What do you do when you’re ridiculously stuck in a session?

RivieraDanny

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No please I want to understand..... So not only did the give you your money back, trusted you to not call authorities, your not letting it lay? you persuing them with investigators? AFTER the fact? you're going to run up against a crew with that kind of funding and that elaborate of a game? and not to expect repercussions from the Armenians...or the foreign owner of the house for rent at 85,000 a month who will loose his rent if the guys are busted? wow youre a brave man!!
 

Josh Kifer

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Legend5555

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Cool story… What’s the next word in that meme? ;^)

What happened… Simple questions were asked about a tale growing more extravagant by the day. As has happened with others in similar threads, queries about key details are first treated with consternation, then indignation, then with outright hostility.

Certain elements in this story seem off to me. Sorry, they just do. Or at least they feel speculative. There might be perfectly good explanations. But instead of calm answers, the replies are “That’s confidential” or “I’ve distanced myself from that part” and eventually “How dare you!”

I (quite gently) suggested that WW entertain the possibility that there might be some misunderstanding or other explanation. Not because I “feel sorry” for the hosts, but because that should be part of ordinary due diligence.

I understand that some are easily impressed by displays of wealth, or claims of top secret military-grade cred, or other resorts to credentials in place of facts. The stakes, the toney venue, the brainy waitress… We want to imagine a movie-like scenario. But glamorous elements don’t in themselves make a story more or less credible.

The problem is the same whether you’re playing .50/$1 or 50/100: Is the game rigged, and what is the evidence? There are other threads on similar topics related to home games, and these have included plenty of back-and-forth debate. But on this thread, it’s a sin to ask normal questions or suggest alternative explanations.

Was WW cheated? I don’t know how anyone could say, based solely on what has been posted. He might well have been. I know I couldn’t write a magazine feature about it without a ton of caveats and disclaimers, and without a lot more confirmation than “my guy says so and I trust him.”

Now, if we wake up to an LA Times story about a bust of a crooked ring in a swanky neighborhood that was defrauding high stakes gamblers, I’ll be the first to applaud WW. Dirty games are bad for poker, period.

Until then, the burden is on the storyteller to make his case—not on those who have been following along in all sincerity, but have spotted some red flags that suggest something else might be going on.
So do you want to go and ask for proof from every single other person that has brought up this topic about games they have played in?
 

Legend5555

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The turn this thread has taken truly makes me giggle.

@Taghkanic asked some questions that outside of a WW thread are completely tame. Questioning the details. But that’s not ok if it’s a WW thread? Anything WW posts HAS to be true?? Just because he makes so many jealous with the money he throws around??

I work in Private Equity. I work with several hundred ‘family offices’ and few have a ‘security force’ to call upon for a personal debt issue like discussed here. Does WW’s family have one? I really don’t care. But stats side with no so as @Taghkanic said, certain things in the story don’t add up which makes questions ok.

I welcome myself to the asshat clause!
It's not that he asked the questions. It's that he keeps asking them even after getting answers. We can't prove almost anything any of us say on here. So continuing to harp on the point after receiving answers is just pointless.
 

DZPoker

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It's not that he asked the questions. It's that he keeps asking them even after getting answers. We can't prove almost anything any of us say on here. So continuing to harp on the point after receiving answers is just pointless.
They have not been answered. At least, not to my personal liking and I trust that of several others?

It has been fun though!!
 

RivieraDanny

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Well I love a good story.... ABSOLUTELY love a good story! This one reads like a bond movie its so good. But I keep waiting for the SMASH ending! It cant just end with the guys running the 100's of thousands of dollar games in the 85K a month rented house with all the gadgets to cheat with just gave me my money back and let me walk away......THEN I'm going to continue to investigate and report my findings on the internet forum for all to see.... THATS NOT A GOOD ENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

RivieraDanny

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So do you want to go and ask for proof from every single other person that has brought up this topic about games they have played in?
How many people out here play in games with 40K buy ins 40K pots and credit available at the game after you loose 40K
 

Windwalker

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One small clarification, because it keeps coming up, and I’m sensitive to racial profiling. At no time did I say the people who ran the game were Armenian, not that they were gangsters. Please read the post that talks about it carefully.

As I said previously, I’ll leave this be till I have an update!
 

