What happened to TRK? (1 Viewer)

[Blaster]

Here is an excerpt from an interview with Jim Blanchard of (then) ASM, which was posted on the other (blue) site:

"[ASM does] what's called high-pressure, high-temperature molding process. We're using 150-ton presses, and we're using 250+ degrees of temperature. So, the combination of the two gives a very, very sharp detail to our chips. As compared to the common company we get compared to, Paulson. Paulson does just the opposite. They use a low-pressure, low-temperature process."​

There is some other interesting information in that post, including a discussion of colors, edgespots and molds.

That's what I recall reading!

 

[bivey]

Fascinating stuff. I wish we could all take a GPI + CPC field trip.

 

[Mr Tree]

Fascinating stuff. I wish we could all take a GPI + CPC field trip.

So this^^^^

Part of my job is touring various manufacturing facilities and assessing the insurance exposures to their various processes. I would kill to see CPC in operation.

 

[Crepcheck]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks guys, this thread has been very insightful.

 

[Psypher1000]

I would kill to see CPC in operation.

They might have to kill you if you do.

 

[Pablo]

Great info, thanks for sharing

 

[justsomedude]

^^ And that company is run by Denis O'Neil's brother. His nephew (son of the brother) has/had access to the molds and related equipment, and even discussed selling them on CT a few years ago.

Anyone know their names? Sounds like we need to start stalking.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Anyone know their names? Sounds like we need to start stalking.

Denis' brother is Glen. I believe he is the current ownet of TRK (and the assets).

 

[justsomedude]

Denis' brother is Glen. I believe he is the current ownet of TRK (and the assets).

Anyone have some twine, and a blindfold?

 

[WedgeRock]

I understand he sold the dye color recipes, hot stamps and (I think) edgespot punches to BCC

...

BCC used the TRK colors and denomination hotstamps until BCC was acquired by GPI in June 2013

Shortly after TRK closed its doors, I got a custom hotstamp set from BCC using TRK numeral dies, so this information corrborates @gopherblue's statement

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Anyone have some twine, and a blindfold?

Hmmmmm....curious if the phone number works?? If not, we can organize a hangout at the address.

867-5309

 

[lapincretin]

Thank you for all this information. It's exciting but there is something wrong with me. TRK closed in 2006 and BCC opened in 2002. So the TRK process would be at work around 2006 at BCC when TRK closes, meanwhile it proposed the flame mold and then (2006) the new series (Samurai, etc.) with the TRK process. ???

When his son will continue production with new products to the end ???

 

[TheDuke]

Thank you for all this information. It's exciting but there is something wrong with me. TRK closed in 2006 and BCC opened in 2002. So the TRK process would be at work around 2006 at BCC when TRK closes, meanwhile it proposed the flame mold and then (2006) the new series (Samurai, etc.) with the TRK process. ???

When his son will continue production with new products to the end ???

I think BCC only acquired hot stamp dies and color formulas from TR King. I used to have a BCC set with TRK hotstamps and currently own a BCC set with some of the TRK colors.

 

[lapincretin]

We can see that the BCCs evolve at a certain time, the first BCCchips are not the modern series (like those of HPC website), there was perhaps at one time some subcontracting at TRK and then in 2006 TRK sell more stuff to BCC (except mythical molds).

There is really a difference in texture between the early BCCs and the Samurai Palace period (for example) really, it is not the same chips.

 

[TheDuke]

From what I recall. The early BCC products had a lot of QC issues and a very inconsistent product. Even towards the end there were still QC issues. But the product seemed to get better near the end of their run. So I do agree that there seemed to be an evolution of their product. Maybe they were experimenting with there clay formula and other techniques? There were tests of different inlay sizes/materials. There are Mardi Gras and Riverboat sets with oversized inlays that didn't turn out perfect.

Early on, it seemed like oblong inlays and spinners were quite prevalent. Later on there were still a few misshapen inlays but they were much better and far fewer spinners. Although with new molds there were new issues. The cigar and sniffer mold seemed to have issues with what was termed as ghost mold.

 

[lapincretin]

That's exactly it, the first generation seems more crumbly too, whereas afterwards they are really super strong.
It's not the same chips !

 

[ninedeuce]

Here is an excerpt from an interview with Jim Blanchard of (then) ASM, which was posted on the other (blue) site:

"[ASM does] what's called high-pressure, high-temperature molding process. We're using 150-ton presses, and we're using 250+ degrees of temperature. So, the combination of the two gives a very, very sharp detail to our chips. As compared to the common company we get compared to, Paulson. Paulson does just the opposite. They use a low-pressure, low-temperature process."​

There is some other interesting information in that post, including a discussion of colors, edgespots and molds.

