Two questions from a SOHE hand (1 Viewer)

snooptodd

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In case you're not familiar with SOHE, it's Simulataneous Omaha and Hold'em. You get dealt 6 cards and split them into a 4-card Omaha hand and a 2-card Hold'em hand. Obviously the decision you make on how to split your hand is huge.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on two things here:

1) How would you split this hand?

Dealt Ah Ad 9d 4s 3d 3h

I'll reveal how I split it, because I don't think my reveal changes a whole lot of thinking. Please feel free to be critical or support my decision, happy to hear arguments for either case.

Omaha: Ad Ah 3d 3h
Hold'em: 9d 4s

2) Given the following situation, what would you do? My memory is a little hazy so the details may not be perfect.

Last hand of the night. Hero sitting on the button with $1200 on $300 buy-in. Blinds of $.25/$.50 with $1 straddle. TAG who can get tricky in some spots is UTG, has about $200, raises to $4. Skilled LAG in cutoff has about $700 and pops to $12, Hero raises to $45, TAG bumps to $150, LAG calls.

Call, raise or pot?
 

detroitdad

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PLO or PLO8

If its PLO. I think I would play it safe.

A/A

9d/4s/3d/3h

If its PLO8

A/A/3/4

9/3

oh, and I hate this game btw, lol
 

Chippy McChiperson

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Jam. And while its nice to have double suited aces in Omaha, I think I'd probably prefer to have the nuts on the Hold'em side. Aces are much more easily cracked in Omaha than in Hold 'em. I mean 8-9-10-J double suited vs Aces double suited (assuming at least one of the suits is live) is practically a flip, and then you have 9-4 for the other half.

- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -

PLO or PLO8

If its PLO. I think I would play it safe.

A/A

9d/4s/3d/3h

If its PLO8

A/A/3/4

9/3

oh, and I hate this game btw, lol

It's PLO, and it's awesome! embrace the variance DD!!!
 

trever

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I like the AA/9433 split better too.
Either way you start with one good hand and one crap one, but a HE AA hand is a lot stronger than an AA33ds PLO hand.
 

Mr Tree

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I'm absolutely taking the AA in the Hold Em hand. That makes you 80% plus to take that part of the pot vs any single hand while the other will be a crap shoot no matter how you cut it.
 

Ben

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Honestly, this decision depends entirely on the game conditions at the time i.e. how much action you expect to get under what circumstances, depth of all stacks, etc. You can split it either way but in each case you will play the hand COMPLETELY differently. I'd say on the button with a reasonable chance to be able to 3-bet big or 4-bet, I would go with the AA in holdem. If I were OOP at the mercy of LAGs in position with very deep stacks, I might split it as you did. Splitting the AA33 on the Omaha side and then 4-betting pre is a huge mistake IMO. You now have a speculative hand with virtually no value on the holdem side. You should be looking to see a favorable flop for your Omaha hand (and favorable flops will tend to be VERY favorable, thus the advantage of splitting this way) as cheaply as possible, not forcing yourself into a situation where you are forced to put your whole stack in with marginal equity on one side, and virtually zero on the other.

As played, I think the correct play is actually to fold. In a 3-way pot, VERY generously we may have 50% equity on the Omaha hand, and 15% equity on the holdem hand. If you can't fold now, I guess call and hope for some sliver of fold equity on an absolutely horrible flop for the LAG - he's definitely never folding to a ship now. Calling here and then folding on any flop is never an option.
 

mike32

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I always play the hold em hand strong, AA as others have stated above. The other hand is Omaha, anything can happen!
 

ssanel54

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Call.

You know all the money is going to get in on this hand, probably multiple ways. You want to see the flop as cheaply as possible since your most likely only playing the Omaha side.
 

bergs

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If game is passive, I put AA on hold em side. If game is loose and full, double suited aces and 3s is not a bad PLO side.

My mindset at SOHE is usually to avoid impossible spots - if you get a lot of heat from a villain with your AA on the hold em side, you're never know if villain flopped a set and basically has you dead, or if they're playing the PLO side. Any naked pair on the holdem side plays pretty badly 3 or more handed.

Its not 100% consistent but putting the aces on the PLO side isn't horrible IMO.
 

Leonard

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Multi-way, I would split it as you have done. Three way, with multiple raises, I would split with AA in the HE hand. Splitting either way gives you one weak and one strong hand, but the strong hand in HE is much closer to a lock than any hand in PLO. And I'm with Ben. I'm not sure folding isn't reasonable. Any way you split it, you have what is effectively a one-way hand in a mandatory split pot game. Not a good way to start.
 

snooptodd

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So I jammed, and wasn't aware that you couldn't change how your hand was split after the betting was complete. I understand and agree with the rule now that I think about it, but I may have put the aces in the hold'em hand first, had I known that was the case.

I think a case could be made for putting the DS aces in Omaha, but there was no reason to jam the way I did. Basically, I did everything I could possible do to misplay this hand. Lesson learned!
 

NiceShot

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AA for HE and rest for Omaha. Omaha gets a lot of straights and flushes. Aces are much stronger in HE
 

ssanel54

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Never played this game but putting the aces in the hold'em hand seems super obvious. Then get it in pre.

I disagree with this. You don't have the fold equity as you do in single hand HE. AA gets cracked all the time by throw away cards on the hold em side. You are getting it all in vs. multiple players for only half the pot= recipe for disaster.
 

