Watch me fail? Fun with milling, labeling, CNC, 3D prints, and lasers! (1 Viewer)

[GreekRedEye]

I like to make things, but don't think I am good enough to call myself a "Maker." Thought I would create a thread to post my attempts and inevitable failures to make poker chip related things.

First, there is this post where I fall flat on my face trying to make labels at home. I think there is useful info, but the result was...well...embarrassing. Still plan to do other rounds of custom labels to learn and improve and hopefully pass along some helpful tips.

I won't have access to my CNC router or laser for a few more months, but I recently impulse-bought a cheap drill press and 7/8" surfacing bit. Here is my first attempt to dial in a a label recess mill. I expect it will take me 3 to 4 chips before I have it and then I (hope) to mill out a couple hundred in the next two weeks.

Side 1 (way to too deep and off center):

Side 2 (better depth, but a little off center still):

 

[Colquhoun]

I like to make things, but don't think I am good enough to call myself a "Maker." Thought I would create a thread to post my attempts and inevitable failures to make poker chip related things.

First, there is this post where I fall flat on my face trying to make labels at home. I think there is useful info, but the result was...well...embarrassing. Still plan to do other rounds of custom labels to learn and improve and hopefully pass along some helpful tips.

I won't have access to my CNC router or laser for a few more months, but I recently impulse-bought a cheap drill press and 7/8" surfacing bit. Here is my first attempt to dial in a a label recess mill. I expect it will take me 3 to 4 chips before I have it and then I (hope) to mill out a couple hundred in the next two weeks.

View attachment 1283282View attachment 1283283

Side 1 (way to too deep and off center):
View attachment 1283284

Side 2 (better depth, but a little off center still):
View attachment 1283285

Getting them completely centered within the mold will be impossible. Most molds are a bit off-center, so it will always be a little imperfect. That’s why most hotstamps do not appear perfectly centered.
As long as the chip is secured from spinning or wobbling, go slow and don’t go very deep, and it should be fine. One easy mistake is making it too deep, but if you have some sample labels to try, it will give you an idea of the best depth. I was amazed how shallow the recess needs to be for a laminated Gear label to fit nicely.

 

[RadicusScout]

Where lasers?!!

 

[GreekRedEye]

Where lasers?!!

I have a laser in storage. Will have access to it in about 5 months. I am planning on posting periodically to this thread over time, so eventually, yes, I will post some stuff using the laser!

 

[GreekRedEye]

Getting them completely centered within the mold will be impossible. Most molds are a bit off-center, so it will always be a little imperfect. That’s why most hotstamps do not appear perfectly centered.
As long as the chip is secured from spinning or wobbling, go slow and don’t go very deep, and it should be fine. One easy mistake is making it too deep, but if you have some sample labels to try, it will give you an idea of the best depth. I was amazed how shallow the recess needs to be for a laminated Gear label to fit nicely.

Good advice. The black jig you see in the photo I 3d printed. I had adhesion issues on bottom layer, so it is a bit ugly but functional. It has a lip in the central hole that helps keep the chip down. I have a push stick in a raceway that also has a lip and it keeps the chip from spinning.

 

[ekricket]

That’s why most hotstamps do not appear perfectly centered.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Getting them completely centered within the mold will be impossible. Most molds are a bit off-center, so it will always be a little imperfect. That’s why most hotstamps do not appear perfectly centered.
As long as the chip is secured from spinning or wobbling, go slow and don’t go very deep, and it should be fine. One easy mistake is making it too deep, but if you have some sample labels to try, it will give you an idea of the best depth. I was amazed how shallow the recess needs to be for a laminated Gear label to fit nicely.

Yup! This.

 

[Salmonblaster]

Following...or whatever the kids say these days.

 

[GreekRedEye]

All right! I have it dialed in now, both center and depth. About to knock out a couple hundred.

And yes, @Colquhoun and @Josh Kifer you are right about the center. It is never perfect and varies slightly from chip to chip. Comparing with other chips I have, I think my tolerances are at least as good if not better. So pressing (pun not intended) forward!

 

[GreekRedEye]

All right, got a rack done. Took about an hour. I think with practice and a better jig, could do a rack in 40 minutes. Going to stop there for today. I don't have the most ergonomic setup, so my back is killing me! Need to set up better to finish the other racks.

I found the center of the bit seemed to wander further "up" the chip as I went along. Figured out fine chip dust collects in the jig and slowly moves the chip down, making the recess a little more off center. Found swiping a bent paperclip around the edges of the jig every 4 or 5 chips seemed to fix that problem.

