Villain tries triple barrel: Do you call turn? (1 Viewer)

[boltonguy]

Ignition Hand #4070249746 Zone Poker ID#1692 HOLDEMZonePoker No Limit - 2021-02-07 19:40:47
Table Info: Version: 1, Type: Ignition, Stakes: $0.10-$0.25
Seat 1: UTG+2 ($20.84 in chips)
Seat 2: Dealer ($32.72 in chips)
Seat 3: Small Blind ($47.24 in chips)
Seat 4: Big Blind [ME] ($49.79 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG ($26.09 in chips)
Seat 6: UTG+1 ($27.68 in chips)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
UTG+2 : Card dealt to a spot [Qc 3h]
Dealer : Card dealt to a spot [9s 5s]
Small Blind : Card dealt to a spot [4h 7h]
Big Blind [ME] : Card dealt to a spot
UTG : Card dealt to a spot
UTG+1 : Card dealt to a spot [5d 6s]
UTG : Raises $0.75 to $0.75
UTG+1 : Folds
UTG+2 : Folds
Dealer : Folds
Small Blind : Folds
Big Blind [ME] : Calls $0.50
Pot is $1.60

*** FLOP ***
Big Blind [ME] : Checks
UTG : Bets $0.50 - 1/3 pot range cbet is standard
Big Blind [ME] : Calls $0.50 - Hero calling to see turn for this price.
Pot is $2.60

*** TURN ***
Big Blind [ME] : Checks - QK comes in but we're not folding to a bet with a set
UTG : Bets $4.10 - Nice! Villain bets almost 2x pot into hero's set of tens
Big Blind [ME] : Calls $4.10 - Looks fishy; a turned straight isnt going to be trying to blow me off the hand here. Might pot it without the diamond draw but this is a bit much.
Pot is $10.80

*** RIVER *** BAM!
Big Blind [ME] : Checks - Hero no longer worried about the straight ...
UTG : All-in $20.74 - Villain jams 77 into quad tens. Winner triple barrel bluff! What could he possibly think I'm folding here that called turn?
Big Blind [ME] : Calls $20.74

UTG : Showdown [Th Td 7d 7c As] (Two pair)
Big Blind [ME] : Showdown [Ts Th Td Tc As] (Four of a kind)
Big Blind [ME] : Hand result $50.28

Would you have called the turn overbet? For me the sizing is suspect.

 

[kmccormick100]

Personally, I don't think I'm flatting TT there from the big blind, I like a 3b out of position, but maybe that's aggro?

 

[boltonguy]

I think I would probably raise late position opens with TT from BB but not early position generally.
There are also times on Ignition where noone folds pre to a 3! and this could have been one of them.
When noone's folding and I feel like I have no FE, I will flat EP open from BB so I dont have to play a bloated pot OOP with a medium strength hand

 

[boltonguy]

@kmccormick100 Here's an example of no FE pre to a 3! Thank goodness I hit the turn.

Ignition Hand #4059492794 Zone Poker ID#1692 HOLDEMZonePoker No Limit - 2021-01-17 13:52:57
Table Info: Version: 1, Type: Ignition, Stakes: $0.10-$0.25
Seat 1: UTG ($33.37 in chips)
Seat 2: UTG+1 ($13.52 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG+2 ($13.81 in chips)
Seat 4: Dealer ($13.27 in chips)
Seat 5: Small Blind [ME] ($36.05 in chips)
Seat 6: Big Blind ($12.50 in chips)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
UTG : Card dealt to a spot [3c 5s]
UTG+1 : Card dealt to a spot [9h 9s]
UTG+2 : Card dealt to a spot [6d 6h]
Dealer : Card dealt to a spot [Qc Kd]
Small Blind [ME] : Card dealt to a spot [Jc Jh]
Big Blind : Card dealt to a spot [5h 7c]
UTG : Folds
UTG+1 : Raises $0.75 to $0.75
UTG+2 : Calls $0.75
Dealer : Calls $0.75
Small Blind [ME] : Raises $4.40 to $4.50
Big Blind : Folds
UTG+1 : Calls $3.75
UTG+2 : Calls $3.75 - Hero pukes in mouth with 2 callers
Dealer : Folds
Pot is $14.50

*** FLOP *** [7h 4s 9d]
Small Blind [ME] : Bets $1.50
UTG+1 : Calls $1.50
UTG+2 : Calls $1.50

*** TURN *** [7h 4s 9d] [Js] - Hero does dance with top set. Spade draw shouldnt have odds to call jam with one card to come
Small Blind [ME] : All-in $30.05
UTG+1 : All-in $7.52
UTG+2 : All-in $7.81 - I can see 99 calling in +1 with a set but 66 calls??
Small Blind [ME] : Return uncalled portion of bet $22.24

*** RIVER *** [7h 4s 9d Js] [4d]
UTG+1 : Showdown [9s 9h 9d 4s 4d] (Full House)
UTG+2 : Showdown [6h 6d 4s 4d Js] (Two pair)
Small Blind [ME] : Showdown [Js Jh Jc 4s 4d] (Full House)

 

[Legend5555]

Would you have called the turn overbet? For me the sizing is suspect.

