Studying the game - where do I start? (1 Viewer)

[badbeat37]

Hello folks,
I'm pretty new to poker. I bought a table and chips in January of this year and started hosting a monthly game in February. I run .25/.25 blinds with $10-$40 buy-in with my friends. Even at these low stakes I have been profiting decently (approximately $650 of profit over 7 nights). What started as a social activity has grown into a bit of obsession. I'd like to try my hand at casino play but would like to be a good student of the game before jumping into the 1/3 action of my local casino. Thus far I've played my cards and used my instinct with my opponents (aka friends) to get a read whether or not I've got them dominated. I need some direction. Where do I start? What theories/concept must I learn? How important is understanding poker math and memorizing pre-flop charts? Any shared resources would be much appreciated!

 

[Mushmanchuman]

What's up man? I wrote down my philosophy on a pdf about a year ago. I can send it to you just shoot me your email via pm.

 

[buckeye09076]

Pokercoaching.com has a free course called Master the Fundamentals. Starts out very basic (how you deal the hands, ranking of hands, etc) but then gets into more strategy. I think they also have a free basic like math class that gets into basic odds, pot odds, etc. The game is played a lot differently with friends vs low stakes casino vs higher stakes so you will have to modify your game depending on where you are playing but I think both courses are solid starting points for understanding the game.

 

[LowerBama1714]

Watch WSOP, poker after dark, WPT reruns…like the rest of us.

The older the better.

 

[SwissChip]

Watch WSOP, poker after dark, WPT reruns…like the rest of us.

The older the better.

Good advice!
Try to estimate how much the bet/raise would be. Or how much you would bet/raise in this situation.
The closer you get to the same bet size the better.
And there are books.

Important to know if you want max profit, or just play a few hands and have a good time…
Not the same game imo.

 

[Eriks]

Lot's of free content on Youtube. Haven't watched myself but I hear Jonathan Little is good.

 

[Jers28]

Nothing beats logging hours. It’s fairly easy to log thousands of hours playing 3-5 tables at a time online, which certainly teaches you math probability, etc. I followed up years of logging hundreds of hours playing multiple tables online with reading every book I could find, like Doyle Branson’s Super System, Caro’s Book of Poker Tells, etc. Having said that, this isn’t 2003, so you’ve got better options.

As the previous guys mentioned, watching old stuff is awesome. I watched WPT events as often as they could be found back in the day right up until I was good enough to play in some. I still enjoy them. The older the better for sure.

There’s so much stuff available on YouTube these days. You could do a whole lot worse than watching Brad Owen’s vlog. He’s funny as hell (to me) and if you watch his oldest stuff, he was bloody awful. But, he’s come a long way and is solid these days. You can learn a lot by watching his mistakes and trying to not duplicate them. He still can’t find the fold button often enough for small stakes games on a large river shove (they almost always have it in small stakes if they jam on the river). If you want to watch stuff that’s super basic, but sound, Nathan (blackrain79.com) is solid. He talks to you like you’re a moron, but if you want to really simplify the game, he’s solid. If you want to get deeper into the weeds, I like the detailed breakdown of hands you can get by watching CrushLivePoker. Bart is very knowledgeable, has tons of success playing the game as a pro, being a commentator, poker coach, etc. I didn’t care for him initially, but he’s grown on me a lot, because he’s not the dickhead he comes across as sometimes. lol. I don’t agree with him 100% of the time, but you can say that about anyone. He definitely goes deep into the weeds on advanced game strategy. He’s also very good at explaining the differences with what works in say a $1/$2 vs a $10/$20 vs a $100/$200 game. Generally speaking, keep it simple at small stakes and you’ll do fine.

Anyway, there’s a ton of great content, just find stuff that most closely resembles the game level you’re playing at. There’s no sense knowing advanced GTO strategies and trying to put a put a killer bluff through on a $1/$2 game vs a calling station. So, start basic and work your way up. There’s no substitute for playing live poker vs complete strangers to test your skills and educate yourself. Just try not to let those lessons cost too much!

Good luck and welcome to poker!

 

[badbeat37]

What's up man? I wrote down my philosophy on a pdf about a year ago. I can send it to you just shoot me your email via pm.