Does the heat difference between Paulson & ASM/CPC contribute to the softer, more rubbery feel of Paulsons vs CPC?

 

[Papasatyr]

I recall reading that ASM / CPC uses " higher heat and pressure" to make their chips than Paulson ..
Can someone with more info outline some of the specific differences in manufacturing, other than clay formula or generalities?

Makes sense. ASM/CPCs are much harder than Paulsons. So ar BCCs.

 

[ekricket]

Does the heat difference between Paulson & ASM/CPC contribute to the softer, more rubbery feel of Paulsons vs CPC?

Makes sense. ASM/CPCs are much harder than Paulsons. So ar BCCs.

The different material used might make a difference.
Understatement of the year. It’s all about the materials. The materials dictate the heat and pressure you use.
Heat and pressure cost money. Lots of money because of loss of efficiency at the higher ends. Unless they are doing it for a specific need nobody is going to heat things up or increase the pressure in them just “to be different”. Nobodies advertising hardness as a selling point for their chips so I doubt that’s why they do it.

 

[rowlin]

@Nanook ran the King’s Crown semi-custom hotstamp group buy that ended up (I believe) being their final production run ever, in the summer of 2006.

As I recall, there was a plan to do a second group buy, with inlays, after the hotstamp run. Dennis announced rather abruptly and unceremoniously that he would not be renewing his lease and would be closing shop, around the time those chips were already being made.

 

[lapincretin]

The different material used might make a difference.
Understatement of the year. It’s all about the materials. The materials dictate the heat and pressure you use.
Heat and pressure cost money. Lots of money because of loss of efficiency at the higher ends. Unless they are doing it for a specific need nobody is going to heat things up or increase the pressure in them just “to be different”. Nobodies advertising hardness as a selling point for their chips so I doubt that’s why they do it.

Planned obsolecence is certainly part of the trick too when selling to casinos.
Each new casino required new tables and an initial supply of chips, playing cards and dice, but the actual volumes come from replacement sales.

Chips wear out too, they only last about five years in a normal casino.
So a manufacturer has no interest in it taking too long either. Maybe Bud Jones' error with their new plastic chips when they were fighting Paulson.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Chips wear out too, they only last about five years in a normal casino.

Paulsons last quite a bit longer than that, and Bud Jones can last 25 years or more. Bellagio opened in 1998, and they're a pretty high volume casino and they're still on their second rack of chips. 10-15 years is pretty typical for a set of Paulsons.

 

[lapincretin]

Paulsons last quite a bit longer than that, and Bud Jones can last 25 years or more. Bellagio opened in 1998, and they're a pretty high volume casino and they're still on their second rack of chips. 10-15 years is pretty typical for a set of Paulsons.

15 years seems like a long time, or they have something to do in the reserve and change the chips and reassort, I saw several home series completely out of after 10 years and the guys weren't playing 24/ 24. But it shuffles a lot ... However, it is still playable, except that the edges have really out. It also appears that there are several types of plastic at Paulson, or synthetic clay but it's still plastic. The composition of House molds look different too.

 

[Nanook]

@Nanook ran the King’s Crown semi-custom hotstamp group buy that ended up (I believe) being their final production run ever, in the summer of 2006.

Yes, this is right. I remember Dennis telling me more than once that once my GB was done he was going to retire. He did say his lease was up too. I think the real reason was that he just wasn't making much money any more and he didn't see any way to improve that situation so it all added up to him shuttering his doors.

As I recall, there was a plan to do a second group buy, with inlays, after the hotstamp run. Dennis announced rather abruptly and unceremoniously that he would not be renewing his lease and would be closing shop, around the time those chips were already being made.

I there was a Suicide Kings and then a Kings Crown inlaid GB that I believe both came shortly before the one I did. In any case all 3 were within a relatively short period of time.

I asked Dennis and so did several others about buying the molds. Way back then he was pretty adamant that the molds weren't for sale.

I concur with what Gopherblue and others have already said

 

[lapincretin]

Does anyone know how the 2 crown molds arrived on CPC? They bought the copyrights and it's a replica or exactly the same mold?

 

[RainmanTrail]

Does anyone know how the 2 crown molds arrived on CPC? They bought the copyrights and it's a replica or exactly the same mold?

They offered a per chip commission to the owner of the mold. CPC is effectively leasing or borrowing the mold from one of Dennis' kids (Dennis was the owner of TRK before he died).