Play Pocket 4’s at my local casino. (1 Viewer)

[Trihonda]

Playing a rather limpy 1/3 game at my local casino. Hero’s image is rather tight. sitting on around $150 in the BB. There are a few limpers and the Button (a TAG player who seems competent) opens for $17. The SB folds and our hero looks down at . Blinds + 3 limpers and the $17 open make the pot now $30.

What’s our play here? Fold, call or raise?

It’s $14 to make the call, folding seems un-fun, and if I raise, how much?

 

[Josh Kifer]

I'd flat if I was feeling Goosy.

 

[DrStrange]

Fold. Not even close. Fold >>>>>>tank fold>call~=jam.

Can hero set mine? Not so much - Risking $17 hoping to flop a set and then get button to stack off for $123 more. Hero is barely break even on the odds to make the set (much less win all the chips with it) in the best case. More often Hero flops a set and button misses his two big cards.

Can Hero jam? Well button isn't going to be under a lot of pressure with a premium hand. Hero's best case is getting folds, not that rare I think vs a stealish button raise. But if called Hero is flipping a tiny hair better than even money or a huge dog to an overpair.

This is a price for playing short stacked. Hero can't effectively play a hand that might prove profitable with deeper stacks.

Just say shucks, fold and go on -=- DrStrange

 

[Perthmike]

I’d fold and top up to at least 100bb

 

[johnjohn]

raise then laugh when he smooth calls.

 

[detroitdad]

fold

 

[johnjohn]

fold

Def the right play.

 

[Trihonda]

Seems like everyone is advocating for a FOLD... I suspected folks might make that recommendation... but you are ALL wrong... Hero calls, the CO also calls, pot is now $58

Flop is

Now what’s hero’s play?

 

[Frogzilla]

4s are too light to jam and probably too light to call with three limpers behind. Especially when we’re short and not getting much implied odds.

I’d probably flat 77-JJ in this spot, and jam QQ+

I fold 44.

On flop, I check all flops. Including where I have the set. Fuck yea love sets. It’s dry and we’re short so we can play this flop check-call.

 

[JustinInMN]

I think I agree, I am leaning on fold. The direct pot odds are okay 14 to win what will probably be 70 if you are confident the limpers are sticking too. But our spr will be under 2. There won't be a lot of play if we improve.

If we had the implied odds to get 70-80BB effective I think I can firmly be in the call camp here. But our stack really limits our upside.

Now is the part where you tell us you folded and flopped quads in what would have been a $1000 pot.

 

[detroitdad]

Ok, so you were ALL wrong about folding... Hero calls, the CO also calls, pot is now $58

Flop is

Now what’s hero’s play?

jam

 

[Perthmike]

Ok, so you were ALL wrong about folding... Hero calls, the CO also calls, pot is now $58

Flop is

Now what’s hero’s play?

With your stack depth I’m slow playing the crap out of the set, hoping to keep them adding to the pot, not caring about the chances of getting burned with the remaining cards.

 

[johnjohn]

glad i raised.

 

[JustinInMN]

Ok, so you were ALL wrong about folding... Hero calls, the CO also calls, pot is now $58

Flop is

Now what’s hero’s play?

Check and plan to shove. You should at least capture a c-bet from the pf raiser and probably get his stack if he has a good ace.

You could check and call hoping he will usually go two barrels with an ace I suppose.

But the first line I think makes more sense unless you think villian has the ability to make multi street bluffs.

 

[detroitdad]

With your stack depth I’m slow playing the crap out of the set, hoping to keep them adding to the pot, not caring about the chances of getting burned with the remaining cards.

I hate letting other players do my betting. Fucking jam

 

[colter ripton]

Check and jam over the top to any bet.

I also agree that because of stack depths it is a fold preflop.

 

[JustinInMN]

I hate letting other players do my betting. Fucking jam

This is a problem because we are betting about 1.7x pot. It's a disasterous bet if villian will fold AK to this size. Then we are praying villian has A9 exactly. Otherwise we're only getting called when we're beat.

If he has an ace we want villian to put the bet in for us. Or if he's going to bet king high, we don't want to prevent that. The board is so dry a check through probably doesn't hurt us.

 

[Perthmike]

I hate letting other players do my betting. Fucking jam

I appreciate the sentiment, but there’s nothing that announces “I have a set” more than jamming into three players. What else are you jamming on that board?

If it was deeper then I’d check raise, but with such a short stack, you are better eking every last dollar out of all of them.

 

[detroitdad]

I appreciate the sentiment, but there’s nothing like announcing “I have a set” than jamming into three players. What else are you jamming on that board?

your playing 1/3 at a casino.. mother fucking jam!!!!

 

[Perthmike]

your playing 1/3 at a casino.. mother fucking jam!!!!

True. But then I’m usually the pre flop aggressor, so I’d happily c bet my sets, but as the caller and out of position, it seems more profitable to check call or check raise.