PM sent! Thanks a lot!

 

[badbeat37]

Pokercoaching.com has a free course called Master the Fundamentals. Starts out very basic (how you deal the hands, ranking of hands, etc) but then gets into more strategy. I think they also have a free basic like math class that gets into basic odds, pot odds, etc. The game is played a lot differently with friends vs low stakes casino vs higher stakes so you will have to modify your game depending on where you are playing but I think both courses are solid starting points for understanding the game.

I’ll have to check that out. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[badbeat37]

Watch WSOP, poker after dark, WPT reruns…like the rest of us.

The older the better.

I’ve been watching a ton of WPT. I think I’m on season 14 now, shoutout to Tubi allowing me to watch it all for free haha. I like that they have that little segment “the raw deal” where Tony Dunst breaks down situations (what players may have been thinking or representing in a certain hand). Will definitely branch out and watch some other poker programs!

 

[badbeat37]

Good advice!
Try to estimate how much the bet/raise would be. Or how much you would bet/raise in this situation.
The closer you get to the same bet size the better.
And there are books.

Important to know if you want max profit, or just play a few hands and have a good time…
Not the same game imo.

Predicting the bet sizing is a neat idea I hadn’t thought of. I’ll give that a try! I did pick up a book by Jonathan little, “strategies for beating small stakes poker cash games”. I think I’ll have to give it another read as I don’t think I retained much of it. I’ve also heard people recommend “the theory of poker” by David Sklansky. Is that one worth the read? Would a novice like me be able to understand and get anything out of it? Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[badbeat37]

Lot's of free content on Youtube. Haven't watched myself but I hear Jonathan Little is good.

I’ve watched a few YouTubers play such as Wolfgang poker and hungry horse poker. I’ll have to look more into those big names and see what sort of content they have. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[LotsOfChips]

I need some direction. Where do I start? What theories/concept must I learn? How important is understanding poker math and memorizing pre-flop charts?

IMO, poker is largely a game of math, including the field of probability. Understanding pot odds, hand equity, number of outs to hit your hand, probability of hitting those outs, etc. is fundamental to the game. Any study of the game should start with a solid understanding of the math and probability (IMO).

While very old (and some say outdated, but I disagree), Sklansky's Theory of Poker is still highly relevant, and is probably the foundation of every other book written on poker math.

Preflop charts are good, but rather than trying to memorize them for every situation, it is better (IMO) to understand the concepts that they are using. Playing much tighter out of position, loosening your range when in position and facing no previous bets, etc. are what these charts are based on. Loosening or tightening your opening range based on opponent tendencies is also important, and isn't shown in any chart. Reviewing charts and then developing your strategy based on the concepts they were built with is better (IMO) than trying to memorize charts for every situation.

But I am not a professional player, so take the above FWIW.

 

[badbeat37]

Nothing beats logging hours. It’s fairly easy to log thousands of hours playing 3-5 tables at a time online, which certainly teaches you math probability, etc. I followed up years of logging hundreds of hours playing multiple tables online with reading every book I could find, like Doyle Branson’s Super System, Caro’s Book of Poker Tells, etc. Having said that, this isn’t 2003, so you’ve got better options.

As the previous guys mentioned, watching old stuff is awesome. I watched WPT events as often as they could be found back in the day right up until I was good enough to play in some. I still enjoy them. The older the better for sure.

There’s so much stuff available on YouTube these days. You could do a whole lot worse than watching Brad Owen’s vlog. He’s funny as hell (to me) and if you watch his oldest stuff, he was bloody awful. But, he’s come a long way and is solid these days. You can learn a lot by watching his mistakes and trying to not duplicate them. He still can’t find the fold button often enough for small stakes games on a large river shove (they almost always have it in small stakes if they jam on the river). If you want to watch stuff that’s super basic, but sound, Nathan (blackrain79.com) is solid. He talks to you like you’re a moron, but if you want to really simplify the game, he’s solid. If you want to get deeper into the weeds, I like the detailed breakdown of hands you can get by watching CrushLivePoker. Bart is very knowledgeable, has tons of success playing the game as a pro, being a commentator, poker coach, etc. I didn’t care for him initially, but he’s grown on me a lot, because he’s not the dickhead he comes across as sometimes. lol. I don’t agree with him 100% of the time, but you can say that about anyone. He definitely goes deep into the weeds on advanced game strategy. He’s also very good at explaining the differences with what works in say a $1/$2 vs a $10/$20 vs a $100/$200 game. Generally speaking, keep it simple at small stakes and you’ll do fine.

