Tom Brady isn't the GOAT (1 Viewer)

[legend672]

Belicheck has a god like understanding of the game, and moreover of football talent and how to utilize it. Absolutely unparalleled in the history of football. I would give the lion's share of the Patriots dynasty credit to him over Brady. And I still hate both of them

Bellicek went for 2, down 9 , in one of the stupidest moves ever. He’s losing it. No more Brady, he will not win the super bowl again . Saw the pats play at Harvard stadium and know as much about them as anyone. It was Brady

 

[RainmanTrail]

You may still say meh, but when you talk about the Pats illegally taping opponents, the illegal aspect was that the camera was placed outside of the designated taping area. So you should expect a similar meh response in return.

This sounds like an interpretation that only the most die-hard of Patriots fans is capable of.

What actually happened... The Patriots took advantage of media day filming access to sneak in a hidden camera. They set up said camera to capture footage of the opposing team's practice for when cameras were not allowed. In other words, they captured footage for when they were preparing and game planning against New England. Cameras are only allowed during certain times because of media coverage, and the teams obviously don't run any game theory or strategic plays during that time. The Patriots literally had their opponents game plans against them. The degree to which this is cheating is difficult to exaggerate. There aren't many organizational level cheating scandals in all of sports worse than this. Unless you want to consider the Patriots in-game audio stealing of the other sidelines. I suppose that might be worse. It's certainly worse than the Astros sign stealing operation. Which the Red Sox did as well.

Deflate-gate is the least of their cheating offenses over the years.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Bellicek went for 2, down 9 , in one of the stupidest moves ever. He’s losing it. No more Brady, he will not win the super bowl again . Saw the pats play at Harvard stadium and know as much about them as anyone. It was Brady

You say that as if going for 2, down 9 isn't the more accurate play. But it is. Especially in the 4th quarter.

 

[ssanel54]

This sounds like an interpretation that only the most die-hard of Patriots fans is capable of.

What actually happened... The Patriots took advantage of media day filming access to sneak in a hidden camera. They set up said camera to capture footage of the opposing team's practice for when cameras were not allowed. In other words, they captured footage for when they were preparing and game planning against New England. Cameras are only allowed during certain times because of media coverage, and the teams obviously don't run any game theory or strategic plays during that time. The Patriots literally had their opponents game plans against them. The degree to which this is cheating is difficult to exaggerate. There aren't many organizational level cheating scandals in all of sports worse than this. Unless you want to consider the Patriots in-game audio stealing of the other sidelines. I suppose that might be worse. It's certainly worse than the Astros sign stealing operation. Which the Red Sox did as well.

Deflate-gate is the least of their cheating offenses over the years.

You know, it is possible to be informed while also being a fan. Where are you coming up with your "facts"?

What people refer to as Spygate stemmed from a Pats-Jets game in 2007 where the Patriots were caught Illegally filming the Jets sideline. Though it is not illegal to film coaches and steal hand signals, it must be done from within a designated area, and the Patriots were outside of that area. This is against the rules, and they were penalized for doing so.

What you seem to be referencing is the subsequent report from the Boston Herald (another one of your biased Boston media outlets), that the Patriots had filmed the St Louis Rams walkthrough at the Superbowl in 2002. this was investigated by the NFL and they found no evidence. The Herald also admitted that they had not seen any evidence prior to publication and they ultimately retracted their article and issued an apology. https://www.bostonherald.com/2008/05/14/apology/. A quick search should also surface plenty of apologies from ESPN for continuing to report on the initial Herald article as fact.

Now I don't really care if you want to draw your own conclusions and convince yourself that just because they never found a tape it doesnt mean that the patriots didnt do it. Thats what Marshall Faulk has been singing for years. My point was that you can say the same thing about other players that you are labeling as a GOAT. Multiple teams accused the Colts of pumping in Fake noise, and an offensive Lineman admitted to using illegal communication devices, does this affect Mannings Legacy or greatness? Your all time GOAT WR admitted in an interview to cheating. and your number 2 Moss had some of his best seasons with the Cheatriots - do those offenses affect his legacy as well or only Brady?

Im not going to say that all those illegal practices that the Seahawks were punished for contributed to Wilsons success as a QB, but if he had won 5-6 Superbowls during that span then maybe they would have received more attention.

Im also glad you feel deflategate was a minor offense, because I didnt want to have to drop these photos from Seattle.

 

[72o]

You know, it is possible to be informed while also being a fan. Where are you coming up with your "facts"?

What people refer to as Spygate stemmed from a Pats-Jets game in 2007 where the Patriots were caught Illegally filming the Jets sideline. Though it is not illegal to film coaches and steal hand signals, it must be done from within a designated area, and the Patriots were outside of that area. This is against the rules, and they were penalized for doing so.

