PAHWM: $1/$2 QQ in unusual spot (1 Viewer)

[Legend5555]

1/2 App game on Pokerrrrr 2

Villain is an late 50s female I play with live fairly frequently. Limps a lot. Raises fairly tight. But raises bigger with hands she doesn't like playing post flop like medium to high pairs, AQ, AK. Limps KJo in early to middle position. Will raise hands like it to "normal" size if folded to get in later positions.

Standard open raise in this game is $6-10 depending on the player. Her standard is $6-8.

Villain is the effective stack at $189 and is in +1. Hero covers at $305 and is in HJ.

UTG folds.
+1 raises to $12.
Folds to Hero.
Hero 3 bets to $35 with .
Folds back to +1 who snap calls.

Pot: $73
Eff stack: $154
Flop:

+1 checks.

Hero?

 

[CraigT78]

Jam.

(I'm a terrible poker player)

 

[Legend5555]

(I'm a terrible poker player)

 

[CraigT78]

Okay, I'm not jamming (yet), but I'm betting $45 here to see where I'm at.

 

[Burke]

Bet $30

 

[Eriks]

Dry flop, I’d bet small (25ish) some and check back some.

 

[ChipFinderSK]

I’m betting $35-40 on the flop (assuming this will fold out AQ, low PP type hands) and shutting down if she calls/raises.

 

[mipevi]

Bet $22 and say ”quack-quack”

 

[Frogzilla]

How often are you cbetting here. If you wanna do the delay that’s fine. If you wanna bet range small (30%ish) that’s fine too

I prob check or bet 30% depending how bluffy I’ve seen Villain be (bluffy villains get the check back).

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I check in position here on the flop to keep the pot small. Disguises the strength of your hand for showdown value vs TT JJ and creates raising potential if you want to rep 44 77 later and know V is capable of laying down 1 pair. If you bet half to even pot here any KJ KQ AK or better is calling or worse raising. If you’re prepared to throw away QQ to a raise that’s one thing but if not then the question becomes what do you do when they fire after the turn if a Q doesn’t peel off?

 

[boltonguy]

check. I dont think better hands are folding. Some worse hands are probably calling once like AQ/AJ/JJ/TT.
I do think a +1 open has a lot of Kx in range. Onboard with @DirtyTIVA above
Her raise size is larger than normal and she snap called the 3!. I'd be wary. She is X 100% of her range here so no new info.

 

[Stackme]

If I 3 bet pre here with AA, KK, or AK, then I would be betting this flop for value, so thats what I would do here too - likely 25-30% pot, targeting 88-JJ and all the backdoors and maybe even keeping an odd 7 in there for value.
So, continuation bet of $20 ish, with plan of calling reasonable sized check raises with the one over card flop.

 

[ninedeuce]

1/2 App game on Pokerrrrr 2

Villain is an late 50s female I play with live fairly frequently. Limps a lot. Raises fairly tight. But raises bigger with hands she doesn't like playing post flop like medium to high pairs, AQ, AK. Limps KJo in early to middle position. Will raise hands like it to "normal" size if folded to get in later positions.

Standard open raise in this game is $6-10 depending on the player. Her standard is $6-8.

Villain is the effective stack at $189 and is in +1. Hero covers at $305 and is in HJ.

UTG folds.
+1 raises to $12.
Folds to Hero.
Hero 3 bets to $35 with .
Folds back to +1 who snap calls.

Pot: $73
Eff stack: $154
Flop:

+1 checks.

Hero?

So, without knowing anything about villain, I'd normally bet small here. E.g., $20 (or even $15) into the $73 pot. We have a range advantage, nut advantage is less clear. Range advantage dictates betting frequently, nut advantage dictates sizing, so I'd just go small.

But we do have some data about the villain (bolded), and her raise and position indicate she's got 77-QQ, AQ or AK. Against that range, your QQ has 64% equity on this flop. But your btn 3b range is about even.

So seems like either a check or a small bet makes sense here.

If I bet small, it's a win if she calls with worse, and it's also a win if she folds and denies herself the equity of hitting a set with her lower pairs.

You haven't said anything about villain's post flop play, but imagine she's relatively passive and straightforward, e.g., doesn't bluff enough. So the other advantage of betting small is it allows you to get away cheaply to a checkraise.

I tend to check this flop back against bluffier, more aggressive players, and tend to range bet small against more passive players.

In this case I'd bet $20.

 

[JMC9389]

Given the read on this player, that they lead for a large amount preflop tells me they have a good but not great hand. I'd three bet a bit larger to $45 or so with this in mind. Doesn't change much, but they won't love it if your read is right. $35 gives a much better price to call.

There are merits to c-betting and checking here. As @boltonguy says, you're not getting called by much that doesn't beat queens. I check back with the intent to play the last two streets very carefully. I can maybe find a fold to aggression or further scare cards on later streets.

 

[Legend5555]

You haven't said anything about villain's post flop play, but imagine she's relatively passive and straightforward, e.g., doesn't bluff enough. So the other advantage of betting small is it allows you to get away cheaply to a checkraise.

