PAHWM: AA in multiway spot vs solid reg and maniac (1 Viewer)

[Legend5555]

Online App game.

UTG+2 is a loose splashy player. Earlier in the session he raises in MP and called a 3 bet from the solid reg who was in position and stacked the refs on for 120bb.

LJ is a solid reg. Tight aggressive. Doesn't get out of line too often, but it's capable of raising and sometimes 3 betting with non-premiuns.

BB is gambly loose player. Rarely folds pre. Has cold called many 3 bets. Will sometimes go nuts pre with garbage. Post flop, if given any rope, will start blasting away.

260bb effective

UTG+2 opens to 5bb, bigger than normal for him.
LJ 3 bets to 20bb. Bigger than his normal 3 bet size, but probably targeting the opener's loose opening range.

HERO in HJ looks down at and contemplates his options with the BB still to act.

Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

Based on recent strategy threads and how they've turned out for the heroes, I would just jam.

But really, a large 4 bet to 50 or 60 BB's sounds about right.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I like a reraise to about 80 BB here, hoping to either get someone to shove or set up a shove on the flop.

Jamming may not actually be so bad, but it depends on Hero's image, which we don't know.

This looks like a good setup for one of your opponents to make a mistake with a big pair.

 

[springbox]

Nothing to do but 4b 3~4x here I think, assuming they're loose enough to call that large. Unless you really think there's a good chance someone will call a jam, but that pretty much requires they have KK or think you're making wild plays.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I flat the 20bb and invite someone to try to squeeze. Then shove on them.

 

[springbox]

I flat the 20bb and invite someone to try to squeeze. Then shove on them.

On the other hand, BB and UTG+2 could also flat, and then you've taken AA to a flop 4-ways...

 

[DirtyTIVA]

On the other hand, BB and UTG+2 could also flat, and then you've taken AA to a flop 4-ways...

Sure that’s the risk but depends on the flop against these players being described as very loose with post flop play. The right flop can win you a huge pot. The wrong flop you can get away from mathematically. In the long run I favor variance in play so players can’t necessarily put you on a hand. It’s just a personal choice for sure. A stiff 4 bet here out of the SB feels like AA KK. Yeah you’d pick up 25bb uncontested hopefully but there’s significantly more value to be potentially gained by disguising the strength of your hand. Just personal opinion of course.

 

[KHarp1]

With loose and maniacal in the pot, I'm coming back with a 50bb raise, if I'm not shoving. I'll take a caller and a race, but, with a 20bb raise out there I'm coming strong and hoping to isolate.

 

[Frogzilla]

Under 3x (50bb - 55bb) feels like a good 4 bet size IP

 

[grebe]

Online App game.

UTG+2 is a loose splashy player. Earlier in the session he raises in MP and called a 3 bet from the solid reg who was in position and stacked the refs on for 120bb.

LJ is a solid reg. Tight aggressive. Doesn't get out of line too often, but it's capable of raising and sometimes 3 betting with non-premiuns.

BB is gambly loose player. Rarely folds pre. Has cold called many 3 bets. Will sometimes go nuts pre with garbage. Post flop, if given any rope, will start blasting away.

260bb effective

UTG+2 opens to 5bb, bigger than normal for him.
LJ 3 bets to 20bb. Bigger than his normal 3 bet size, but probably targeting the opener's loose opening range.

HERO in HJ looks down at and contemplates his options with the BB still to act.

Hero?

We have two interested parties already. We want one of those two to at least call, but not both or others. Raise to 60 bb's. If everybody folds, that's fine too. If we think we can raise bigger and get a call, I would do that.

It's ok to not be balanced here if we have players that will pay us off even when we always have it. Also, a good chance we are about to cooler someone.

(Just calling here though is asking for multi way action, which increases the odds that we are the one getting coolered)

 

[Legend5555]

Part 2

Online App game.

UTG+2 is a loose splashy player. Earlier in the session he raises in MP and called a 3 bet from the solid reg who was in position and stacked the reg's on for 120bb.

LJ is a solid reg. Tight aggressive. Doesn't get out of line too often, but it's capable of raising and sometimes 3 betting with non-premiuns.

BB is gambly loose player. Rarely folds pre. Has cold called many 3 bets. Will sometimes go nuts pre with garbage. Post flop, if given any rope, will start blasting away.

