employee and see how much it cost the business per employee. Then calculate what your anticipated revenue would be, then your net take home. Then balance that out vs the personal risk you take against your savings, house, etc., to open and run a business.

It’s like everyone thinks every company and business owner is printing money and screwing their employees and it’s so tiring TBH.

Run some numbers for yourself and see. On Avg, the fully loaded cost for an FTE is about 40% over the total compensation. So basically a 1.4 factor, and it’s much higher for companies that offer good benefits.

Individuals have responsibility to make themselves marketable and to develop skills and/or education to do so. If a business is required to pay the same wage to a retail cashier as what a skilled trade earns that business will cease to exist. The margins in the real world just aren’t that high - despite what you might believe.

this is interesting and i appreciate the comment.
didn't think about this.
$10/hr for an employee actually costs the company $14/hr...

 

[Josh Kifer]

I agree and that's me being a snowflake

SOCIALISM!

 

[Labrat]

we will agree to disagree then.
i've never once played somewhere that has been a good game with no rebuys or add-ons for over an hour.

Wait, you're talking casinos.

Duh.

Nevermind.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Tip so well they call me George

 

[puglia82]

In Europe I see little tipping... much less then I saw in USA casinos.
Anyway, dealers are always hustling for tips, in gross or subtle way
I remember in Lugano ... croupier was always and openly asking for "mancia" (italian for tip). I won a 10-euro bet, I did not immediatly took the winning chip, dealer was asking "it's a tip?" are you kidding me??
Last sunday, I was playing blackjack in Campione. 20 chf bet. When bettor had a blackjack, dealer paid out 1x 20 chf chip, 2x 5 chf chip. He was clearly asking for 5 chf chip as tip... Someone tipped, someone not.
It seems a tax, not a tip.

This is a quote from Stanford Wong. It's written for blackjack, maybe it applies for poker too

 

[upNdown]

Wait, you're talking casinos.

Duh.

Nevermind.

I think I’d agree even for home games, assuming we’re talking about no limit or pot limit games.

 

[Budha]

We’re not talking mom and pop’s stores here though.

In many cases that’s exactly what they are talking about. Restaurants, retail stores, etc.