Mr Tree

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I disagree with this. You don't have the fold equity as you do in single hand HE. AA gets cracked all the time by throw away cards on the hold em side. You are getting it all in vs. multiple players for only half the pot= recipe for disaster.

I'm anxious to play this game but terrified to play this game lol.

What constitutes a good starting hand? Multiple draws for flushes and straights in not hands?
 
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I don't think fold equity is relevant, we want callers. AA is most likely hand by far to take 1/2 the pot & every caller increases our EV. 9433dd has a puncher's chance of winning multiway. HU we're always miles ahead overall.
 

Ben

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I'm anxious to play this game but terrified to play this game lol.

What constitutes a good starting hand? Multiple draws for flushes and straights in not hands?

LOL. You will learn, young Padawan. It's coming to you... [emoji41]

Strategy-wise, just remember ASWD (any six will do.)
 

Mr Tree

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I don't think fold equity is relevant, we want callers. AA is most likely hand by far to take 1/2 the pot & every caller increases our EV. 9433dd has a puncher's chance of winning multiway. HU we're always miles ahead overall.

Th problem is your likely to be out in no mans land with the AA against multiple callers where any weird two pair or someone making three of a kind crushes you. Unless you hit the A or get a favorable Omaha flop your likely to be playing for half he pot with no idea where you stand for which hand. I get why Ben says to just dump it.
 

Mr Tree

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LOL. You will learn, young Padawan. It's coming to you... [emoji41]

Strategy-wise, just remember ASWD (any six will do.)

My prediction is I spend about the first hour playing it like a frightened nit, because it looks like trying to sprint across the freeway and not get hit. Then I think I'm brilliant and have it figured out and lose about a grand. Then I pull something out of my ass that I had no right for end up $300 and tell everyone what a genius I am.
 

manamongkids

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My prediction is I spend about the first hour playing it like a frightened nit, because it looks like trying to sprint across the freeway and not get hit. Then I think I'm brilliant and have it figured out and lose about a grand. Then I pull something out of my ass that I had no right for end up $300 and tell everyone what a genius I am.
you forgot to add, it will then be added to your home game rotation. Then you will have to introduce them to the ASWD strategy
 

ssanel54

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Th problem is your likely to be out in no mans land with the AA against multiple callers where any weird two pair or someone making three of a kind crushes you. Unless you hit the A or get a favorable Omaha flop your likely to be playing for half he pot with no idea where you stand for which hand. I get why Ben says to just dump it.

See...you're already an expert!
 

courage

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lol SOHE strategy from those who've not played it. Deep stacks make it sick, too. Try leading river for 160bb on a wet board with a set of deuces and having a big stack pot it all in, and then hero call to win half. Welcome to the game.
 

Ben

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Th problem is your likely to be out in no mans land with the AA against multiple callers where any weird two pair or someone making three of a kind crushes you. Unless you hit the A or get a favorable Omaha flop your likely to be playing for half he pot with no idea where you stand for which hand. I get why Ben says to just dump it.

Hey now, don't get me wrong. If the AA is in the holdem hand we are piling it in and never ever even thinking about folding. The only way folding is ever a consideration is, having already gone with the AA on the omaha side, we then face a raise that commits us for stacks. AA on the holdem side is incredibly powerful - sure we MIGHT get drawn out on, but we are guaranteed to be a big favorite and basically freerolling to hit our omaha hand. And 9433 with a suit is NOT a completely worthless Omaha hand.
 

Mr Tree

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Hey now, don't get me wrong. If the AA is in the holdem hand we are piling it in and never ever even thinking about folding. The only way folding is ever a consideration is, having already gone with the AA on the omaha side, we then face a raise that commits us for stacks. AA on the holdem side is incredibly powerful - sure we MIGHT get drawn out on, but we are guaranteed to be a big favorite and basically freerolling to hit our omaha hand. And 9433 with a suit is NOT a completely worthless Omaha hand.

Are you likely to isolate on a jam? This is pot limit isn't it so aren't you likely to be involved in a multiway pot no matter what?
 

courage

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Are you likely to isolate on a jam? This is pot limit isn't it so aren't you likely to be involved in a multiway pot no matter what?
Pot limit. You're never isolating pf. The hand described is a classic example.
 

Ben

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Are you likely to isolate on a jam? This is pot limit isn't it so aren't you likely to be involved in a multiway pot no matter what?

Yes, most pots end up multi-way and deep-stacked. Having AA in holdem is still really, really good though, especially when you have position and especially in a game where people giving a lot of action isn't necessarily an indication of having a holdem side better than AA.
 

bergs

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I'm anxious to play this game but terrified to play this game lol.

What constitutes a good starting hand? Multiple draws for flushes and straights in not hands?

QQ on hold em side last night and ATddA3hh was the best hand I've had in a long time.
 

DrStrange

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I'd be happy to take my chances with AA / 9433 ***IF*** the bulk of the money goes in preflop. I don't really care if we are multiway or not. The equity advantage of AA in holdem is big enough to overcome the equity disadvantage of 9s433s in Omaha. As noted, expect variance. I would not be enthusiastic about this hand if we are going to have to play post flop.

DrStrange
 

bergs

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AA on the holdem side, other cards in the Omaha side. Get it in pre. Expect variance.

You won't get it in pre usually (this hand was super unusual).

The thing that isn't mentioned here is that it's VERY easy to lose your stack on the turn or river in a multiway pot with AA on the HE side. There is a school of thought that says play the best PLO hand possible, hope to get lucky on the HE side, and build hands that you can get away from easily via smashing or missing.
 
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