Thoughts on poker tournament chip structure using $5,000,000 chips (1 Viewer)

[LBLito]

I recently added some $5,000,000 poker chips (WSOP Final Table replicas) to my collection. One of the tournaments I used to run was a November 9 Final Table poker tournament every year and it had the high denomination chips: $25k, $100k, $500k, $1 million. With the addition of the $5,000,000 chips I've been tinkering with a blind/ante structure. This is a rough cut of the structure I was thinking of:

These are the total chips I have:

TOURNAMENT STRUCTURE AND QUESTIONS:
- The tournament would last between 4 - 5 hours and there will be no re-buys, although I'm open to inputs such as 1 rebuy in the first 30 minutes or hour. I usually have a cash game table set up on the side for those who bust out early though.
- What should the starting chip stack be?
- Has anybody had luck using the Big Blind Ante structure? Any issues/controversies that have popped up using that new format where the Big Blind posts all the Antes?
- Anything else missing here?

Any inputs would be welcome.

The 2nd picture shown below is a $25,000,000 stack.
By the way the $25k and $100k chips are the standard 39mm size, and the $500k, $1,000,000, and $5,000,000 chips are ones I had custom made and are the larger 43mm size.

 

[LBLito]

One last question. I was reading threads on poker clock software and it seems like Tournament Director was the odds on software of choice among the PCF users. Would anybody know if that software can support Blind/Ante structures in the $multi-million chip structure that I have noted?

 

[UW85]

DD Poker site

DD Poker is no longer updated -- shut down in 2020 it looks like, but I'm pretty sure it will allow you to run up those blind levels. I absolutely LOVE uber high structures like this and have used DD (still do) on an older iMac desktop. Shows an installer for windows too.

 

[LBLito]

I have DD Poker installed my PCs. It will allow the blind structures, but not the Antes since it won't allow Antes past $1,000,000. That DD Poker clock such a good software to use. Easy to maneuver and save different tournament structures. You can still download it even though the site is shut down. I was able to reload it about 2 weeks ago. The simulated hand % calculator where it runs the percentages of your hand vs another pre-flop, flop, turn, and river is another great feature.

 

[grantc54]

One last question. I was reading threads on poker clock software and it seems like Tournament Director was the odds on software of choice among the PCF users. Would anybody know if that software can support Blind/Ante structures in the $multi-million chip structure that I have noted?

Tournament Director will support antes and you can specify any blind level sizes (mine goes up to a T100M chip).

I have moved over to Blind Valet as the ability to administer from my phone makes life much easier.

Just a note, when working with tournaments replace the $ with a T. The denoms aren't in US dollars, they are in tournament units.

 

[RagingAZN]

In regards to the finish time, a tried and tested rule for most tournaments is that they will generally end when the big blind is 5% of the total chips in play. This of course is very tournament dependent but is a good starting point.

Your homework is now to work out starting stacks and blind levels based on this information!

 

[LBLito]

Thanks. That's the first time I ever heard of that BB 5% ratio of the total chips in play, but I will try to perform some calculations based on that. We would usually adjust on the fly when we got to around the final 4 players and play it by feel (either keep it at the same level, or bump it to the next level when another player is eliminated). I would sometimes run 3 tables, but that was just a hell of a lot of work trying to run the tournament, get the late people situated with seating and chips, deal with the clock, and eliminations while playing the tournament at the same time. Baseline would be 2 tables now for me.

 

[kmccormick100]

Just lookup one of @BGinGA 's standard T25 based structures for 25k starting stacks (seems a little big, but ok). structure should be identical less three zeroes...

 

[Poker Zombie]

Edit: as I was just typing the same thing that @kmccormick100 said.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Thanks. That's the first time I ever heard of that BB 5% ratio of the total chips in play, but I will try to perform some calculations based on that. We would usually adjust on the fly when we got to around the final 4 players and play it by feel (either keep it at the same level, or bump it to the next level when another player is eliminated). I would sometimes run 3 tables, but that was just a hell of a lot of work trying to run the tournament, get the late people situated with seating and chips, deal with the clock, and eliminations while playing the tournament at the same time. Baseline would be 2 tables now for me.

The 5% rule is solid for home games. You should never adjust "on the fly", as that can (and should) determine how players play. It can also show favoritism as speeding up the tournament has a dramatic effect on short stacks.

 

[buzzmonkey]

With the 5% rule, you may possibly go a level past, but I find in most cases you will end up finishing before that, especially if you have antes.

 

[BGinGA]

too.many.zeros.

 

[LBLito]

The one time we did "adjust on the fly" it was because the short stack wanted to go home towards the end of the tournament (3 of us remained) and even suggested splitting the pot 3 ways. The competitive side of me said I wanted to win the whole damn thing so screw splitting it 3 ways. It was odd that we played about 5 hours (I was in the last 3) but just all of the sudden wanted to go home. He kamikazi raised all in like 3 hands in a row just trying to get eliminated. The short stack finally raised all in with a pair of 5's and I had a pair of Kings (had him covered about 3 to 1). Of course he hit his set. I eliminated him later. Heads up I hit top pair with a pair of Jacks on the flop. My opponent went all in with air (complete bluff) with a 7-8 offsuit. He had no pair, no draw, and needed runner runner otherwise I won the tournament. Of course he hit his runner runner and I was basically out since I was less than 1 BB on the last hand. Worst feeling ever. The motto "I hate losing more than I love winning" is something I wear on my sleeve. The one thing that tourney did was make me understand that you can play your hand as best as you can and have your opponent at 2% after the flop, but things still won't go your way. Put it this way, that was 6 years ago and it still stings.

Otherwise the only adjusting we would do was keep the blinds at a certain level once we got to the last 3 or so. At that point it was more of a question to the last remaining players if they wanted to keep the blinds at that level. Most of the times they would but if someone disagreed we would keep the clock running.

 

[PlaidDragon]

One important factor in determining play length of a tourney is the total number of players. Apologies if I missed it, but did you say how many players would be participating?

25M in chips is 125BB at 100k/200k. Assuming no rebuys and given the blind structure you provided:

With 8 players I'd estimate your tourney ending around L15.
With 16 players I'd estimate around L20.

Antes may hasten this slightly by a level or two in each case.

If you go to a 3rd table (or more) you'll likely need to add some levels to your structure.

Also, your blind progression hits some major troughs with the lowest delta occurring from L10-11 at 7%. This is not a fatal problem, but it sort of creates a situation where some blind changes will seem insignificant.

From my own spreadsheet tool (ignoring ante atm):

If this is what you prefer and it works for you, great! However, I prefer a little more evenness regarding the average delta and myself would run something like this given the denominations you are wanting to use:

These blinds obviously increase more aggressively and will make for a shorter tourney; however, you still have the option to affect your tourney length by tuning level duration up or down.

Partially related: I used a simple ante amount modelled after what you initially posted. You might want to consider switching to a big blind ante to simplify things a bit. I find that managing individual antes from everyone at a full table can be annoying.