RivieraDanny

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Ok take Armenian out of it.... replace it with the term "ANYONE able to finance that size action" But never insinuate that I racially profile... EVER as I do not. Casting dispersions on ones questioners is the first method to make others doubt your inquisitor. That's not happening here....... Admit your tale got just a bit too tall and I'll still have respect.
 

RivieraDanny

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A normal human being being cheated out of 40K+ doesn't post it on a internet forum with updates to follow....they take the beating quietly and dont return or they call the police and turn the game in..... NOT hire investigators. I fully believe that your story is 100% Bull... Come clean and be done with it!
 

RivieraDanny

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For a second I was worried the perps were Albanian and not Armenian. That would be require somebody with a really particular set of skills to save the day.
No they don't cheat card games They steal your daughter. Right? Well according to Liam anyway! HA hey.... don't be racist against Albanians!
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Tarheel4Life

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BRB patenting a machine that non-randomly shuffles cards for use in playing games that require such cards to be organized in a pre-determined fashion so as to be used in games of (ostensibly) chance. I’m going to call it (waves arm across the sky) The Monkey Shuffler.
 

Taghkanic

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So do you want to go and ask for proof from every single other person that has brought up this topic about games they have played in?

Well, when I posted about kicking someone out of my own game who was caught cheating after a two-month investigation*, I was peppered with questions — some of them off-point, some hostile, but many constructive.

Yes, questions of proof came up, though my main goal was to get help with the politics of the situation.

Overall, all of the questioning was helpful.

What would be the purpose of belonging to a community of diverse and skeptical minds if one used it only for validation?



* No former Navy Seals, MI6 agents, or French Foreign Legion officers were involved
 

Taghkanic

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People seem to think the word “gangster” exclusively connotes “drug dealers who do drive by shootings.”

According to the story, as described, apparently:

1) There are multiple people involved in an organized and elaborate scheme to deliberately defraud strangers of large sums of money;

2) Said organization has actively colluded to create this racket;

3) Said racket includes rental of at least one property for a criminal purpose, hosting of illegal gambling, development of technology to perform a fraud, payment of scouts to identify and deliver victims, providing inducements to keep victims involved (alcohol, food, grooming, et al), payment of collaborators to enact and participate in that fraud, etc.

4) Perhaps most crucially, it also involves the extension of large amounts of unregulated credit, at times using electronic financial/banking systems, with the knowledge that their “end” of this credit system is backed by a fraud, and that the borrower will lose their loan with almost complete certainty.

(Note: It has not been mentioned what if any interest would have been charged had debts not been settled promptly, or what means would be used to collect if borrowers defaulted.)

Taken together, one can call these activities, racketeering, organized crime, gangsterism, or whatever descriptive term one prefers. Either way, such coordinated activity seems quite distinct from homeowners hosting unraked, unrigged private games for friends, in the eyes of the law as I understand it.
 

Taghkanic

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Just reviewing what was claimed.

As described, it can fairly be described as gangster activity. *As described*

P.S. The inclusion of the nationality of the hosts seemed gratuitous, but perhaps the author thought it made the story somehow more vivid or more credible, or both. (FWIW I traveled in Armenia in the mid-80s. Best food in the USSR by a longshot. Dipped my toes in the stunningly clear blue waters of Lake Sevan. Saw Mount Ararat across the Turkish border. Terrific people.)
 

TheDuke

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To be fair to the OP, the nationality of the property managers was included. NOT the people running the game.

I find people on this forum seem to misread things very often and a thread subsequently gets derailed with incorrect details.
 

ekricket

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To be fair to the OP, the nationality of the property managers was included. NOT the people running the game.

I find people on this forum seem to misread things very often and a thread subsequently gets derailed with incorrect details.
Why were people running from the game? Were the Argentinians chasing them? There’s so much missing from this post, but I already have a set of chips from Australia so I’m not interested in trading.
 

Legend5555

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Me either. I’m much more interested in politicians publicly donating pocket change to the grandparents of their political rivals.
Not only is it apples and oranges, but this comment is completely unnecessary here. You have no shame do you? Don't bring that sub forum's stuff here. It's disgusting. I don't ever attack you passively aggressively, and I'd like the same respect.
 
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