What you seem to be referencing is the subsequent report from the Boston Herald (another one of your biased Boston media outlets), that the Patriots had filmed the St Louis Rams walkthrough at the Superbowl in 2002. this was investigated by the NFL and they found no evidence. The Herald also admitted that they had not seen any evidence prior to publication and they ultimately retracted their article and issued an apology. https://www.bostonherald.com/2008/05/14/apology/. A quick search should also surface plenty of apologies from ESPN for continuing to report on the initial Herald article as fact.

Now I don't really care if you want to draw your own conclusions and convince yourself that just because they never found a tape it doesnt mean that the patriots didnt do it. Thats what Marshall Faulk has been singing for years. My point was that you can say the same thing about other players that you are labeling as a GOAT. Multiple teams accused the Colts of pumping in Fake noise, and an offensive Lineman admitted to using illegal communication devices, does this affect Mannings Legacy or greatness? Your all time GOAT WR admitted in an interview to cheating. and your number 2 Moss had some of his best seasons with the Cheatriots - do those offenses affect his legacy as well or only Brady?

Im not going to say that all those illegal practices that the Seahawks were punished for contributed to Wilsons success as a QB, but if he had won 5-6 Superbowls during that span then maybe they would have received more attention.

Im also glad you feel deflategate was a minor offense, because I didnt want to have to drop these photos from Seattle.

View attachment 557546

I was just going to say that all teams are trying to get that certain edge and plenty of people on other teams have stated publicly that they do the same things that the Patriots got punished for. The Pats, during their reign, garnered the most attention obviously so it was a big deal to make them the example.

 

[legend672]

You know, it is possible to be informed while also being a fan. Where are you coming up with your "facts"?

What people refer to as Spygate stemmed from a Pats-Jets game in 2007 where the Patriots were caught Illegally filming the Jets sideline. Though it is not illegal to film coaches and steal hand signals, it must be done from within a designated area, and the Patriots were outside of that area. This is against the rules, and they were penalized for doing so.

What you seem to be referencing is the subsequent report from the Boston Herald (another one of your biased Boston media outlets), that the Patriots had filmed the St Louis Rams walkthrough at the Superbowl in 2002. this was investigated by the NFL and they found no evidence. The Herald also admitted that they had not seen any evidence prior to publication and they ultimately retracted their article and issued an apology. https://www.bostonherald.com/2008/05/14/apology/. A quick search should also surface plenty of apologies from ESPN for continuing to report on the initial Herald article as fact.

Now I don't really care if you want to draw your own conclusions and convince yourself that just because they never found a tape it doesnt mean that the patriots didnt do it. Thats what Marshall Faulk has been singing for years. My point was that you can say the same thing about other players that you are labeling as a GOAT. Multiple teams accused the Colts of pumping in Fake noise, and an offensive Lineman admitted to using illegal communication devices, does this affect Mannings Legacy or greatness? Your all time GOAT WR admitted in an interview to cheating. and your number 2 Moss had some of his best seasons with the Cheatriots - do those offenses affect his legacy as well or only Brady?

Im not going to say that all those illegal practices that the Seahawks were punished for contributed to Wilsons success as a QB, but if he had won 5-6 Superbowls during that span then maybe they would have received more attention.

Im also glad you feel deflategate was a minor offense, because I didnt want to have to drop these photos from Seattle.

View attachment 557546

The referee handles the ball on every play, they could feel a difference like that. Trick photography.
on a side note , you keep it a one score game by going for 1 . Pretty simple.

 

[ssanel54]

The referee handles the ball on every play, they could feel a difference like that. Trick photography.
on a side note , you keep it a one score game by going for 1 . Pretty simple.

Actually, kicking balls are separate than the game balls, but I believe they still have regulated psi guidelines. But, yeah I have no clue about the accuracy of those photos and posted them more as a joke

 

[RainmanTrail]

on a side note , you keep it a one score game by going for 1 . Pretty simple.

Here's 538's breakdown on when to go for 2. Win % slightly increases from 2.9% to 3.3% with 10 minutes to go in the 4th quarter after a TD brings you within 9 points. Pretty minor difference, but it is the more accurate play. Bellichick usually makes the more accurate play. It's an underrated part of what makes him so successful IMO.

 

[legend672]

Down 2 scores if you miss, down one score if you kick and make it. How’s that math work for you ?

 

[RainmanTrail]

Down 2 scores if you miss, down one score if you kick and make it. How’s that math work for you ?

When a mathematician and arguably the greatest coach of all time disagree with you, it's probably time to fold.