Tourney Pick apart this idea: Season-long single bounty (1 Viewer)

[WedgeRock]

The League: We play in a 20-person monthly tournament, $40 entry generally, mostly double rebuy, but some feeezeouts, mostly NLHE but some other variants. There are 20 regulars that have a seat to each event, but a handful of subs that fill empty seats. Subs get priority based on points earned, but are never guaranteed a seat. Most events need at least a few subs, so subs can play all 11 months and several subs have converted to full time players. Top 9 point earners play in a TOC in month 12.

In addition to tournament entry, there is currently an optional red/black aces jackpot. $5 to get in, if you are dealt red/black aces, you win the jackpot (usually $75-$100) and the jackpot resets.

Season-long Bounty idea: $5 per week to enter, but you have to commit for the season (11 weeks). First game of the season, one player draws for a bounty at random.

When the Bounty player gets knocked out

1. If they are knocked out by someone who is in the season-long Bounty, the bounty passes.
2. If they are knocked out by someone who is not in the season-long Bounty, they are considered as ending the night with the Bounty the bet is converted to a Last Longer bet among those participating in the Season-long Bounty. Whoever last longest, ends the night with the Bounty.

Whoever ends the night with the bounty gets $20 the monthly prize and starts the next monthly tournament with the bounty. This repeats each week through the first 10 events. The person holding it last at the last tournament wins whatever is left in the prize pool.

3rd place at the final tournament is about $195, so I was thinking the final SLB payout should be about the same, ~$200.

If 10 people get in, that's $550 ($5 * 10 players * 11 weeks) minus 10 weeks at $20 for the monthly prize, so $550-$200=$350 to the last bounty holder.

The monthly prize is based on a sliding scale, contingent on the numbers of entrants.

• $20 35/month if 10 entrants ($350200 final prize),
• $30 60/month if 15 entrants ($525225 final prize), or
• $40 90/month if 20+ entrants ($700200 final prize).

In addition to adding some fun, it would encourage full attendance (because you have to pay the $5 whether you're in or not) and would definitely encourage attendance the final week, even if you're not in the running for TOC.

Thoughts?

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Edits: old language struck out, new language in bold.

 

[BGinGA]

Far be it from me to disparage another person's bounty tournament idea.

But $20 for each monthly bounty winner except $350 for the last one seems a bit skewed, with no particular difference from the rest of the winners. Aren't you essentially awarding the $350 to the last tourney winner (assuming 100% participation)?

 

[WedgeRock]

$20 for each monthly bounty winner except $350 for the last one seems a bit skewed, with no particular difference from the rest of the winners.

Fair point, but it's a season-long Bounty, not a Monthly+Season long bounty. The monthly payout is just a carrot and a way to spread the wealth around. The big payout is intended to be the final tournament bounty.

Would this inequity be enough to keep you from participating? We could cap the final payout at increase the monthly payouts proportionally.

 

[Frogzilla]

If I’m holding the bounty in last tourney I need to try and get knocked out by one of the players not in the pool? And if I win the bounty in the last tourney by knocking out that player, I need to get knocked out by a player not in the pool to keep it?

odd incentives will crop up

 

[bsdunbar1]

an optional red/black aces jackpot. $5 to get in, if you are dealt red/black aces, you win the jackpot (usually $75-$100) and the jackpot resets.

I will implement this

 

[WedgeRock]

odd incentives will crop up

Agreed. It becomes less of an issue the more that people participate.

With high numbers, you don't get as many opportunities to get knocked out by someone not participating in the Bounty. But with low numbers and a short stack, it's easy to call an early raise and/or shove all in in the hopes that you get knocked out and win the bounty.

FWIW, the final tournament is a deep stack, high buy-in, so there's pretty good prize money up top, relatively speaking. But maybe capping the bounty at something like 3rd place money and giving out more monthly would be better.

I guess if you make the monthly payout too much, you're creating the same problem.

 

[WedgeRock]

I will implement this

There's a bunch of issues with how to run this fairly.

You've been warned.

 

[WedgeRock]

Decided the monthly payout should be larger and the season ending payout should be smaller to address both @BGinGA and @Frogzilla's concerns and disincentivize manipulating the bounty.

 

[moose]

I feel sorry for whomever has the large bounty on their head. Especially since it is the final with larger prizes to play for. Season ending bounty should be a mystery bounty spread out among all the players participating.

 

[WedgeRock]

I feel sorry for whomever has the large bounty on their head

That's the thing. It doesn't payout until everyone in the SLB is knocked out. So even if you hold it in the final tournament, you don't necessarily collect...

mystery bounty

spread out among all the players participating.

Unfortunately, the whole league won't participate. They consider ROI and not pure gambool.

 

[Frogzilla]

Decided the monthly payout should be larger and the season ending payout should be smaller to address both @BGinGA and @Frogzilla's concerns and disincentivize manipulating the bounty.

My concern was more about winning one’s own bounty by getting knocked out…that’s a weird incentive. If the bounty is too small to matter in scheme of tournament then fine but then again you can just do without the bounty.

