Must a Winning Hand Show ALL Cards? (4 Viewers)

[Santa123]

this is an old thread but honestly, a muck is a muck.

I think it all comes down to house rules but the most important for me is that the showdown is done quick. The pot should be awarded to the winning hand quickly and the next hand can begin.

if opponent mucks, then i do not have to show my hand at showdown since my opponent mucked and there are no more eligible cards/hands and i win by default.

I am one of your wannabes. No seriuously if you win the pot at showdown you have to show all your holecards. Not one. All your holecards. And it doesnt matter if your oppenent already mucked. Just show your damn hand

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I think it all comes down to house rules but the most important for me is that the showdown is done quick. The pot should be awarded to the winning hand quickly and the next hand can begin.


I am one of your wannabes. No seriuously if you win the pot at showdown you have to show all your holecards. Not one. All your holecards. And it doesnt matter if your oppenent already mucked. Just show your damn hand

Definitely with you on the quick. Miserable having people glance at eachother after the last bet is called, especially at a game with lots of older gentlemen who love to slow roll each other. Always insta-show at showdown.

I can't agree with the second point though, if my opponent mucks his bluff I muck my winner after I take the pot to make sure to tilt the info-mooks who folded to my min-raise.

 

[gamblingbowser]

yeah agreed, house rules are house rules. and speed of play is always a consideration

but i do not want to show my hand if i dont have to. sometimes im bluff catching with broadway high and when my opponent says "youre good" i want to make damn sure I'm good by forcing him to show or muck before i show or muck. its part of the game IMO. the only exception where ill show a "youre good" hand is top pair or better. if they nitroll me and have top pair beat, those are fighting words at that point

 

[DuckFat]

Rio Bravo, player A preflop bets $5.50; player B raises to $11; player C calls.

Player B takes main pot, no one cares about his Rio Bravo card.

What's Rio Bravo? Results I get are a really old movie and the RB card being an item in Red Dead Redemption 2.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I would also like to know what Rio Bravo is.

As to the original question, you must show all your hole cards to claim any portion of the pot at showdown, if for no other reason that ensuring that the player has a legitimate hand and not, say, or and a guarantee card. I know sometimes people like to show just the one card that matters, which isn't anything unusual, but to push back when told you have to show all your cards is weird. Why is that such a problem for player A here? Be an adult. Respect the rules.

As to having to show because it's an all-in pot, that's a tournament thing. Tournament players seem to enjoy being able to sweat the result as the board comes out like in televised poker; they may be required to show at showdown in non-all-in pots as a matter of game protection as well. But that just isn't the standard in cash games. No need to show your cards in a cash game unless you're making a claim on the pot.

@Mojo1312, I disagree with the premise that anyone is owed any information from other players due to the betting. Calling bets in poker is paying for your stake in the pot, not buying information. Whether to contest at showdown is each player's decision; showing down is itself an optional action, just like it would be in any other hand that gets to the end. If a player misreads his hand and mucks, that's on him. The fact of the pot being all-in doesn't/shouldn't change the fact that this action is optional.

 

[UniLover]

What's Rio Bravo? Results I get are a really old movie and the RB card being an item in Red Dead Redemption 2.

I would also like to know what Rio Bravo is.

Texas Hold'em + another individual card after river. So three hole cards and standard five community cards.

 

[Mojo1312]

@Mojo1312, I disagree with the premise that anyone is owed any information from other players due to the betting. Calling bets in poker is paying for your stake in the pot, not buying information. Whether to contest at showdown is each player's decision; showing down is itself an optional action, just like it would be in any other hand that gets to the end. If a player misreads his hand and mucks, that's on him. The fact of the pot being all-in doesn't/shouldn't change the fact that this action is optional.

The dealer's at Montreal Playground will force a player who moves all-in to show their five hole cards in Big-O before claiming a contested pot. The same holds true when playing Omaha-8 in Bangor, Omaha-hi at Chaser's Casino in New Hampshire and Red Shores Casino in Prince Edward Island. During a game there are instances where a player who goes all-in can get away with only showing his two winning hole cards, but that seizes to exist when the player who calls asks the aggressor to show his hole cards first.

The house rule in the weekly $1/$2 NLHE game I play in is the player who calls an all-in on the river has the right to ask his opponent to show his hand before revealing their hand. In all-ins involving multiple players with no remaining action, hands are generally laid face up on the table. There are times when that is not the case, such as when players call with a drawing hand, but anytime a pot is contested, the player who called can ask the aggressor what he has for a hand. No one makes a fuss on the rare occasion when the aggressor mucks their hand after declaring "good call, I missed" or simply "good call."

