Cash Game Sketchy Vegas dealer move? (1 Viewer)

[Trihonda]

My buddy and I were at PH in Vegas this weekend, and I witnessed a weird situation, thought I'd get some feedback:

Playing 1/2 NL, at the table with a bunch of rec players and a few grinders. My buddy Danny is across the table from me, and he's sitting next to a very LAG rec player, who is being loud and a teenie annoying (somewhat taunting Danny, though Danny can take the needling and doesn't seem affected). The entire table seems spirited.

The dealer is sliding cards, and accidentally turns up an ACE for Danny's second card. Danny looks down at his first card, and grimaces (not overly so)... Then slowly (and reluctantly) mucks his hand after aggressive betting before him. Danny doesn't complain about the up card, as Danny is an experienced player, and dealer mistakes happen (oh well).

After the hand, (I think) on a K7A6Q board (winning hand is KQ), the LAG starts bitching that he folded pocket 7's due to the aggressive betting pre-flop, and that he would have won. Danny then explains (nicely) to the LAG that he should stop bitching, as he would have had pocket aces, but didn't complain when the dealer flipped one of the aces up. There is a brief (but friendly) back and forth, and then the dealer chimes in...

The dealer tells the LAG that Danny wouldn't have had pocket aces, as he peeked at Danny's cards (after he mucked). The conversation quickly moved to another subject. However, within an orbit, Danny is racking his chips...

I later asked Danny about the situation, and Danny confirmed that he did not have two aces, that he was just trying to level (needle) the LAG somewhat, and that he was furious the dealer looked at his mucked cards and THEN divulged information to another player about the contents of his mucked hand... Danny said he wasn't sure what local rules permitted, and didn't think it wasn't worth making an issue out of it).

For the record, I saw Danny muck his cards, but looked away right after, and can not confirm if the dealer looked. He admitted he looked, and Danny confirmed that the dealer was correct, so I have to assume it happened.

Whether or not you agree with Danny's needling/leveling, did the dealer cross the line? What would you have done in this situation?

 

[upNdown]

That sounds pretty outrageous to me.

 

[Kain8]

I would call floor over immediately.

 

[bentax1978]

I think the dealer was completely out of line. If another player or two chime in that they folded aces and figure out Danny was lying, so be it. But for the dealer to look AND divulge that information to the table is a huge issue and I'd be furious.

 

[cgraham86]

First, I hate Planet Hollywood. Every time I've played there it's like playing with a bunch of highschool students that are playing with someone else's money. No matter what I do I'm going to get sucked out on then taunted afterwards. I would hope that I can use dumb play against dumb players there, but the ratios are just way too off. I've never played well there. That being said I also don't enjoy sloppy dealing - especially at some of these casinos where that is simply expected because of the quality of play or the quality of the room.

Second, hopefully the dealer counted this as the burn and gave your friend another card? Then that card was the burn before the flop? Just checking.

Third, the dealer shouldn't be looking at other players hands unless they invite them to do so. Most dealers I know who don't know the players wouldn't have looked anyway, but even if they do they shouldn't be talking about it. They should keep their mouth shut. If they're a little too familiar with some of the regulars then that's when it becomes a problem. I've actually talked to the floor about that before, and if I were your friend I would have given the floor some friendly word about that and named the dealer as I walked out the door. Calling the floor over probably won't solve anything because the dealer AND the table will be on the side of the dealer (most likely if my past experience with PH holds up). That's why mentioning it to the floor when you have nothing to gain is most likely going to have a bigger impact. But you won't get any immediate justice.

 

[Trihonda]

I would call floor over immediately.

That's was my immediate thought too, but I wasn't involved. Danny later said what would the point be of calling the floor..? So what, the floor tells the dealer to knock it off, then Danny's lying to LAG becomes center stage, and the game proceeds?

In hind sight, regardless of what the floor does, I'd have a hard time playing in the room after that. Danny explained it would be akin to sending a restaurant burger back to the kitchen for being over-done... Ya just don't feel 100% confident on what will be on your remade burger...

 

[bergs]

Only moves are to suck it up and forget about it or leave the room and never return. It wouldn't have tilted me necessarily. It's not like the dealer divulged state secrets that opened up the intrinsic secrets of your friend's playing style.....but it's out of line and if it's going to tilt you, best to just jet.

 

[Trihonda]

Only moves are to suck it up and forget about it or leave the room and never return. It wouldn't have tilted me necessarily. It's not like the dealer divulged state secrets that opened up the intrinsic secrets of your friend's playing style.....but it's out of line and if it's going to tilt you, best to just jet.

