PLO - NFD (1 Viewer)

[xt!]

So playing some mid-week 5-5 PLO and there are some very interesting dynamics in play. The bigger games aren't going (presumably due to WSOP action in Las Vegas) and the 5-5 has a few big-game regs in it, but not the really good pros - just some of the better-than-your-average-fish, along with some 1-2 and 5-5 regs.

The players that matter:

I'm in EP in the 4 seat with 3k or so. I have been rather active this session - especially with players on my right who give a lot of action - I've been in most of the big pots since I joined the table.

The 5 seat is a 1-2 or 5-5 reg. Probably a small winner in the games. Middle aged, rather passive with both big made hands and big draws. He's been running very well and is playing about 2 or 3k.

6 seat is a 5-5, 5-10 player who I have only seen for the past few weeks. No reads on him. Playing about $1,000.

7 seat is a 5-10 and 10-25 reg. Plays very very few hands, other regs don't like playing any hands with him at all as they don't like rewarding his super nitty play in games that are anything but. This hand is about 3 orbits after I raised pre on the btn, flop AAc5c/2/8 and he check called me down with AQJ9 (he was good, I had a c draw) He hit the 5-10 for about 10k running well Friday night. He has about 2500 in play.

The hand.

I have Ah3h9dJd. We all know that this is plenty enough of a hand for me to raise from any position in a non-straddled hand when I am playing this deep. So we open for a PSB - $20.

4 callers, including the 3 listed and a blind.

Flop 5h6hQd.

Blind checks.

WWYD? What is the plan?

 

[bergs]

Sounds like 2 passive players, a blind, and a new guy playing (relatively) short. I'm betting $60 and float calling anything up to a single pot-sized bet. We can make the nuts on the turn (solid plan). Or we can pickup a wrap draw (K, T) with the flush draw, or let the hand go safely if we miss altogether.

 

[Racer96]

Everything xt just said in that one post got me excited.

Everything.

Mike

 

[detroitdad]

Sounds like 2 passive players, a blind, and a new guy playing (relatively) short. I'm betting $60 and float calling anything up to a single pot-sized bet. We can make the nuts on the turn (solid plan). Or we can pickup a wrap draw (K, T) with the flush draw, or let the hand go safely if we miss altogether.

Lock the thread......Bergs nailed it.

 

[jbutler]

get all your money in ASAP, spit in the middle of the table and leave the card room before you see whether you bink the flush.

try to his pedestrians as you drive out of the parking lot.

cry into your pillow.

look in the mirror and do your best stuart smalley impression.

contemplate a universe in which all your outs are removed for the deck as if by magic before any turn or river card is dealt.

cut your wrists (down the road, not across the street) and realize the sweet relief of never having to see another hand of PLO unless god knows about that one thing that you did that one time and decides to send you to hell in which you play HU PLO with howard lederer for eternity and he laughs like this after he wins every single hand.

sorry, i got destroyed in a PLO session on sunday and i guess i'm a little...prickly.

 

[Racer96]

In all seriousness, if XT doesn't pot it here, I'd be disappointed.

Mike

 

[onerand]

Agree with Bergs. With your style/image and many good turn cards, this is a bet.

 

[xt!]

Okay, so I'm still me. I bet 100. 5 and 6 both call. 7 raises to 500.

And now we're in a weird spot.

Wwyd? Why?

 

[jbutler]

still like my pot/repot/murder/suicide line.

 

[Racer96]

Guessing blind folded.

Seat 5 and 6 could be anything based on your reads.

Seat 7 is confusing. Top set no hearts?

I think that I would most likely call, and potentially call off any shove behind.

I think you might possibly repot basically shove right there. So many different dynamics in play. How long into the session, how long will game keep going, how long will nitty villain play.

Mike

 

[H|Q]

He's trying to run you out. You have lots of scare cards that can blow him off the turn. Float the flop, bet any turn that doesn't pair the board. Split the money with me.

 

[xt!]

I'd come over from a second table that was on the verge of breaking maybe an hour earlier. I was planning on playing another 2 or 3 hrs. Villain would probably be expected to play another hr or two at absolute most.

 

[Racer96]

I'd come over from a second table that was on the verge of breaking maybe an hour earlier. I was planning on playing another 2 or 3 hrs. Villain would probably be expected to play another hr or two at absolute most.

Rip it in.

Mike

 

[bergs]

Float call, unless you hit your flush on the turn, in which case your float call is retroactively upgraded to a gloat call.

