PAHWM: P* tourney (1 Viewer)

[Beakertwang]

This is in tonight's $15 NLHE KO game. 6 players remaining of 17. 3 places pay.

Blinds are 1000/2000, 250 ante.

SB: 48k
BB: 29k
UTG: 44k folds
HJ: 62k folds
CO Villain: 91
BTN Hero: 67k

Villain is solid, aggressive, keeps pressure on. Runs ridiculously hot for weeks at a time.

Folds to villain, who raises to 6000.

Hero, who is generally considered nitty, and mediocre, on the button with .

Action?

 

[Eriks]

I’d 3-bet this to about 15-16k and fold to a shove.

 

[BGinGA]

Jam. He never has it.

 

[cpac54]

I won’t claim to be any kind of tournament poker player, but in this spot for me the choice is either fold or 3 bet. I likely 3-bet ATo more often against an aggressive player, especially given Hero’s nitty image.

CO range here can be pretty wide I think. If I think the Villian is raising as an attempt to steal from the CO, I’m 3-betting here to 16-18k and folding to a shove. I’m curious to see the advice from some of the better players on here

 

[DrStrange]

I prefer a fold.

Hero might have solid plans for a 3-bet / fold line but what is the post flop plan for a 3-bet / call? Most flops miss ATo, is Hero going to c-bet most flops? Position matters and is a big plus for this situation. Even so I can't help but feel this is a serious reverse implied odds situation brewing.

Hero is under no pressure to play this hand < M = ~15 >. Villain is the chip leader, so if things go wrong Hero can get busted out. Patience is your friend, let's b be patient -=- DrStrange

 

[doughboy63]

I probably shouldn’t comment since I was at the table. I am curious to see how the consensus plays this hand though.

 

[doughboy63]

I prefer a fold.

Hero might have solid plans for a 3-bet / fold line but what is the post flop plan for a 3-bet / call? Most flops miss ATo, is Hero going to c-bet most flops? Position matters and is a big plus for this situation. Even so I can't help but feel this is a serious reverse implied odds situation brewing.

Hero is under no pressure to play this hand < M = ~15 >. Villain is the chip leader, so if things go wrong Hero can get busted out. Patience is your friend, let's b be patient -=- DrStrange

so I always enjoy your insight on hands. Is your fold bc it is a tournament? I would have to think you’d want to see a flop in position to a 3xBB raise with A10o six handed? Maybe I’m just too loose, but I call here all day. But then again this Villian routinely takes my money

 

[cpac54]

so I always enjoy your insight on hands. Is your fold bc it is a tournament? I would have to think you’d want to see a flop in position to a 3xBB raise with A10o six handed? Maybe I’m just too loose, but I call here all day. But then again this Villian routinely takes my money

I too would be curious how @DrStrange plays this in a 6max Cash Game (if he would indeed change his line there).

 

[Frogzilla]

Do the blinds squeeze jam much? If so, just fold. If not, I like a flat here with a couple offsuit broadways and position

 

[Highli99]

This is in tonight's $15 NLHE KO game. 6 players remaining of 17. 3 places pay.

Blinds are 1000/2000, 250 ante.

SB: 48k
BB: 29k
UTG: 44k folds
HJ: 62k folds
CO Villain: 91
BTN Hero: 67k

Villain is solid, aggressive, keeps pressure on. Runs ridiculously hot for weeks at a time.

Folds to villain, who raises to 6000.

Hero, who is generally considered nitty, and mediocre, on the button with .

Action?

If the hero was out of position with this hand I suggest calling a 4 bet from a 15% vpip villain. Then floating pot sized bet on a 883 rainbow flop. Then donk betting a pot sized bet on 2 turn and calling villains reraise. Because you know your ace is coming on the river.

I'm not bitter.

Sorry for derailing your analysis. I hope you won last night.

 

[Beakertwang]

If the hero was out of position with this hand I suggest calling a 4 bet from a 15% vpip villain. Then floating pot sized bet on a 883 rainbow flop. Then donk betting a pot sized bet on 2 turn and calling villains reraise. Because you know your ace is coming on the river.

I'm not bitter.

Sorry for derailing your analysis. I hope you won last night.

I don’t recall playing that hand.

 

[MrCatPants]

He got second

 

[MrCatPants]

This is in tonight's $15 NLHE KO game. 6 players remaining of 17. 3 places pay.

Blinds are 1000/2000, 250 ante.