Ya, not end of the world, and I don't think Danny was especially tilted for that long, but I can understand his lack of confidence in the poker room (moving forward) if these sort of shenanigans take place. I mean, the dealer had no concerns about announcing to the table that he'd peeked, and divulged Danny's hand (and outed him for lying). I think Danny made the right play (GTFO), and to be honest, I wasn't far behind (hit up Aria for some crazy action).

Jacking my own thread... Saw stupid sick donkey play at Aria (from guys who looked the part of Vegas Grinders). Guys with $500 stacks, getting it all in on the turn, one guy flips over AK on an uncoordinated board (with no A or K), vs 44 (essentially bottom pair and in the lead)... River was an A ....yes, I was digging this table very much, except for having one of the worst run of card-deadness ever. I was only have to tip the dealer 3x in a 4 hour session. I didn't lose much, and I'd rather have zero cards, than always 2nd best cards, and lose a lot more.

OK, back to PH and how I will be loath to play their again. But they do have a PF Changs

 

[jbutler]

Only moves are to suck it up and forget about it or leave the room and never return. It wouldn't have tilted me necessarily. It's not like the dealer divulged state secrets that opened up the intrinsic secrets of your friend's playing style.....but it's out of line and if it's going to tilt you, best to just jet.

Pretty much feel this exact way. Wouldn't bother me a lot but would be annoyed and would probably let the dealer know in a nice enough way. Would almost certainly not get the floor involved.

 

[manamongkids]

Hit him where it really hurts, his pocket. You and your friend don't tip a single dollar if that dealer is at your table

 

[slisk250]

Hit him where it really hurts, his pocket. You and your friend don't tip a single dollar if that dealer is at your table

^this

Next time I won a hand while scooping I'd say "I'm looking in here for your tip. Can't seem to find it."

 

[manamongkids]

^this

Next time I won a hand while scooping I'd say "I'm looking in here for your tip. Can't seem to find it."

Ask to check his muck pile for it

 

[Trihonda]

Hit him where it really hurts, his pocket. You and your friend don't tip a single dollar if that dealer is at your table

Funny you should say that, Danny probably didn't tip him, as he left so fast (didnt think to ask him about this). The dealer didn't tilt me, and I got over it pretty quickly... However, IMHO that move was douchey, and I did choose to forgoe tipping him. And I won a decent number of pots in the 20-30 additional minutes of play. The dealer knew Danny and I were friends, but I doubt he got the correlation. Probably just thought I was being a jerk. Oh well...

 

[CHP TD]

what a dik.

funny you talk about tipping the dealers. Its illegal to tip dealers in Australia.

Id never even think about tipping a dealer in USA.

strange huh

 

[upNdown]

Seems to me like the dealer is a thin-skinned jackass.
He knew he screwed up by turning over a card.
And when the card's an ace he feels like a jerk.
The fact that he took a peek at your buddy's card to see if he screwed him is bad enough - you gotta just forget that shit and focus on dealing.
But then when your buddy said it cost him a hand, the dealer felt like your buddy was making him look bad for costing him the hand, so he has to announce to the table that it isn't true? What a thin-skinned idiot! Doesn't he realize he's not part of the game? That he's just doing his job and that none of this is real for him?
He's an idiot, and I would have mentioned it to the floor on the way out, but I'm sure you wouldn't be telling them anything they don't know.

 

[DJ Mack]

Dealers are like children. They should be seen and never heard.

 

[slisk250]

I wish I was at the table. As I understand it, after the hand is complete the dealer must "wash" the cards. Each card should touch the felt at least once before the dealer picks up the cards. If the dealer is doing this, then it should have been nearly impossible for him to see Danny's cards. If he picked them up after the hand was over (prewash), I find it hard to believe that another player did not catch it. If I saw a dealer do this...or the floor saw him do this...you would think he would be shut down immediately.

I don't spend too much time in casinos and I'm sure others have comment regarding my thoughts here, but never should a player get the feeling that the house is acting anything less than perfect in a card game. Mistakes happen, but it should have never entered the dealer's mind to look at those cards. I've seen craps dealers make mistakes and called out by players. After that happens, the house often removes them from the table for a chat or just a relocation to keep the peace. I'm curious if others here have been at a table when dealers were removed/relocated/replaced.

 

[tommythecat]

Dealers are like children. They should be seen and never heard.

If serious I disagree 1000%. A dealer that is really good with people can liven up a game and make it much more fun. I've been sitting at a table with a good social dealer, having a blast, and the next dealer taps in and gives off a quiet "I hate my job" vibe and kills all the fun. You could have a dealer that can get a grumpy OMC to crack a smile or one that sits there silent...give me a dealer with good social skills every single time.