 

[GreekRedEye]

Another couple of racks done. Taking me about 50 minutes for a full rack. So about 30 seconds a chip or 15 seconds a side on average.

I started breaking chips. The first rack (blue) no breakage. Second rack (yellow) I broke one chip near the end. Third rack (white) I broke four in the first barrel or so. I think the bit is dulling but I was maintaining my plunge speed, resulting in greater force on the chips. I went more slowly after that and only broke only one more. I'm going to replace my bit before I do the last batch (three racks of reds). If I had a better quality bit probably would have lasted longer. For those who mill chips...how long does your bit normally last?

 

[GreekRedEye]

I took video of me milling a chip. I don't want to create a youtube account to upload one video, so I converted it to a .gif (sorry for the low resolution).

The 3d printed jig is bolted to the drill press plate. It has a recess just big enough for the chip. The jig has a small lip near the back (furthest from me). The push stick (also 3d printed) slides in a raceway in the jig. The push stick is radiused the same as the chip and it also has a small lip. So, with the push stick pressed against the chip, the chip is well secured on all sides and from above (the two lips). But it is a bit of a pain to pull the chip out with my fingers. I also have to stop the press every time I reach for the chip (if I want to keep my fingers). And dust starts to collect in the jig recess after a few chips (you can see me using a pink paperclip to clear out some dust). It works fine for a few hundred chips. But if I were to do thousands, I'd probably alter the jig design.

 

[Colquhoun]

I have a bit from Magnate and have done about 500 chips, bit shows no difference in wear, still as good on the last as the first. Frankly, chip clay shouldn’t dull the bit much, the clay is pretty soft in comparison to other materials.
I’m surprised to see broken chips. Could be you are going too fast and there’s too much pressure. Let the press do the work. I do take about twice as long per side than you do in the video, though…

 

[GreekRedEye]

I have a bit from Magnate and have done about 500 chips, bit shows no difference in wear, still as good on the last as the first. Frankly, chip clay shouldn’t dull the bit much, the clay is pretty soft in comparison to other materials.
I’m surprised to see broken chips. Could be you are going too fast and there’s too much pressure. Let the press do the work. I do take about twice as long per side than you do in the video, though…

The gif speeds things up some. I'm not that fast. But, yes, I was going too quickly and applying too much pressure. Maybe I was speeding up unconsciously as I got into a groove.

Or maybe the cheap bit was dulling. These chips have brass flakes. A properly hardened carbide bit should have no problem with brass. Another possibility is that the white chips are just more fragile for some reason and I needed to take it easier.

A 7/8 inch surfacing bit from Magnate is $28 shipped
https://www.amazon.com/Magnate-Surface-Planing-Bottom-Cleaning/dp/B0093C1XKM

The 7/8 inch bit I bought is $13 shipped
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HNFCSJZ

If the Magnate bit lasts more than twice as long, then false economy on the cheaper bit. Get what you pay for, I guess.

 

[GreekRedEye]

The red really does make this feel like murder. I'm planning on milling up the last chips I need to complete the Wolford Longhorn set today. I broke the first chip right off the bat.

After that, I have imagined Groundskeeper Willer whispering in my ear, "Go easy Lad, take it slow..." as I mill each chip. I am a little creeped out, but no more broken chips!

 

[Boother36]

Looks like you need to rig up a small shop vac near you cutting bit to keep your work area clean....

 

[GreekRedEye]

Looks like you need to rig up a small shop vac near you cutting bit to keep your work area clean....

I like the chip guts strewn about, all over the table and floor. Even my shirt!

This is a temp setup. If this were permanent, I would for sure set up a vacuum. When I'm done with these I am going to list the drill, bits, and jig for local pickup for interested PCFers.

 

[GreekRedEye]

Trying my hand at flattening chips this morning.

Here are the candidates. I have 4 barrels of these (EDIT - these are ASM HHR chips):

Method 1 taken from:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/flattening-chips-question.67486/
(Mostly @Colquhoun 's directions)

• Preheat electric blanket / heating pad
• Put chips in clamp with 43mm ceramic blanks
• Put clamped chips in the blanket for 10 minutes then remove
• Tighten a smidge
• Let them cool completely before removing from clamp

Method 2 taken from:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/flattening-old-hhl-chips.110797/#post-2359624
(@AK Chip 's directions)

• Put chips in clamp with 43mm ceramic blanks
• Place in cold oven, turn oven on to 350 degrees
• When oven hits temp, pull chips out
• Wait 30 minutes, then tighten a smidge
• Let them cool completely before removing from clamp

I will report back in a couple hours on the results.