Better way to do something like this is instead a different way of awarding the bounty
1) if you knock out the bounty player, you win the bounty then and there
2) if the bounty player is knocked out by someone not in the pool, its converted to a last longer among the remaining pool participants.

 

[WedgeRock]

if you knock out the bounty player, you win the bounty then and there

The problem here is it's a 2-table tournament. Setting aside table-balancing, half the field can't win the monthly bounty.

if the bounty player is knocked out by someone not in the pool, its converted to a last longer among the remaining pool participants.

This nails it. No incentive to get knocked out by someone not in the tournament, because those left are now playing for the bounty, not you.

 

[moose]

That's the thing. It doesn't payout until everyone in the SLB is knocked out. So even if you hold it in the final tournament, you don't necessarily collect...






Unfortunately, the whole league won't participate. They consider ROI and not pure gambool.

Right so everyone is going to gun for the person currently holding the big bounty.

Doesn't matter if everyone doesn't participate, if 10 do, then make up 10 envelopes, and hand out a button to each participant. If a bounty particpant gets knocked out, the winner of the hand gets the bounty chip, but they can't cash it, unless they are also a participant. When a participant collects a bounty chip, then they can cash it in for a mystery bounty. The last surviving participant automatically collects any remaining envelopes. Make most of the envelopes something small like $5-$20, and a couple medium ones, and one larger one. Then all the participants have a shot at collecting some bounty money in the final, and the suckers that didn't participate will feel dumb when they collect a bounty chip that they can't cash in - let the shaming begin!

Because the amount to be won is a mystery, then it won't affect play so much.

You can even get inventive and make some gag mystery envelopes like a BOGO coupon for Dairy Queen or something.

 

[Nine_high]

The League: We play in a 20-person monthly tournament, $40 entry generally, mostly double rebuy, but some feeezeouts, mostly NLHE but some other variants. There are 20 regulars that have a seat to each event, but a handful of subs that fill empty seats. Subs get priority based on points earned, but are never guaranteed a seat. Most events need at least a few subs, so subs can play all 11 months and several subs have converted to full time players. Top 9 point earners play in a TOC in month 12.

In addition to tournament entry, there is currently an optional red/black aces jackpot. $5 to get in, if you are dealt red/black aces, you win the jackpot (usually $75-$100) and the jackpot resets.

Season-long Bounty idea: $5 per week to enter, but you have to commit for the season (11 weeks). First game of the season, one player draws for a bounty at random.

When the Bounty player gets knocked out

1. If they are knocked out by someone who is in the season-long Bounty, the bounty passes.
2. If they are knocked out by someone who is not in the season-long Bounty, they are considered as ending the night with the Bounty the bet is converted to a Last Longer bet among those participating in the Season-long Bounty. Whoever last longest, ends the night with the Bounty.

Whoever ends the night with the bounty gets $20 the monthly prize and starts the next monthly tournament with the bounty. This repeats each week through the first 10 events. The person holding it last at the last tournament wins whatever is left in the prize pool.

3rd place at the final tournament is about $195, so I was thinking the final SLB payout should be about the same, ~$200.

If 10 people get in, that's $550 ($5 * 10 players * 11 weeks) minus 10 weeks at $20 for the monthly prize, so $550-$200=$350 to the last bounty holder.

The monthly prize is based on a sliding scale, contingent on the numbers of entrants.

• $20 35/month if 10 entrants ($350200 final prize),
• $30 60/month if 15 entrants ($525225 final prize), or
• $40 90/month if 20+ entrants ($700200 final prize).

In addition to adding some fun, it would encourage full attendance (because you have to pay the $5 whether you're in or not) and would definitely encourage attendance the final week, even if you're not in the running for TOC.

Thoughts?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Edits: old language struck out, new language in bold.

Maybe I'm missing something....but isn't this effectively just a normal, optional last longer bet? I don't see how it is a bounty.

 

[WedgeRock]

Looking at just one month, it is a LLB. But it carries over month-to-month, so it's hard to describe it as a LLB.

 

[Nine_high]

Right so there's a seasonal progressive aspect to it. I win about half of the week's pool if I win the LLB that night, and the 11th winner wins the progressive. Is that about right?

I still don't see how it is a bounty, other than it sounds like you're using a single bounty chip to track it throughout each night? I just don't understand why a player starts the night with it, there's nothing special other than it shows that player won some cash last month. It's still just a LLB.

Edit:

As described, it actually doesn't even sound progressive. If I understand it correctly, you could collect $55 from each participant on month one, put $200 in an envelope and write "month 11" on it, divide the remaining amount by 10 and put into 10 envelopes marked "month 1" - "month 10". It makes no difference who wins one month to the next. The amounts are all predetermined based on the number of participants. And week 11 is worth 2x-4x more because it's the last one.

All this to say, I'm not exactly sure I hate it, but it doesn't have a progressive build or bounty-like feel to it. Just a bunch of LLBs.

 

[WedgeRock]

Not a progressives definitely.

Sort of a LLB/Bounty hybrid, but calling it a LLB is not really wrong.

It's like the at Tour de France...the current leader/last month's LLB winner wear a yellow jersey/gets a bounty chip for the next leg.