 

[ChipEnvy]

Hit him where it really hurts, his pocket. You and your friend don't tip a single dollar if that dealer is at your table

This was my thought. It is letting him you know you are not appreciating his work. If he can't figure it out from that then he's dumber than this story portrays.

 

[DJ Mack]

If serious I disagree 1000%. A dealer that is really good with people can liven up a game and make it much more fun. I've been sitting at a table with a good social dealer, having a blast, and the next dealer taps in and gives off a quiet "I hate my job" vibe and kills all the fun. You could have a dealer that can get a grumpy OMC to crack a smile or one that sits there silent...give me a dealer with good social skills every single time.

Maybe it's just my experience since I don't play casino poker that much but I've had more negative experiences than positive. I tire of the crap and antics when I'm paying to rent my seat. The last few I've seen dealers be all but hostile to everyone but the regs. Sometimes it's subtle other times it's rather overt. Some off topic banter is OK but commenting on anything related to the game is out of bounds as is saying anything that a player might do to screw with an opponent.

I know it's not just me because I'll usually ignore it but last time a businessman visiting from Texas mustered his best cowboy scowl and with a deep drawl stared at the dealer and said "just deal the damn cards."

 

[Trihonda]

If serious I disagree 1000%. A dealer that is really good with people can liven up a game and make it much more fun. I've been sitting at a table with a good social dealer, having a blast, and the next dealer taps in and gives off a quiet "I hate my job" vibe and kills all the fun. You could have a dealer that can get a grumpy OMC to crack a smile or one that sits there silent...give me a dealer with good social skills every single time.

Yup, my favorite times in a casino are with friendly and social dealers (who can also deal fast at the same time). The Flamingo dealers I found to be (mostly) super social and friendly. It sets the tone for the entire table, makes it lively, and folks having a good time are good for tips, and the game IMHO. Though the best dealers certainly are good at reading the table, and if the game is more serious, they respond accordingly, and just deal without too much interaction.

 

[courage]

Danny did the right thing. Pointless to call the floor. If table was good, I'd just ignore it.

I'd prolly flip the dealer a buck at end of their down and mention it. I doubt "hitting them in the pocketbook" by not tipping has any effect since they wouldn't connect the dots. They are working for tips after all. Unless you're one of their big tipping regs, they're not gonna miss the dollar from the 3 pots you dragged.

 

[links_slayer]

Why weren't you vlogging this so we could get a live look-in!?!?!

 

[Poker Zombie]

While I like the idea of snubbing the dealer for tips, I am fairly certain that the dealers are required in Caesars Entertainment casinos to pool their tips.

Best course of action is either grin and bear it or get up and go. While I'd like to call the floor-person over I doubt you'd get anywhere, though the dealer might learn a lesson. I'd also be tempted to request the NGC if the floor-person did little more than shrugging it off. Again, I know this will result in nothing for the effort, but the dealer got to skate free for a clearly blatant foul, and that doesn't sit right for me either.

...and yeah, PH isn't great, so what can you expect?

 

[doakwolf]

Its illegal to tip dealers in Australia.

Id never even think about tipping a dealer in USA.

strange huh

Caught me out in Vegas on night one! Was pissed as a nit and on a lucky streak dragging in huge pot after pot and didn't tip a cent. I remember the dealer giving me a bit of shit at some point (made a joke to other players about me being clueless, too drunk etc) and I brushed it off because it was the truth (I was blind!). Was the following night a gentleman to my left let me know it's kosher to tip the dealer and it all made sense! haha

Whoopsies

 

[moojersey]

I once had a dealer look at my hand because she was curious what I had, but did not ask me first. I made a good button play and got someone to lay down the best hand. She thought I was bluffing and wanted to know if she was right. Of course it is none of her business...

I was a little annoyed but didn't make it an issue. It was a tourney so I was stuck. In a cash game I would probably rack out immediately.

If it's somewhere I'm not a regular I would say something to the floor before leaving.

 

[Aaron]

Dealers are like children. They should be seen and never heard.

Hate this! I'm a dealer. I dealt poker and other games for over 11 years. Training dealers of all sorts now. I'd be will to bet you appreciate the protection gained by having a dealer.

I'd stiff the dealer in the OP and if he/she was brash enough to admit they looked id be brash enough to tell them why I'm stiffing them.

I agree calling floor does nothing for you.

Another question is..... do dealers that work there play there? Think of the info gained.

 

[RowdyEstep51]

It comes down to as a player, I don't want any information leaked, only if players are paying to see. When i deal our local tournament, I never look at the cards except when I got the newbie players folding and telling me to look so later on they can ask for my opinion or advice on how to play that.