Anyway, there’s a ton of great content, just find stuff that most closely resembles the game level you’re playing at. There’s no sense knowing advanced GTO strategies and trying to put a put a killer bluff through on a $1/$2 game vs a calling station. So, start basic and work your way up. There’s no substitute for playing live poker vs complete strangers to test your skills and educate yourself. Just try not to let those lessons cost too much!

Good luck and welcome to poker!

Wow, thanks for the thorough post! I’ll definitely have to check out those different YouTubers to start building up my foundation of knowledge. I know there is definitely going to be a learning curve going from a .25/.25 home game to a 1/3 casino game but getting the experience in and the jitters out will be quite exciting I imagine!

 

[Mojo1312]

What is the buy-in amounts and rake at your local casino?

 

[VerdeChipper]

Jjust know that the low stakes live games are trainwrecks. Usually fun though.
"Hard to bluff idiots" Doyle Brunson

I'm an analog guy ever since Black Friday (Lost quite a bit and did not get in on the settlements) so... I still like books. Some of the classics still apply:
Caro's Book of Tells, Dan Harrington's books on Hold 'em are great as well.

 

[suchj0sh]

I like Bart’s content on the crush live YouTube quite a bit. Gives you a good sense of how to work through reading hands as they progress.

 

[badbeat37]

IMO, poker is largely a game of math, including the field of probability. Understanding pot odds, hand equity, number of outs to hit your hand, probability of hitting those outs, etc. is fundamental to the game. Any study of the game should start with a solid understanding of the math and probability (IMO).

While very old (and some say outdated, but I disagree), Sklansky's Theory of Poker is still highly relevant, and is probably the foundation of every other book written on poker math.

Preflop charts are good, but rather than trying to memorize them for every situation, it is better (IMO) to understand the concepts that they are using. Playing much tighter out of position, loosening your range when in position and facing no previous bets, etc. are what these charts are based on. Loosening or tightening your opening range based on opponent tendencies is also important, and isn't shown in any chart. Reviewing charts and then developing your strategy based on the concepts they were built with is better (IMO) than trying to memorize charts for every situation.

But I am not a professional player, so take the above FWIW.

Math was my favourite subject in school so it looks like it’s time to rekindle that relationship lol. I definitely need to learn more about positioning and ranges. Specifically how to take advantage of my position, improve decision making on bet sizing, when to call, and when to let it go. I imagine figuring out my opponents ranges will help with that as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[badbeat37]

What is the buy-in amounts and rake at your local casino?

The buy-in for the 1/3 game is $100-$500 with a 10% rake up to a max of $9.

 

[badbeat37]

Jjust know that the low stakes live games are trainwrecks. Usually fun though.
"Hard to bluff idiots" Doyle Brunson

I'm an analog guy ever since Black Friday (Lost quite a bit and did not get in on the settlements) so... I still like books. Some of the classics still apply:
Caro's Book of Tells, Dan Harrington's books on Hold 'em are great as well.

I’ll have to add those to the ol’ amazon cart!

 

[badbeat37]

I like Bart’s content on the crush live YouTube quite a bit. Gives you a good sense of how to work through reading hands as they progress.

sounds like Bart’s getting pretty good reviews. Definitely on my list!

 

[VerdeChipper]

It's ALWAYS good to know the math. It becomes second nature. But, I'll say it again - Low stakes live games are trainwrecks. You can put some people on a range of hands, but most will play any 2, so keep that in mind. Keep your home game going. Play as many hands as you can. There is no substitute. It's weird, but I find it easier to play in higher stakes games, but much more fun to play the train wrecks. You'll find that the casino is very similar to your home game at low stakes. You'll be fine. Just sit down at table and let it go around a few times and watch the table. Try and play at a table that is having FUN. You'll find that you can fit right in. Just remember: "If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker." - Mike McDermott, Rounders.

