pocket 4s on the button (1 Viewer)

[Chippy McChiperson]

1/2 NLHE at Live! around 3:00 in the morning early on Saturday (or late on a Friday depending on your perspective). Your valiant hero is on the button with about $900, well covering everybody. His image to the people who don't know him is probably that the deck is hitting him in the face (it is). BB is a solid TAG who has about $400 or so. CO is a tag-ish girl who seems new to poker, but has been coached by her boyfriend (not present) so she has some semblance of an idea of what she is doing. She has about $300.

A couple of limps, and yours truly looks down and sees pocket fours. Hero bumps it up to $10, because a) he has position, b) he has a pocket pair and everyone else seems weak-ish, and c) he is a freaking degen who likes to raise whenever possible. BB and CO call, and the flop is JJ4 rainbow. BB checks, CO bets $7. Whatever is your esteemed hero to do?

 

[detroitdad]

Its unlikely she has an over pair. Could see her with a Jack and a decent kicker.

I feel like I'm ahead. If she is new and hit the jack she'll probably play for her stack. I'm betting 20-25.

 

[derekdd23]

What I would do is call and let her bluff off with her pocket 6s or whatever little pair she probably has. Your hand is way to strong to price others out at this point.

 

[manamongkids]

 

[detroitdad]

What I would do is call and let her bluff off with her pocket 6s or whatever little pair she probably has. Your hand is way to strong to price others out at this point.

If she is new, and has a small pair. She might not build a pot with it. I'd rather risk it and bet and take down the pot than check and end up with her checking as well. Plus, its more fun to bet

 

[atomiktoaster]

My gut is telling me call, but I can't seem to articulate a logical reason behind that position.

 

[manamongkids]

Id flat call, hoping to entice BB to check-raise. I also think if you flat, you are giving correct odds to the BB to call with basically any pair, high cards or even possibly Ace high. Lots of good turn cards for them, which appear to be good, but we know you have a great hand at this moment in time.

 

[Ronoh]

Boyfriend isn't there... was she hot? If so you have to first ask if she's ever seen a crisp $50 bill. Then slide two green chips over the betting line without taking your eyes away from hers and say "your move". A wink at this point is optional.

 

[derekdd23]

If she is new, and has a small pair. She might not build a pot with it. I'd rather risk it and bet and take down the pot than check and end up with her checking as well. Plus, its more fun to bet

I have actually told my GF to bet out here(although bigger) since

A. Most guys play tighter against women and will fold all non J or set hands
B Her hand is usually good and there are not a ton of turns that she wants to see. If she gets raised I tell her to fold.

Maybe I just play bad but it tends to work out for me.

 

[PhilLaFond]

Call and hope to drain her dry. A jack is easily within her range here and if she's new, she'll keep betting, and think she's good. No way anybody puts you on pocket 4s. I mean seriously, who raises with that crap??

 

[Ben]

WTF am I reading here ITT? The pot is $30+. She has $300, and BB has $400. If she bet $20-$25 calling might be the play - but she bet 7 F-ING DOLLARS. What are we really hoping for, if we flat maybe she will "fire" $10 on the turn? For the love of all that is holy, make it $35.

 

[DrStrange]

Just so we are clear - - - Jx vs 44 is a 3-1 dog. Hero will have a hard time ever folding his hand unless he can soul read the difference between AJ and jacks full.

So it isn't time to be tricky/trappy. Hero is going to have to work hard to get all the money in the middle. Bet this hard, $30 - $35.

DrStrange

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Hero takes the good Doctor's advice, and raises to $30. BB calls, as does CO. Turn is a king-ball. Checks to hero. What now?

 

[DrStrange]

Hero is flying blind into a buzz saw. But hero isn't folding.

Bet $100 to $125, planning to jam most rivers but puke fold to a king or a jack on the river. Hero will have to ponder hard if he gets check raised.

Needless to say, a river 4 would be sweet.