We want to draw in multiple players.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Would've folded pre..... bet $35 post flop.......I'm gonna wait and see how my bottom set fairs against 2 overs, if anyone calls my hackles are up, if they raise I'm folding

BTW do you ever lose these less than marginal hands (gonna assume you won this hand since you posted it)

 

[Trihonda]

Hero checks his monster hand.. though it should be noted that Hero AND the CO were just having a discussion the previous hand about crazy set over set situations... does this factor into checking bottom set?

The CO checks and the button puts out a bet of $35. Let’s jump right to the fun decision.... Hero flats the $35, but the CO check jams for $100 total. The button glances at our hero with an evil grin and flats, inviting a call...

Not sure if this is relevant, but our hero and the CO have played together many times... he’s a very tight player... usually waits for AA or KK type hands, then plays them fast and hard... rarely ever seen bluffing, actually never witnessed him bluffing.

Pot was $58. Hero’s $35 is now committed. Plus CO’s $100 jam and Button’s $100 flat. Pot is now $293..

Fold, flat or jam?

..it’s $65 to call. Leaving around $50 behind... button covers with a larger stack.

Jamming costs $115-ish more

Folding costs the $35 committed already.

...dang, that set over set conversation keeps ringing in hero’s brain....

 

[navels]

stick. it. in.

 

[Gear]

Oh come on. If you're going to flop a set, then even consider a line of check-call-fold, why are you playing? Go home.

 

[Ethan]

Definitely fold. Implied odds too thin especially against a competent tag (when you hit your set). He is going to push you off ‘the best’ hand, when you have it, most flops.

Wait for a better spot.

Edit: this was pf suggestion... I am def late to the party. Get it all in!

 

[johnjohn]

Oh come on. If you're going to flop a set, then take a line of check-call-fold, why are you even playing? Go home.

^^this.

 

[Perthmike]

Fist pump shove.

Occasionally you will lose to a bigger set, but there will be plenty of two pairs and ace kings that put money into this pot.

You can’t ever fold a set like this.

 

[gopherblue]

Now you jam. But of course.

 

[Trihonda]

Ok, I hate strat threads that drag on too long... so let’s wrap this up...

Hero is facing a $65 raise. Hero thinks for a few, then flat calls... then seems reserved that there’s a possibility of being beaten and also being OOP, so hero checks it down both on the turn and river... (both bricks and meaningless).

However, I am sure hero planned to call off his last $50 if bet into....

Both the CO and and button table AK suited. Hero drags a nice $300+ pot, but left $50 of value on the table.

This hand played very weird IMHO. I was not personally the hero of this hand, but I wanted to tell the story from hero’s point of view, I believe mistakes were made by all players involved.

If I were hero, I’d certainly be folding weak holdings like 4’s preflop 100% of the time when facing large raises pre and in very early position. I’d also have put all my money in at some point after hitting my set.

If I were the CO, I’d probably not limp in the CO with AK in a very multi-way pot, and if for whatever reason I did, I’m certainly not going to cold call the $17 preflop bet very often. I’m putting in a 3-bet to ISO a fair amount of the time. I think failing to raise, allowed the hero to come into the pot. A raise by the CO would have gotten the 4’s to go away pre (100%).

I think the button made a mistake by calling the CO’s flop c/r from $35 to $100. Given the player dynamics and how tight this person plays normally, I’d expect him to show up here with sets and two pair hands a very decent percentage of the time. Also given that the hero also is yet to act behind is another reason to find a fold here.

For the reveal, I was the button. I did not like my play. Given the action and stack sizes, it put me in a weird spot. By calling the c/r from the CO, it left me with only $50 effective against the hero, who was yet to act. So when I flatted the c/r, I had debated jamming, but had a feeling our hero was potentially strong. Despite this, I knew that if the hero put in their final $50, it’d be hard for me to find a fold,,., and if I had these concerns going into calling the jam by the CO, I should have just let it go...

 

[JustinInMN]

it should be noted that Hero AND the CO were just having a discussion the previous hand about crazy set over set situations... does this factor into checking bottom set?

Let me put it this way, if hero is folding a set on a board like this, hero's preflop call goes from marginally bad to atrocious.

This hand played very weird IMHO. I was not personally the hero of this hand, but I wanted to tell the story from hero’s point of view, I believe mistakes were made by all players involved.

Ha! ha! Well played.

For the reveal, I was the button. I did not like my play. Given the action and stack sizes, it put me in a weird spot. By calling the c/r from the CO

I would agree calling seems to be the worst of the 3 options unless cutoff is very bluffy. Some players are so transparent on the the flop they never 3 bet with less than 2 pair, if cutoff is one of those fold with confidence. Otherwise I think you should be 3 bet-shoving with your stack size. In hopes sb has a lesser ace.

In reality cuttoff took a very weird line with AK by limping and checking the flop. Keep that in mind, if he's raising pf, it has to be a pair, and probably JJ+.

And as I said above, big blind needs to 100% play for his stack in this spot. Anything else is weak, be glad he saved you 50 bucks.