I would just raise the turn. There are a decent number of cards that can kill the action on the river and you are OOP. He had 77 in this case, but what about all the times he could have aces up, or a combo draw? Most often at these stakes, people being pot mean exactly what it looks like.

 

[pharaohone]

I would just raise the turn. There are a decent number of calls that can kill the action on the river and you are OOP. He had 77 in this case, but what about all the times he could have aces up, or a combo draw? Most often at these stakes, prior being pot mean exactly what it looks like.

Agree with this. Feels like a good semi bluff spot for V, so I like a raise here too on turn to get a little more value. I also have a hard time just checking the river, since feels like a lot of times you are getting a check behind. Thankfully you ran into a maniac who 3 barrells their stack. Nice hand.

 

[JustinInMN]

Glad you caught a good runout.

I'm good either way with raising or flatting the BB.

Hero calling to see turn for this price.

I don't understand the flop call though. The price isn't a good justification if drawing is the only motivation. If fear of the BB's range is the reason for not 3-betting pre, what about this flop makes you think it's missed villain's range? (I mean we know it did because we saw the end, but you don't really have this read in an anonymous game.)

Glad you hit the turn. The flat is obviously risky, both from straights getting there and either beating you or killing the action. Your line did seem to induce the bluff so it worked out.

 

[liamj]

I think the hand makes sense as played by hero. Villain's line also makes sense, other than firing the river.

Solvers put TT as usually a flat preflop, but solvers also suggest hero defending a much tighter range (~15%) compared to what most players do in reality for BB vs UTG 3x. If your BB defense range is much wider, and especially since rake is a big factor at microstakes, it probably makes sense to 3bet TT a good deal of the time.

How often hero continues on the flop depends on how wide you defend preflop, so it is not clear to me whether TT should be in that range. You already have plenty of bluff catchers on this board (you should have a ton of Ax and some Jx), and it would be better to continue with hands that have more outs to improve, like gutshots or backdoor flush and straight draws. Hero should probably fold some pocket pairs between 44 and TT and call with others. I would rather choose to continue with 88 and fold TT, since TT blocks some of villian's bluff candidates.

On the turn, I think it makes sense for villain to have an overbet range with a large sizing. Most of the very nutted combos (KQ, AA, JJ, TT, AJ, 33) hero will have at a low frequency, since many are 3bet preflop or check-raised on the flop. If villain decides to 2x the pot with these ~37 combos, villain needs to bluff with a lot of combos to be balanced (maybe around 45, since larger sizing means higher bluff to value ratio). The best candidates would be flush or straight draws without showdown value. It is honestly not that easy to find that many good bluffs, though. KTs, K9s, QTs, 98s, 87s, and around 10 additional diamond hands is only 30 combos, so villain needs to bluff with a lot of trash hands (suited connectors) or pocket pairs to get to enough bluffs. 77 with a diamond is not a terrible choice. Although this turn bet looks surprising, I think it is fine play, as long as villain is not bluffing all pocket pairs.

Based on how polarized villain's range should be, it doesn't make sense from a GTO perspective to have a raising range. All you accomplish is folding out villain's bluffs, many of which have 0 or <10% equity versus your hand. I don't agree with the logic that a super strong hand won't use such a large sizing on the turn. Without any specific reads, villain could just as easily be trying to extract max value as to "blow me off a hand". In fact, I would guess that the player pool is severely under bluffing this spot. If villain is a maniac, it is better to call and let villain bluff the river. In the case that villain is weaker player who is doing this with too many medium strength hands, then it could be profitable to raise rather than allow villain to continue firing the river, but I think the default play should be to call with TT.

On the river, I think hero should have a bit more Tx than villain. Hero may have some offsuit AT, JT and maybe KT and QT, while villian should not. Villain's bluffs did not improve much on the river, since it is likely too thin to jam for value with trips. Villain can also no longer value bet two pair. This means villain will need to give up a substantial amount of bluffs, and pocket pairs and Tx are the obvious candidates to do so. Hands with a diamond are even worst to bluff since they block hero's flush draws that would fold to a river jam. I see it is as a clear check back for villain with that specific hand.

Thanks for sharing the hand! It is interesting to see how passively one needs to play versus an overbet on an unfavorable board.