Overplaying the turn in position? (1 Viewer)

[ngmcs8203]

I've been trying to work on my bet sizing and in this spot wasn't sure if my bet size on the turn was too big, therefore squeezing out any marginal hands. After he folded I thought maybe a min-raise would have been better in this position to keep weaker hands around. This was 10 hands into the session.

Bovada / Ignition, Hold'em No Limit - $0.25/$0.50 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

Hero (UTG): $50.33 (101 bb)
Seat 4 (CO): $8.10 (16 bb)
Seat 5 (BU): $50.00 (100 bb)
Seat 6 (SB): $100.57 (201 bb)
Seat 2 (BB): $50.94 (102 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75) Hero (Hero) is UTG with T♠ T♥
Hero (UTG) raises to $1.50, Seat 4 (CO) calls $1.50, 1 fold, Seat 6 (SB) calls $1.25, Seat 2 (BB) calls $1

Flop: ($6) 8♣ T♦ J♥ (4 players)
Seat 6 (SB) bets $4.28, Seat 2 (BB) folds, Hero (UTG) calls $4.28, Seat 4 (CO) folds

Turn: ($14.56) 6♣ (2 players)
Seat 6 (SB) bets $6.92, Hero (UTG) raises to $25.15, Seat 6 (SB) folds

 

[Machine]

So with 17 bucks in the pot you raised 20?
No callers?
I think you’re first mistake was game selection.

I really need a mic drop emoji

3x bet isn’t bad if they guy is an action player but that is also 20% of the avg stack, and 40 x the big blind, which is likely 1/2 the avg buy in for most games of those stakes.

It’s an over bet for sure if you want action from someone that doesn’t have you beat

 

[RagingAZN]

I don’t think the bet is too much of an overbet. After your raise the pot is $46.63 and its $18.23 more for villain.

Sometimes they just don’t have it.

 

[ngmcs8203]

So with 17 bucks in the pot you raised 20?
No callers?
I think you’re first mistake was game selection.

I really need a mic drop emoji

3x bet isn’t bad if they guy is an action player but that is also 20% of the avg stack, and 40 x the big blind, which is likely 1/2 the avg buy in for most games of those stakes.

It’s an over bet for sure if you want action from someone that doesn’t have you beat

There is no game selection on ignition like you might see elsewhere. What size raise would you make with that board texture? I thought with nut and range advantage and connectivity, you bet big and often.

 

[Manjankins]

There are a few things:

Jurojin is a great program that will allow you to click a button got predefined bet sizes in bbs or pot %. GtoWizard is an amazing tool that allows you to see the preferred bet-sizing on the turn when lead into on a double flush board. It will allow you to upload hands from your poker database and will analyze your play compared to gto. Gto wizard allows you to great specific drills for what you want to work on as well. RFI is generally smaller in early position and larger on the button. Example utg opens 2.2x button opens 2.5 x. Some just open 2.5x all around. Freebetrange is a great preflop range viewer for charts as you can quickly and easily acces the range needed. Example a button open 2x, 2.2x , 2.5x, 3x you can easily access your bb calling and 3 bet ranges ba the size chosen. Freebetrange has a drilling tool as well.

 

[ngmcs8203]

There are a few things:

Jurojin is a great program that will allow you to click a button got predefined bet sizes in bbs or pot %. GtoWizard is an amazing tool that allows you to see the preferred bet-sizing on the turn when lead into on a double flush board. It will allow you to upload hands from your poker database and will analyze your play compared to gto. Gto wizard allows you to great specific drills for what you want to work on as well. RFI is generally smaller in early position and larger on the button. Example utg opens 2.2x button opens 2.5 x. Some just open 2.5x all around. Freebetrange is a great preflop range viewer for charts as you can quickly and easily acces the range needed. Example a button open 2x, 2.2x , 2.5x, 3x you can easily access your bb calling and 3 bet ranges ba the size chosen. Freebetrange has a drilling tool as well.

