What happened to TRK? (3 Viewers)

RainmanTrail

RainmanTrail

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Does anyone know the background story as to how/why they went down? Anyone know what happened to the equipment or know the owner? I think we need to do a TRK shop group buy and start making some Mapes!!!
 
" ..Charles started another chip business, Top Hat and Cane Company which manufactured chips in a totally different manner. Another son of Endy, Paul Jr., had also worked for his father at TR King but left earlier to start his own company in Las Vegas: Paul Son Dice and Card, Inc...."

What was meant by "totally different manner" ? Who wasn't doing compression clay .. ?
 
The short story is that in 2006, the owner of TRK, Dennis O'Neill, decided to retire. I understand he sold the dye color recipes, hot stamps and (I think) edgespot punches to BCC, but kept the large crown and small crown molds and the recipe for the clay. I believe he stated that he did not want anyone producing chips on his molds ever again. I believe that much of the manufacturing process, formula and know-how was only known to Dennis, and thus impossible to continue without him. I also understand that much of the original, irreplaceable equipment was scattered to the four winds.

BCC used the TRK colors and denomination hotstamps until BCC was acquired by GPI in June 2013.

It has been my hope that someone in the retail chip industry (at this point, the only viable candidate would be CPC and Jim Blanchard) would be able to convince Dennis O'Neill that what he built at TRK is too important to lose, and that he should preserve his legacy by entrusting another generation to continue producing small crown chips in the same way again. The problem is that the original TRK formula included lead, and would need to be reformulated to accommodate today's requirements. As time goes by, this becomes less and less likely. And in any event, the TRK process of manufacturing chips was totally different from the method used by CPC, so even if they obtained the molds, they wouldn't be able to produce Small Crown chips using their current method.

I keep hoping though, that Dennis has a change of heart, and allows someone to carry on his magnificent legacy.
 
gopherblue said:
The short story is that in 2006, the owner of TRK, Dennis O'Neill, decided to retire. I understand he sold the dye color recipes, hot stamps and (I think) edgespot punches to BCC, but kept the large crown and small crown molds and the recipe for the clay. I believe he stated that he did not want anyone producing chips on his molds ever again. I believe that much of the manufacturing process, formula and know-how was only known to Dennis, and thus impossible to continue without him. I also understand that much of the original, irreplaceable equipment was scattered to the four winds.

BCC used the TRK colors and denomination hotstamps until BCC was acquired by GPI in June 2013.

It has been my hope that someone in the retail chip industry (at this point, the only viable candidate would be CPC and Jim Blanchard) would be able to convince Dennis O'Neill that what he built at TRK is too important to lose, and that he should preserve his legacy by entrusting another generation to continue producing small crown chips in the same way again. The problem is that the original TRK formula included lead, and would need to be reformulated to accommodate today's requirements. As time goes by, this becomes less and less likely. And in any event, the TRK process of manufacturing chips was totally different from the method used by CPC, so even if they obtained the molds, they wouldn't be able to produce Small Crown chips using their current method.

I keep hoping though, that Dennis has a change of heart, and allows someone to carry on his magnificent legacy.
Click to expand...
Quite the story, wish TRK and others would come back into the market, the owners of the molds and dyes are what pushed me to create my CPC set as soon as I can, and I plan to continue to add to it as time passes, when I have the funds to do so. I fear the unknown in the chip market, I know CPC seems to be doing well, and I hope they continue their amazing work, but I dont wanna kick myself down the road for not creating a set while I still can.
 
I can't add much more than what's already been said other than I heard they were still producing dice.
 
^^ And that company is run by Denis O'Neil's brother. His nephew (son of the brother) has/had access to the molds and related equipment, and even discussed selling them on CT a few years ago.

Blaster said:
What was meant by "totally different manner" ? Who wasn't doing compression clay .. ?
Click to expand...

Not all compression clays are manufactured the same way. The Paulson/BCC method is quite different from the process used by Burt Co/ASM/CPC, and that previously used by TRK.
 
How old is this guy? Someone should keep the contact info current. Perhaps TRK could come back after his death? Not being a smartass but an heir to the equipment and information may not have the same view as Denis or his brother.
 
BGinGA said:
Any insights on TRK, Tommy?
Click to expand...