You are pretty much on track. I've seen her bluff, but it's rare and never in big pots/3 bet pots (then again I'm one of the few that actually 3 bets with stuff other than premiums). She, like a lot of live players, will donk to "find out where she is at." Not at a super high frequency.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

My thinking is the stakes are relatively low. QQ on a K high flop as played will not win you a monster pot and hopefully doesn’t lose you a lot either. I would try to make it to showdown without putting a lot more in. Maybe AQ/88-JJ thinks they’re good and checks down the river. Sure you can potentially push nitty KJs KQs off with aggressive turn betting but the short starting stacks just invites V to shove on your value bets here. And now you’re in the blender. If I was stuck and playing as V I would jam a flop bet with any K. Not easy for hero to call in that spot with anything less than AK/AA/set.

 

[Legend5555]

Part 2
1/2 App game on Pokerrrrr 2

Villain is an late 50s female I play with live fairly frequently. Limps a lot. Raises fairly tight. But raises bigger with hands she doesn't like playing post flop like medium to high pairs, AQ, AK. Limps KJo in early to middle position. Will raise hands like it to "normal" size if folded to get in later positions.

Standard open raise in this game is $6-10 depending on the player. Her standard is $6-8.

Villain is the effective stack at $189 and is in +1. Hero covers at $305 and is in HJ.

UTG folds.
+1 raises to $12.
Folds to Hero.
Hero 3 bets to $35 with .
Folds back to +1 who snap calls.

Pot: $73
Eff stack: $154
Flop:

+1 checks.
Hero bets $23.
+1 quickly calls.

Given that I think the villain plays pretty straightforward, and this is a high but not 100% bet type flop. I elect to range bet. I feel if she has AK, she is probably going to check/raise or even lead with some frequency. And I think the small bet gets called by 99+ a decent amount.

Pot: $119
Eff stack: $131
Turn:

+1 waits about 4 seconds then jams for $131.

Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

Can't fold fast enough. Villain turned trips.

 

[Frogzilla]

Weird line and certainly annoying but you don’t have enough Kx to defend and qq is relevant KQ double blocker so I think a call is reasonable

 

[DirtyTIVA]

It’s possible V is jamming here with TT JJ and doesn’t want to overthink what to do if you bet again. Doesn’t feel like AK here. In my area this could even be 45h semibluff to put pressure on you to fold exactly what you have.

If you think V is a real abc player this is a clear fold. If you think V is capable of not having Kx here then the stacks are small enough to call hoping V has underpair to your Queens. I feel as played I would call if for nothing more than information.

 

[boltonguy]

seems like a clear fold to me.

 

[Eriks]

Very villain dependant imo. Seems like a toss up here. Usually, I’d rather hero call and be wrong than hero fold and be wrong when I’m in doubt

 

[shorticus]

Villian leading here is a mistake. Nothing has really changed on the board except a FD. If you’re plan is to lead turn, you may as well CR flop with a K. Villian should be checking back all turn cards unless she’s putting you on a back door flush draw (which would be super weird).

As far as villian’s range is concerned, we can eliminate AA, AK, KQ (all combos). I guess we can give her credit for combinations of KJ, KT, K9 suited. 77, 44 can be considered (all of which have us screwed. Other hands that can theoretically continue are TT+. Also, based on your analysis, you have to give her credit for some of those unsuited combos as well.

Question: How many players are playing? It’s relevant to me cause maybe we can eliminate some of those K’s based on the size of the table Villian leads into.

As of now, I’m not opposed to a call, but I’m not going to complain much about a fold. Probably 60/40 call to fold for me.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Simply put for me: if you think she’s a bad player, fold. If you think she’s a good player, call.

 

[Legend5555]

Simply put for me: if you think she’s a bad player, fold. If you think she’s a good player, call.

Trick statement. Good players wouldn't do this!

 

[Eriks]

If she’s lol bad - fold, and if she’s shove-because-she-doesn’t-know-what-to-do-when-you-bet-bad - call.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero hand has become a bluff catcher. Is villain making a play? If so, Hero calls. Is Villain's game basically ABC poker? If so then fold.

This is a villain read question. Kind of need to be at the table to figure it out. At least, we need to know the players somewhat better than the Villain description in the original post.

 

[CraigT78]

If you shoved pre, there would be no decision to make.

Follow me for more NLHE advice.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Trick statement. Good players wouldn't do this!

Modern poker theory. Specifically to get your hand to fold. If you think V is capable of 3 betting with a suited connector/1 gapper with or without position then she is certainly capable of shoving here without a K. Admittedly this is online 1/2. How out of line do people get anyway right? Curious to hear the outcome.

If you had AA in this spot what percentage of the time do you see yourself folding? And let’s say the stakes were 5/10 instead. Thought exercise.

 

[shorticus]

Interesting question here and a hand I potentially missed. In theory with this hand, this line kinda makes sense. What about

That’s a possible hand here and a shove (while very bold) could be a thing here. Raise, flat, float, and get a really good turn card. It’s a bold move, but it’s possible.