(DISCLAIMER- board pairing river results in the flop call being retroactively downgraded to goat call. After further review, player should drive to Taco Bell, eat 18 tacos no tomato with hot sauce, drink 1/2 gallon whole milk on drive back, and make strafing runs throughout the poker room with his pants over his head while making ME-109 engine sounds).

 

[bergs]

CORRECTION: same thing as above, but make jet noises and periodically yell things like "POOPER 1 IS FEET DRY" and "FOXTROT ONE FOXTROT ONE".

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I mean as much as I would like to still you to jam here, I think folding is the correct play. If he's as nitty as you say, he most likely has top set. If you do hit a non board pairing heart are you going to get paid? Probably not. Just muck it and move on to the next hand.

 

[Ben]

Meh. I'm on board with the flop bet against these players - against stickier players I think it's a c/c spot all day, but we should have decent FE against these guys. But then our bet is met with a call, call, and a raise from ultra-nit. If we try to float (a risky proposition to begin with) we're more likely than average to see a shove from one of the guys behind due to stack sizes. All we actually have is a bare FD.

Hate to say it, but just fold.

 

[onerand]

Call the raise and plaplay the turn. you and villain are deep. You could pick up a lot of outs or villain could shut down on say a black 7 and give you a free card.

 

[xt!]

Ben, why wouldn't you want to see a shove from someone between? Isn't that really a pretty good scenario to have seat 5 jam and have 6 and 7 call? It's an unlikely scenario given the guy's tendencies but it's a good one.

I figured I can't raise bc I'm clearly behind at this point and if I flat either 5 or 6 would likely come along, if not both.

I flat, 5 and 6 fold (sigh) and we see a turn of 4d. Action on me.

Wwyd? Why? Plan for the rest of the hand?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Check and hope the guy with top set and the other guy who had the wrap and who now holds the nuts let you see a free card. If anyone pots it fold.

 

[kirchhausen]

Chippy, I think 5 and 6 both folded so it is just OP vs. Villain at this point. So if we can assume Villain has top set (and didn't have a monster wrap) we likely have 7 non-board-pairing flush outs plus 3 straight outs. With 42 unknown cards (still assuming set) we would need 33% equity to call a pot but would have about 24% so check calling is out.

What % of the time can you represent the monster wrap and get Villain to fold with top set? For that matter what %of the time would he have made the move with a monster wrap of his own?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Sorry, I need to read better. I thought it said they called, not folded. Also, I see we picked up another flush draw. If our diamonds are good, we are almost getting the right odds to call if he pots (assuming top set) . We know if he does have top set, both of his other cards must be diamonds, one of which must be higher than the Q. Probably not very likely. Also, we have a gutter to the wheel, which is also probably good. There's another three outs. so I call and hope to hit bingo on the river, I suppose.

You don't think he'd fold top set if you wanted to rep hitting a wrap and jam over whatever bet he makes, do you? Probably not, but if he's nitty enough you never know.

 

[H|Q]

Pot. Put the pressure on.

 

[kirchhausen]

Ah I missed the 2nd flush draw. I'd pot. Maybe Villain puts you on the wrap draw and folds. If not its likely you have 14-16 outs.

 

[Ben]

Ben, why wouldn't you want to see a shove from someone between? Isn't that really a pretty good scenario to have seat 5 jam and have 6 and 7 call? It's an unlikely scenario given the guy's tendencies but it's a good one.

If it happens exactly that way that would be a good situation (still not by a whole lot, assuming that 3 people getting it AI with you hold an above-average number of hearts.) If anybody folds anywhere along the way, then we're sticking our whole stack in in a -ev spot, that we could have got away from with minimal investment.

As played - must-bet. It depends on this player whether the better move is to bet smaller (~$700) now and then shove any non-board-pairing river, or just make a big bet now and hope he lays it down. If unsure, I'm taking the bet-bet line; I think the majority of players (even turbo nits) will sigh-shove with top set if faced with a PSB here, but call $700 and then fold a blank river.

 

[xt!]

I bet 1k, tossing out a single pumpkin.

He calls rather quickly.

River 2c.

What's the play?

 

[kirchhausen]

SO but I think he's probably raising on the turn if he had the monster wrap and got there. He's got about 1K behind and the pot is about $3200 if my math skills are working this morning. I think I would Jam

 

[Ben]

Shove. We're never folding if he bets and there are more hands he's calling with than betting with.

 

[Payback]

I bet 1k, tossing out a single pumpkin.

He calls rather quickly.

River 2c.

What's the play?

Xt I like your posts but if you could include previous action into the update post it would help keep track of things easier. Instead I have to keep scrolling to read comments. River is a bet.

 

[kirchhausen]

What was the action on the river?