 

[GreekRedEye]

Some photos and initial results...

I am trying to flatten some old HHRs I milled (now that I think of it, order of operations should probably be flatten, then mill):

This is my clamp set up. (I know folks recommend larger wooden vise, but this is what I have that is oven proof. I'm looking at only a few barrels to do, so I can live with small batches).

An untreated stack of six:

Method 1:

Method 2:

Assessment:
Method 2 is better. I tried to select 3 stacks that were comparable, but there is of course variation between the stacks. I realize I should have done before and after photos of each. I may still do that. Method 1 improved the stack a bit, but not a lot. I did not see squishing, but I was reluctant to close the vise more than a hair. Method 2 delivered better results and no squishing either. I also only tightened the vise a hair at the 30 minute mark. I have them in front of me and Method 2 stack has fewer gaps and is less wobbly than Method 1. Still not perfect, but a definite improvement and if I select out the worst offenders and redo them, it may improve more.

Wild Speculation:
I believe Paulson clay/plastic melts at a lower temperature. And ASMs/CPCs at a higher temp. I suspect that Method 1 (heating blanket) seems to work for Paulsons due to the lower melting point. But it does not work for ASMs/CPCs or results in squishing maybe because the chips are not soft enough to be plastic enough and to get results you have to tighten more and then you get squishing. It could also be that the outside of the chip is warmer/plastic but the inside is not and this contributes to squishing. But the oven method gets the chip up to a higher temperature and the long wait time before tightening might help ensure more even temperature throughout the chip.

 

[GreekRedEye]

A 7/8 inch surfacing bit from Magnate is $28 shipped
https://www.amazon.com/Magnate-Surface-Planing-Bottom-Cleaning/dp/B0093C1XKM

The 7/8 inch bit I bought is $13 shipped
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HNFCSJZ

If the Magnate bit lasts more than twice as long, then false economy on the cheaper bit. Get what you pay for, I guess.

Do not buy the crappy bit. I purchased a second one and switched it out. World of difference! Cut like butter. But after 6 barrels, it is dulling already. I think I can finish the rack I'm on, but I def have to press harder and I risk breaking a chip. Slower going too. Lifespan seems to be about 2 racks of ASMs with brass flakes. I'm going to have to order a third one to finish this project off. I'm sticking with the same bit for now so I have uniformity across the millings done for this set.

But, if you are starting a new project, go with the Magnate or something better.

 

[Colquhoun]

Trying my hand at flattening chips this morning.

Here are the candidates. I have 4 barrels of these (EDIT - these are ASM HHR chips):
View attachment 1299330

Method 1 taken from:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/flattening-chips-question.67486/
(Mostly @Colquhoun 's directions)

• Preheat electric blanket / heating pad
• Put chips in clamp with 43mm ceramic blanks
• Put clamped chips in the blanket for 10 minutes then remove
• Tighten a smidge
• Let them cool completely before removing from clamp

Method 2 taken from:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/flattening-old-hhl-chips.110797/#post-2359624
(@AK Chip 's directions)

• Put chips in clamp with 43mm ceramic blanks
• Place in cold oven, turn oven on to 350 degrees
• When oven hits temp, pull chips out
• Wait 30 minutes, then tighten a smidge
• Let them cool completely before removing from clamp

I will report back in a couple hours on the results.

You did Method 1 incorrectly, that's why they didnt flatten. Don't clamp the chips before heating them, the heat will never permeate the chip in 10 minutes. Instead, place the chips loose on the pad and fold it over, and 10 minutes will heat the chip completely through. Pull them out and clamp them LIGHTLY...and no need to tighten later. You can flatten multiple racks in an evening.
Photos and details are here:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/flattening-warped-chips.3903/page-5#post-1344277

 

[GreekRedEye]

You did Method 1 incorrectly, that's why they didnt flatten. Don't clamp the chips before heating them, the heat will never permeate the chip in 10 minutes. Instead, place the chips loose on the pad and fold it over, and 10 minutes will heat the chip completely through. Pull them out and clamp them LIGHTLY...and no need to tighten later. You can flatten multiple racks in an evening.
Photos and details are here:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/flattening-warped-chips.3903/page-5#post-1344277

Thanks. I just pulled a batch out of the oven. I'm going to run a batch via heating blanket now and then compare. With before and after photos. The blanket is definitely faster, so I will be happy if it works.

I will post results again this evening.