The last example above as well as the example you gave of a player misreading their hand is not what happened in the situation the O.P. described.

 

[Jimulacrum]

The dealer's at Montreal Playground will force a player who moves all-in to show their five hole cards in Big-O before claiming a contested pot. The same holds true when playing Omaha-8 in Bangor, Omaha-hi at Chaser's Casino in New Hampshire and Red Shores Casino in Prince Edward Island. During a game there are instances where a player who goes all-in can get away with only showing his two winning hole cards, but that seizes to exist when the player who calls asks the aggressor to show his hole cards first.

My position on claiming the pot is you should always have to show all your cards at showdown to claim the pot. I know this isn't really enforceable if, say, you show aces full and your opponent pitches his cards into the muck. Like clearly you can't give it to the other player. But I prefer it as a last-ditch policy to catch fouled hands and other improper stuff, like someone having too many hole cards.

The house rule in the weekly $1/$2 NLHE game I play in is the player who calls an all-in on the river has the right to ask his opponent to show his hand before revealing their hand. In all-ins involving multiple players with no remaining action, hands are generally laid face up on the table. There are times when that is not the case, such as when players call with a drawing hand, but anytime a pot is contested, the player who called can ask the aggressor what he has for a hand. No one makes a fuss on the rare occasion when the aggressor mucks their hand after declaring "good call, I missed" or simply "good call."

I am aware of the "I want to see that hand" rule but don't especially like it. My feeling is that if someone wants to concede on the end, let him. More often than not, people who do this a lot are huge donators who just want to muck out of embarrassment, and I'd rather allow them that bit of grace even if it costs information. If the rule is always being used in a gentlemanly and understanding way as you describe, I guess that's not so bad.

The last example above as well as the example you gave of a player misreading their hand is not what happened in the situation the O.P. described.

Yeah, I know. Reads a little silly looking back at it. Just kinda running cases in my head as to why someone would muck.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Texas Hold'em + another individual card after river. So three hole cards and standard five community cards.
View attachment 1508898

I might try this as a double-board game sometime. I bet my crew would have fun with it.

 

[Baxit]

To me, the player with the winning hand must show it entirely at showdown, (1) to check it as legit and (2) because someone paid to see these cards.
Even further, if A wins at showdown against B and B concedes by mucking, A has the right to ask B (or the dealer) to reveal B's cards, since he paid to see them. And since A has the right to see B's cards, all other players can also ask to see them. For sure B will be pissed but I think it's in the right of other players to see his cards There's also the question of who shows first at showdown, either last raiser or last caller. Usually the aggressor shows first, couldn't see that in RROP tho.

 

[Machine]

There's also the question of who shows first at showdown, either last raiser or last caller.

False.

Last Action on that street, or if there is no action, it would be left of the button.

One example that is often overlooked is, all in on the turn from the 9 seat, and a caller in the 3 seat, would have the 3 seat show first.

 

[MrCatPants]

False.

Last Action on that street, or if there is no action, it would be left of the button.

One example that is often overlooked is, all in on the turn from the 9 seat, and a caller in the 3 seat, would have the 3 seat show first.

I always understood it as last aggressor but have never referenced it. Is this tourney or RRP or both?

 

[Machine]

I always understood it as last aggressor but have never referenced it. Is this tourney or RRP or both?

you can explicitly find it in the TDA, but it also applies to cash in casinos

 

[Baxit]

Quick recap from official sources (RROP, TDA)

show full winning hand: there's no doubt the whole hand must be shown. RROP: "A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot." TDA: "Proper tabling is both 1) turning all cards face up on the table and 2) allowing the dealer and players to read the hand clearly. “All cards” means both hole cards in hold’em, all 4 hole cards in Omaha, all 7 cards in 7-stud, etc."

who shows first: By RROP and TDA it's last aggressor in the final street, or else first actor in a normal round (i.e. first seat left of the button in flop games, high hand showing in stud, low hand in razz, etc.))

asking to see a hand: now RROP and TDA differ
- RROP - The Showdown :
5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked
(with further caveats not to abuse this rule). // This was enforced in the 2005-2015 decade, but was contested afterward.

- TDA is quite precise on this topic. Per oct-2024 edition:
18: Asking to See a Hand
A: Players not still in possession of cards at showdown, or who have mucked their cards face down without tabling, lose any rights or privileges to ask to see any hand.
B: If there was a river bet, any caller has an inalienable right to have the last aggressor’s hand tabled on request (“the hand they paid to see”) provided the caller tabled or retains his or her cards. TDs discretion governs all other requests such as to see the hand of another caller, or if there was no river bet.