Tanking...for what?

PhilLaFond

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I'm very well aware that I'm an average recreational player, but I'm always interested in learning, trying to improve, and understand how better players think. With that, I'd like to describe a hand from a recent session at Mohegan Sun at Pocono Downs and get some viewpoints. Game is 1/2, full table. Been at the table about 2 hrs, it's relatively conservative. No obvious tells and have seen no bluffs at all. Avg open raise is $8-10.

Player A in mid position with a stack of about $500 opens to $14. Player B to his immediate left min raises to $28. Player A has him covered, but not by much. Button (player C - $400 effective) calls, blinds fold, Player A calls quickly. I was in the small blind - intrigued by what was going on as this was unusual action for this table. A and B are in their early 60s, not playing tons of hands and have only showed strength at showdown. B maybe is a little more speculative, but not much. Both seem competent, B loves to talk about how much he plays in AC and Vegas.

Flops comes 7, 3, K all diamonds. Player A bets out $80. Player B thinks for a minute and calls. Player C flashes me AJ off (no diamond) and folds, grumbling. Turn is a 6c. Player A goes all in. Player B tanks forever. Apologizes to the table and continues to talk. I know you have a set of Kings, blah blah blah. Hell I knew that, and I'm not that good. I also know B doesn't have aces, or I'm sure he raises the flop bet. Tank tank tank - "I have a pair and a flush draw" he says. Finally he folds face up, a pair of 9s, one of which was a diamond.

So - thoughts on the action? Min raise pre flop the right move? Call pre flop by C with AJ off make sense? Calling the flop bet correct? Was there really that much to think about after the all in bet? Other thoughts you have??
 
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jbutler

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i'm okay with the min-raise pre by player B, but the flop is a fold as is the turn. player A turns up with AA, KK or AK (and usually with a diamond in the AA and AK hands) here 90+% of the time. player B was tanking for the same reason he was talking - he's there for socializing as much as playing poker and just wants to hollywood a bit.

AJo is a terrible call for $28 and a bad call even for $14 when the raise is a rock in MP.
 

Shaggy

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1. I don't hate the PF re-raise by player B. Prefer to see higher... though the conservative game, is A doing that with AK, AQ, AJ, 88, 77?
2. cold call by AJ is just bad
3. Donkbet by player A on the flop is okay. Dead to made flush, but good as blocker bet to Ace of diamonds. donkbet likely better than check raise.
4. Player B flop call is bad
5. Player C flop fold good.
6. Player B tank bad, fold good. Does Player B know that a flush loses to full house?

Looks like Player B hates money. Continue to play with him.
 

Ben

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Call pre, hate the minraise. Fold flop. Snap fold turn. Player B is awful. Player C is awful. If Player A really had KK, then he's awful too. You hit the trifecta. [emoji39]
 

DrStrange

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Players A open raises to $14, bigger than the table norm and bigger than his normal raise. Player B min raises with pocket nines, (presumably to isolate?) This is terrible play - A's range is bigger pairs or two over-cards. Does B plan to fold if A re-raises? What does B plan to do with a low SPR and a flop with a couple of over-cards? It seems to me that B turns his pocket pair into a bluff more than anything else with his min raise.

C cold calling with AJo is a mistake with a classic trouble hand in a highly constested pot.

A decides to flat rather than 4-bet. Curious. Let's just say I don't think KK is in his primary range.

We get a monochrome flop, three way action and $84 in the pot (SPR < 6) and A leads out a pot sized bet rather than go for a check raise. This is an invitation to play for stacks or perhaps a bluff. B flats with 99 and a weak flush draw. C folds.

The board pairs and A jams all in. $244 in pot, jam is $392 or 1.6 pot. If A holds the top full house, this is a terrible play, If A is semi-bluffing or perhaps playing top pair, then the play makes a bit more sense. B folds properly.

I think Hero's read of the table and the villains might be bit too conservative unless this hand is a massive outlier.

A's play is hard to evaluate without seeing his hand. It is successful in winning a nice pot - - - - <shrug> nice hand?
B's play is filled with mistakes until he folds. Preflop is a limp or fold given Hero's read. Flop is a fold
C's play is a typical tourist mistake. He was lucky not to flop top pair and get stacked.

DrStrange
 

Chippy McChiperson

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I doubt player A had kings. The board suddenly became unscary with the 3 pairing the turn. Why bet the guy off? More likely he had AK or AA no diamond.
 

PhilLaFond

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Sorry guys - reading all the posts I just realized a typo. Turn was a 6c. My amateur thoughts - suspicious of the re- raise, thought maybe high pair trying to induce more action from A. Thought C might be set mining. Initially thought A might have 10s or JJ based on his opening bet size. When he didn't re-pop I figured he didn't have AA - would have expected an isolation move here.

OP corrected.
 
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DrStrange

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For what it is worth . . . I think player A is semibluffing with the ace high flush draw. I look at Hero's description of the table and think this is a place where stiff bluffs work almost all the time.

DrStrange
 

PhilLaFond

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You're probably right. With his c-bet my immediate read was a set of kings, worried about AA with the diamond or any strong flush draw. Wonder if a shove from B over the $80 flop bet might have worked...FWIW, casino only allows it to be run once.
 

DrStrange

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B doesn't know how the turn is going to play out - so he can't make the assumptions we might make after watching the whole hand. A's range is fairly bounded by the preflop action, but a hand like AK or AQs are certainly part of the range.

B has a rio problem holding pocket nines and very little information about who is ahead. B wins $168 if the bluff works and loses $324 when it fails, so the bluff has to work a third of the time to break even. A might decide he has good enough odds to draw with a naked ace, and even then A has 14 outs twice to make a hand better than nines - a little better than even money vs the nines..

I could see A folding QQ/JJ/TT or a pure bluff. Maybe he folds AK/AA without a flush draw. Maybe A folds a naked ace high draw. The bluff wouldn't be crazy but I think a flop bluff by B is at least adventuresome.

DrStrange
 
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