SB: 48k
BB: 29k
UTG: 44k folds
HJ: 62k folds
CO Villain: 91
BTN Hero: 67k

Villain is solid, aggressive, keeps pressure on. Runs ridiculously hot for weeks at a time.

Folds to villain, who raises to 6000.

Hero, who is generally considered nitty, and mediocre, on the button with .

Action?

Ok. Who was who? I'm assuming villain was @Moxie Mike?

 

[cpac54]

He got second

Spoiler Alert!

 

[Beakertwang]

Ok. Who was who? I'm assuming villain was @Moxie Mike?

You are correct. You were the SB.

 

[Beakertwang]

Do the blinds squeeze jam much? If so, just fold. If not, I like a flat here with a couple offsuit broadways and position

Except for a couple exceptions, most of the players are capable of squeeze jams in these games, especially with ~20BB.

 

[cpac54]

Except for a couple exceptions, most of the players are capable of squeeze jams in these games, especially with ~20BB.

If a sneeze jam here is more likely than not, I tend towards a fold here upon reflection.

My initial thought towards a 3 bet was based on assumption of CO trying to steal couples with Hero’s image of being fairly nitty. The goal with the 3 bet being to take down the pot pre-flop. If CO is likely to continue or jam regardless, I’m more than likely out of the hand right here.

 

[DrStrange]

In a cash game. . . . .

ATo is roughly a top 15% hand. On a six player table that is right on the cusp of the average best hand. In relatively good position that is an acceptable opening hand.

However Hero isn't opening, he is facing a raise. Even if he knows villain is rather active - say raising 25% of the time - Hero's hand is behind villain's opening hand range. Hero has no clue where he is in the hand. Is pairing the ten good? < I'd say yes, hopefully > Is pairing the ace good?? < maybe so, maybe not > If Hero is c-betting on air, is his ace high best?

In a cash game there are critical factors depending on stack sizes. The shorter the stacks, the better I like playing ATo. But not so much when stacks are deep. ATo is a top pair kind of hand. Hero will be quite lucky to make a hand better than top pair. Hero isn't flopping a draw very often. I'd rather be playing JTo or T9o than playing ATo.

I wouldn't be playing ATo in this circumstance at a cash game. Hero is much shorter stacked in the tournament than he likely is in a cash game. I think this hand is marginally troubling with an M = 15. I see it as something to avoid playing 200bb+ deep in a cash game. Especially vs a villain who is known to put us to the test with aggression.

call me chicken if you wish -=- DrStrange

 

[BGinGA]

I prefer a fold.

Hero might have solid plans for a 3-bet / fold line but what is the post flop plan for a 3-bet / call? Most flops miss ATo, is Hero going to c-bet most flops? Position matters and is a big plus for this situation. Even so I can't help but feel this is a serious reverse implied odds situation brewing.

Hero is under no pressure to play this hand < M = ~15 >. Villain is the chip leader, so if things go wrong Hero can get busted out. Patience is your friend, let's b be patient -=- DrStrange

I'm getting mixed signals here. You state that 'position matters and is a big plus for this situation', yet advocate a fold from the button vs a villain with a reputation for raising light (and typically folding vs a big re-raise when out-of-position).

 

[doughboy63]

I don’t recall playing that hand.

@Highli99
pretty sure that was me. Your bet leaving 2k behind felt fishy to me. I figured if you were good you would have jammed. Obviously I was wrong and got lucky. But that was my thinking. I am too sticky sometimes. It a leak I’m working on. Put that in your notes.

 

[doughboy63]

In a cash game. . . . .

ATo is roughly a top 15% hand. On a six player table that is right on the cusp of the average best hand. In relatively good position that is an acceptable opening hand.

However Hero isn't opening, he is facing a raise. Even if he knows villain is rather active - say raising 25% of the time - Hero's hand is behind villain's opening hand range. Hero has no clue where he is in the hand. Is pairing the ten good? < I'd say yes, hopefully > Is pairing the ace good?? < maybe so, maybe not > If Hero is c-betting on air, is his ace high best?

In a cash game there are critical factors depending on stack sizes. The shorter the stacks, the better I like playing ATo. But not so much when stacks are deep. ATo is a top pair kind of hand. Hero will be quite lucky to make a hand better than top pair. Hero isn't flopping a draw very often. I'd rather be playing JTo or T9o than playing ATo.

I wouldn't be playing ATo in this circumstance at a cash game. Hero is much shorter stacked in the tournament than he likely is in a cash game. I think this hand is marginally troubling with an M = 15. I see it as something to avoid playing 200bb+ deep in a cash game. Especially vs a villain who is known to put us to the test with aggression.

call me chicken if you wish -=- DrStrange

thanks for the reply. I appreciate how thorough you explain your thought process.