I talked with Dennis via email for about a 2 months when I was selling his NOS for him here. Sounded like he was still working somewhere. I asked if he had any TRK memorabilia that I could buy. Just had those calendars and brochures. I did ask about any old molds and he said no. :(
 
Last edited:
BGinGA said:
Not all compression clays are manufactured the same way. The Paulson/BCC method is quite different from the process used by Burt Co/ASM/CPC, and that previously used by TRK.
Click to expand...

But the color recipes work across all of them? Just curious how TRK and now GPI are able to pull off so many super bright and vibrant colors that CPC seems to have a hard time with. Is it that its just not possible when combined with their clay recipe, or just not enough experimentation has been done yet to come up with the proper recipes?
 
Tommy said:
I talked with Dennis via email for about a 2 months when I was selling his NOS for him here. Sounded like he was still working somewhere. I asked if he had any TRK memorabilia that I could buy. Just had those calendars and brochures. I did ask about any old molds and he said no. :(
Click to expand...

Did Dennis ever talk about why he's not selling the equipment, or rather the company itself (tools &I know-how)? I never heard a straight answer from anyone about that.

I heard that Dennis did sell the original record cards for all the chips the company had ever produced for a significant amount of money. There were over 35,000 of them. This matters a lot to collectors as it is a very valuable source of info for the rare chips they collect.
 
beaver said:
But the color recipes work across all of them? Just curious how TRK and now GPI are able to pull off so many super bright and vibrant colors that CPC seems to have a hard time with. Is it that its just not possible when combined with their clay recipe, or just not enough experimentation has been done yet to come up with the proper recipes?
Click to expand...

All this and more probably. CPC use a different process which MAY effect the way the clay colors react during the making process.
 
sleepypiggly said:
ASM during the original ownership transition did indeed approach GPI to be bought out. They laughed. There's no meaningful casino business ASM could bring to the table.
Click to expand...

GPI had also just bought out BCC around the same time. BCC were making casino chips and Red is a dick. It may not have been in their business plan to buy out a company that looked like it would end up killing itself anyway. Thank the chip gods for the David's and Jimb
 
sleepypiggly said:
Did Dennis ever talk about why he's not selling the equipment, or rather the company itself (tools &I know-how)? I never heard a straight answer from anyone about that.

I heard that Dennis did sell the original record cards for all the chips the company had ever produced for a significant amount of money. There were over 35,000 of them. This matters a lot to collectors as it is a very valuable source of info for the rare chips they collect.
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that the equipment went one place and the molds to another.
 
beaver said:
But the color recipes work across all of them? Just curious how TRK and now GPI are able to pull off so many super bright and vibrant colors that CPC seems to have a hard time with. Is it that its just not possible when combined with their clay recipe, or just not enough experimentation has been done yet to come up with the proper recipes?
Click to expand...
I believe that one feature of lead used in paint is to enhance color vibrancy. It may be that the lead in the TRK recipe helped with the bright colors.
 
Good question. I don't think so, but I haven't done a chemical analysis, either.....
 
BGinGA said:
Not all compression clays are manufactured the same way. The Paulson/BCC method is quite different from the process used by Burt Co/ASM/CPC, and that previously used by TRK.
Click to expand...

By this, I assume they mean their ingredients in the clay, the pressure of their clamps, the temp of the oven, and the duration of the bake. I would think it's more like different recipes rather than an entirely different process. But that's just my guess.
 
Nope. The processes themselves are dramatically different. lol, no clamps or ovens.
 
I recall reading that ASM / CPC uses " higher heat and pressure" to make their chips than Paulson ..
Can someone with more info outline some of the specific differences in manufacturing, other than clay formula or generalities?
 
Here is an excerpt from an interview with Jim Blanchard of (then) ASM, which was posted on the other (blue) site:

"[ASM does] what's called high-pressure, high-temperature molding process. We're using 150-ton presses, and we're using 250+ degrees of temperature. So, the combination of the two gives a very, very sharp detail to our chips. As compared to the common company we get compared to, Paulson. Paulson does just the opposite. They use a low-pressure, low-temperature process."​

There is some other interesting information in that post, including a discussion of colors, edgespots and molds.
 

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