DrStrange

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I was thinking a river 4 would be sweet indeed. Anyway, after betting 30, and getting called twice I figured at least one and possibly both villains had a jack, and probably with a good kicker. They called a raise OOP preflop, and they called a bet-raise on the flop (although the initial bet was very small). So if one or both had a jack, with a good kicker, it's entirely possible one had KJ. I didn't want to go crazy with the hand if this was the case, so I figured I'd check behind and see what developed on the river.

River is a 9 ball. BB checks, CO bets $75. Hero???

 

[derekdd23]

Cant fold, probably shouldn't raise, so call.

 

[DrStrange]

If Hero's plan is a "safe" check down then the only thing to do is call and plan to fold to a check raise.

DrStrange

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

That's my plan, but what would you do?

 

[Ben]

Of course, KJ is POSSIBLE - so are AJ, QJ, JT, etc. - playing to not go broke to KJ (and failing to get full value from other jacks) is MUB syndrome. Bet $75 on the turn.

As played, raise to $175. I don't like our chances of getting a jam called by something like QJ - would have liked them a lot better on the turn.

 

[MoscowRadio]

It's my thought that you possibly missed out on information on the turn. The K is not a great card for you, but I'm still betting it for information purposes. This also causes you to give up the betting lead.

Just so I'm clear, pot is $31 pre-flop, $121 post-flop.

I'm betting around $80-$90 on the turn to see what BB and CO do.

CO bets $75 on the turn giving Hero better than 2.6 to 1 on a call, 3.6 to 1 if BB flats.

KJ is a real possibilities here, but so is AJ, QJ, and JT. I'm personally not raising here, but unless you can get some kind of crazy soul read, I don't think you should ever be folding here.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I call the $75, BB raises $100 on top, CO calls. Call or fold?

 

[phaze12]

1.light that c note on fire and call.
2. say nh when one of them rolls over the J9o or 99.
3. puke.

 

[MoscowRadio]

Here's why I hate this spot: you had BB left to act after you and he could very well be putting in a raise after you flat (which he did). CO obviously doesn't have a boat or she would have shipped it in after the re-raise. The pot is at $546 after BB's raise and CO's call and you have to put in $100 to win $546, or roughly 5.5 to 1 odds, meaning that you only have to have be right 15% of the time for this call to be profitable. I think it's a crying call.

My apologies if my math is off here. If it is, I hope someone will correct it.

If you feel like you made a mistake during this hand, @Chippy McChiperson, I'd be interested in knowing what you think it might've been. However, it's entirely possible that you just got 3-outered.

 

[fish72s]

Do you get a bronze medal for 3rd?

Just kidding. This is really sh*ty spot to be in. On one hand, you have a boat and are getting pretty good odds.
I suppose you could be up against QT and AJ. Or I saw a guy in a similar situation re-raise thinking his AK was good.
But no, one or both of them have KJ, J9, (or KK or JJ).

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Results: I was pretty sure CO just had a naked jack, but what could BB have that I'm beating? He was a solid player, and I didn't think he'd go all spewey with AJ. I folded fours (face up btw) and bb looked a little shocked when he flipped over KJ. CO showed J8 before she mucked.

I guess part of this is a humble brag about how I lost the minimum, but another part of me wonders if this was a profitable play long term? Maybe its better if I stack off here by betting big on the turn like Dr. Strange suggested? I mean I lost the minimum, but I also put myself in position to win the minimum. My God, am I turning into a n... a ni... I can't even say it.

 

[jbutler]

Sick, but I think fours full is a fold here. You're never in third, but you are almost always in second. That river action is just too gross to call.

I love to see people act like they could never fold here, though. Your hand is the equivalent of AJ. Does anyone think AJ would be good with this action?

 

[DrStrange]

I agree with the fold. The micro check/raise isn't a bluff hardly ever. Hero's underfull is toast.

DrStrange

 

[onerand]

Bet the turn. The river cr is gross but a fold. Never a bluff in that game. If you get cr on the turn you can fold, but with pride.

 

[bergs]

Even I fold because if BB action on river. He's have to be capable of running some pretty sick bluffs there for me to consider a call.

 

[jadillon]

Chippy as a nit! That is funny.