 

[Beakertwang]

@Highli99
pretty sure that was me. Your bet leaving 2k behind felt fishy to me. I figured if you were good you would have jammed. Obviously I was wrong and got lucky. But that was my thinking. I am too sticky sometimes. It a leak I’m working on. Put that in your notes.

Oh, yeah. I believe I was at the other table, but I saw the aftermath.

 

[Frogzilla]

In a cash game. . . . .

Even if he knows villain is rather active - say raising 25% of the time - Hero's hand is behind villain's opening hand range.

Even if he knows villain is rather active - say raising 25% of the time - Hero's hand is behind villain's opening hand range. Hero has no clue where he is in the hand.

I wouldn't be playing ATo in this circumstance at a cash game.

This felt way too tight so I ran the numbers...

ATo is 53% against a CO raising 25% and there is some dead money from the blinds and you get position postflop on all three streets.

Playing wide ranges is a little difficult, but your opponent also is facing a wide calling range and is out of position. I play this hand

Edit: analysis in this post for cash game

 

[Highli99]

@Highli99
pretty sure that was me. Your bet leaving 2k behind felt fishy to me. I figured if you were good you would have jammed. Obviously I was wrong and got lucky. But that was my thinking. I am too sticky sometimes. It a leak I’m working on. Put that in your notes.

my raise instead of Jam was a mis-click. My wife distracted me. Still, I was happy for the call and shouldn’t complain because of An unlucky run out.

 

[doughboy63]

my raise instead of Jam was a mis-click. My wife distracted me. Still, I was happy for the call and shouldn’t complain because of An unlucky run out.

that’s interesting. I don't know for sure that I fold if you had jammed it all in since I had already bluffed off 5k but the 2k left behind was what got me thinking and eventually calling. Live I’ve noticed that players who “leave a little behind” when putting out a big bet in a tourney rarely have it. It’s like they subconsciously dont want to bust if they are wrong or something.

 

[doughboy63]

my raise instead of Jam was a mis-click. My wife distracted me. Still, I was happy for the call and shouldn’t complain because of An unlucky run out.

also you better complain about the run out. Half the fun of poker is bitching when you get sucked out on

 

[MrCatPants]

If a sneeze jam here is more likely than not, I tend towards a fold here upon reflection.

My initial thought towards a 3 bet was based on assumption of CO trying to steal couples with Hero’s image of being fairly nitty. The goal with the 3 bet being to take down the pot pre-flop. If CO is likely to continue or jam regardless, I’m more than likely out of the hand right here.

I will say, if I'm remembering when this hand is happening, there had been many recent hands that had not seen a flop - so stealing was working.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Villain is solid, aggressive, keeps pressure on. Runs ridiculously hot for weeks at a time. Studies the game and his opponents' tendencies and fully expects to win every tournament he enters, especially PCF Scrub Donkgeneratefests.

FYP.

He never has it.

This we agree on.

Ok. Who was who? I'm assuming villain was @Moxie Mike?

I wasn't going to identify myself as the villain, but since the cat is out of the pants, I'm curious as to how this extra piece of information might affect people's advice.

my raise instead of Jam was a mis-click. My wife distracted me. Still, I was happy for the call and shouldn’t complain because of An unlucky run out.

also you better complain about the run out. Half the fun of poker is bitching when you get sucked out on

Get a room you two

 

[Beakertwang]

Ok, back to my thing...

Blinds are 1000/2000, 250 ante.

SB: 48k
BB: 29k
UTG: 44k folds
HJ: 62k folds
CO Villain: 91
BTN Hero: 67k

Villain is solid, aggressive, keeps pressure on. Runs ridiculously hot for weeks at a time.

Folds to villain, who raises to 6000.

Hero, who is generally considered nitty, and mediocre, on the button with .

I flat call.

Obviously, most of you think that’s the worst option. But villain does open wide, and I don’t mind seeing a flop in position against him. If one of the blinds jam, I can evaluate when action gets back to me, and easily fold, retaining one of the bigger stacks. If hero raises, and it’s re-popped, hero is in a tougher spot with even a smaller stack.

Blinds fold, and flop is:


Villian leads for 6000.

Hero?

 

[MrCatPants]

I wasn't going to identify myself as the villain, but since the cat is out of the pants, I'm curious as to how this extra piece of information might affect people's advice.

I have an answer here, but I'm not going to share it