Yep. All good tools that I utilize. GTOWizard is useless in multi-way pots.

 

[Manjankins]

Sorry- thought is was a double flush board. It was not. Usually in position you want to raise smaller and select a size thst would allow a half pot jam on the river uptown a pot-size jam with a set.

 

[Manjankins]

Up to*

 

[Manjankins]

A great 6max cash program is poker detox 30 day camp.

 

[ngmcs8203]

A great 6max cash program is poker detox 30 day camp.

At over $300 a month I’m good with GTOWizard and pokercoaching for now. Thanks though.

 

[Manjankins]

No worries.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Sorry- thought is was a double flush board. It was not. Usually in position you want to raise smaller and select a size thst would allow a half pot jam on the river uptown a pot-size jam with a set.

That’s what my raise size did. I would have had about $30 behind with a $60 pot on the river if he called.

 

[Manjankins]

The preferred play by the solver is predominately call. This exact solution does not exist and it seems as if the AI (ruse) only allows heads-up solutions at this point. The hand you played is not really a thing. At these stakes, you generally play a 3bet or fold strategy because the rake is so high. Even when I plug in the board with the sb and bb calling it does not have a solved spot for this. But the AI heads up and then the library produced this output.

 

[Machine]

There is no game selection on ignition like you light see elsewhere. What size raise would you make with that board texture? I thought with nut and range advantage and connectivity, you bet big and often.

I was being clever, I'm not a fan of No Limit Bored'em, I wasn't actually saying pick a better NLH game, I was saying play a different game, with action!

 

[Manjankins]

Omaha action!

 

[ngmcs8203]

The preferred play by the solver is predominately call. This exact solution does not exist and it seems as if the AI (ruse) only allows heads-up solutions at this point. The hand you played is not really a thing. At these stakes, you generally play a 3bet or fold strategy because the rake is so high. Even when I plug in the board with the sb and bb calling it does not have a solved spot for this. But the AI heads up and then the library produced this output. View attachment 1226136View attachment 1226137

Yup. GTOWizard only has solves for heads-up and calls in certain situations.

 

[Manjankins]

Bet-size looks fine the percent you bet large.

 

[Legend5555]

Against what I'm assuming is a bad player given the lead into 3 people, I'd raise this flop not expecting them to fold almost ever. Then you can bet turn more easily and expect more calls than taking a line that inherently looks super strong.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Against what I'm assuming is a bad player given the lead into 3 people, I'd raise this flop not expecting them to fold almost ever. Then you can bet turn more easily and expect more calls than taking a line that inherently looks super strong.

He felt like a strong player at the table at the moment.

 

[Legend5555]

He felt like a strong player at the table at the moment.

Fair enough. Buy you don't often see good players donk leading 75% pot into 3 players. If there was a flush draw, I think you have to raise. This board still is susceptible to action killing on the turn if a 7, 9, or Q comes. He won't fold flop with any reasonable hand to a raise assuming he's not leading total air. Top pair, pair plus gutter, and any 9 won't fold to a raise. Then you get to better dictate the flow of the hand from there since he will most likely check to you on the turn.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Fair enough. Buy you don't often see good players donk leading 75% pot into 3 players. If there was a flush draw, I think you have to raise. This board still is susceptible to action killing on the turn if a 7, 9, or Q comes. He won't fold flop with any reasonable hand to a raise assuming he's not leading total air. Top pair, pair plus gutter, and any 9 won't fold to a raise. Then you get to better dictate the flow of the hand from there since he will most likely check to you on the turn.

True the donk bet was weird. Maybe he was just willing to triple barrel and i should have saved the raise for the river. The river ended up being a jack so it was probably going to be a check fold or a triple barrel bluff from him. I just wanted to get to a point where a shove was likely on the river and I think I missed it by raising on the flop. However, if I raised and he folded on the flop, it might have prevented this donk bet. I didn't stick around long enough to see if he had a triple barrel bluff range.

 

[Manjankins]

Just a super weird spot.. donk, donk fold..,