 

[VerdeChipper]

.

 

[Mojo1312]

A 10% rake capped at $9 is substantial in a $1/$3 game. Can it be profitable? Yes, however the real question is how comfortable will you feel when you are sitting at the table and someone opens for $18 or $20 or your open raise to x gets four or five callers.

My rule of thumb is if the thought of bringing three bullets to a game makes you uncomfortable, then you aren't ready for a jump in stakes.

Of course, you can overcome that by being selective on what hands you play and the pots you enter or by being disciplined enough to confine the length of your sessions to two or three hours.

Don't be fooled by those who say you need to be on your toes because $1/$3 games tend to play loose. I have played in my share of loose $2/$5 games.
Just work on making the necessary adjustments when the time comes. Too rigid a playing style can be exploited or rob you of the enjoyment you typically experience playing at home.

 

[DrStrange]

OP might find the most important poker skill to master is not to play in a game with a major rake / time charge / seat fee / promotional drops.

Here is my math for this situation: The house is pulling $9 rake on most of the hands that see a flop. Let's just call it 25 rakeable hands per hour X $9 = $225 / per hour leaving the table. If Hero's typical session is six hours, then the house gets $1,350 from the table. Hero's share of the cost is a loss of ~~$25 - $30 per hour. It likely worse than that given dealer and staff tips plus promotional costs on top of the rake. ($150 - $180 in expenses per six hour session OR $35,000 - $40,000 in rake per year if Hero plays 30 hours a week with a two week vacation.)

In theory, any game is beatable if the skill difference is large enough. In practice the massive rake gobbles up most of the money sloshing around the table, leaving scraps for the strongest players. I doubt 5% of the players facing a 10% rake to $9 are profitable and then mostly marginally profitable. Not many players have a win rake in excess of $25 - $30 per hour in a $1/$3 game And if they do win so much, it rarely is much more than $30 hour, barely enough to cover the rake.

Finding your way into a better gaming environment is a clearer pathway to profits. Not easy but likely not nearly as hard as learning to increase your poker skills to climb to the tip top of the field.

Find your way into private games. They are out there. Paying the rake is for suckers -=- DrStrange

 

[Coyote]

The fundamentals never get substantially outdated, especially concerning the lower-capability 90% of players.
Doyle's Super System and the much more systematical Harrington's books are a good point to start.
You 'll be able to absorb and assimilate quite little on the first reading, 'cause you will have not faced the pain of specific situations.
Only through frequent playing will you be able to learn what your read, probably around the third of fourth reading.
That should be enough if you 're not interested in becoming even semi- pro and are just happy to follow you hobby without paying a price.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

At 1/2 and 1/3 most moderate to advanced poker strategies are not applicable to the player pool. They open way too wide, way under-bluff the river, and don’t follow GTO betting guides which are what GTO strategy is all based on. I’ve found that coach Andreas Wagner at Live Poker Guide on YouTube to be a great source of info based on this ‘exploitable’ situation. I’ve doubled my casino win rate from ~$7/hr to ~$15/hr (net profit after 5% & $8 capped rake) using his tips and suggestions. He’s recently combined his most useful stuff into a 3 hour long video, which I suggest you consider watching:

Also, the casino game is MUCH faster and can make your head spin a bit with chips going in and out of the pot very quickly for change and rake drops, auto shufflers, and 25+ hands an hour. The way the game is run live in a casino is as much a part of the game as the cards and betting are. See my previous post when another PCFer was going from online to live play as most of it is also applicable to your situation:

Post in thread 'Going from Online to Casino'

Since your playing mostly for fun and not making a career out of it, go test the water at the casino, make the leap into the game (even with the higher rake), see how you do, and HAVE FUN!… that’s what I did 3 years ago.

 

[MDchips]

sounds like Bart’s getting pretty good reviews. Definitely on my list!

Another vote for Bart; particularly because he has a lot of free content on YouTube. I do feel like his videos are mostly 2/5 as opposed to 1/2 or 1/3, and there is more bluffing in 2/5 and Bart’s analysis subsequently includes calling river james in some spots that are rarely bluffs in 1/2 or 1/3. He’s definitely a good poker mind and coach.