260bb effective

UTG+2 opens to 5bb, bigger than normal for him.
LJ 3 bets to 20bb. Bigger than his normal 3 bet size, but probably targeting the opener's loose opening range.

HERO in HJ looks down at and contemplates his options with the BB still to act.

HERO decides to go for the unorthodox play of call hoping to induce BB or UTG+2 to go crazy.

BB calls. UTG+2 folds. 3 ways to flop.

Pot: 66bb
Flop:

BB checks. LJ thinks for a bit and checks.

HERO?

 

[JMC9389]

Lead out for 30 BB's. Board is wet and hero is likely still best but you can semi bluff on future streets with the ace of the spades in case a third one comes in.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Go back to preflop and 4-bet it like I told you.

Spoiler: As played

Bet 40 BB on the flop.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Agree with half pot bet. Can’t let them draw for free. I misread the initial post and thought Hero was SB. If tough reg raises its a call. If maniac raises, then shove.

 

[grebe]

Part 2

Online App game.

UTG+2 is a loose splashy player. Earlier in the session he raises in MP and called a 3 bet from the solid reg who was in position and stacked the reg's on for 120bb.

LJ is a solid reg. Tight aggressive. Doesn't get out of line too often, but it's capable of raising and sometimes 3 betting with non-premiuns.

BB is gambly loose player. Rarely folds pre. Has cold called many 3 bets. Will sometimes go nuts pre with garbage. Post flop, if given any rope, will start blasting away.

260bb effective

UTG+2 opens to 5bb, bigger than normal for him.
LJ 3 bets to 20bb. Bigger than his normal 3 bet size, but probably targeting the opener's loose opening range.

HERO in HJ looks down at and contemplates his options with the BB still to act.

HERO decides to go for the unorthodox play of call hoping to induce BB or UTG+2 to go crazy.

BB calls. UTG+2 folds. 3 ways to flop.

Pot: 66bb
Flop:

BB checks. LJ thinks for a bit and checks.

HERO?

Target AK, KQ and flush draws. Bet 40 bb's. Throw up if we get raised. Listen to my voice in your head saying "I told you so".

 

[Legend5555]

Part 3

Online App game.

UTG+2 is a loose splashy player. Earlier in the session he raises in MP and called a 3 bet from the solid reg who was in position and stacked the reg's on for 120bb.

LJ is a solid reg. Tight aggressive. Doesn't get out of line too often, but it's capable of raising and sometimes 3 betting with non-premiuns.

BB is gambly loose player. Rarely folds pre. Has cold called many 3 bets. Will sometimes go nuts pre with garbage. Post flop, if given any rope, will start blasting away.

260bb effective

UTG+2 opens to 5bb, bigger than normal for him.
LJ 3 bets to 20bb. Bigger than his normal 3 bet size, but probably targeting the opener's loose opening range.

HERO in HJ looks down at and contemplates his options with the BB still to act.

HERO decides to go for the unorthodox play of call hoping to induce BB or UTG+2 to go crazy.

BB calls. UTG+2 folds. 3 ways to flop.

Pot: 66bb
Flop:

BB checks. LJ thinks for a bit and checks.

Hero bets 45bb.
BB folds.
LJ goes into time bank, then jams for 240bb (1.25x pot).

HERO?!?

 

[ChipFinderSK]

Hate the flat pre-flop…As played, I’m calling and expecting to be up against Kx of spades or a combo draw (with a small chance of seeing K 10).

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I would call here. Hero has underrepped their hand. V could have AK/KQ and is way behind. V’s bet sizing doesn’t feel like a set but who knows. Pair and draw or 2 pair are most likely. QQ or JJ with one spade could play like this too. Hero’s underrepped AA are ahead of many possible combinations and has reasonable outs against others. Set is worst case scenario.

 

[JMC9389]

Snap call. If hero is up against a set, it happens. Hero has removal to Spade draws and some straight draws. Thinking hero is up against a big combo draw like Kx of spades, J9 spades, Q9 spades, etc.

This is why I hate the flat preflop. Another raise would have folded out some of those hands that can crack aces on this board.

 

[Legend5555]

What combo draw type hands does the solid reg have that 3 bet the action player opener?

 

[JMC9389]

What combo draw type hands does the solid reg have that 3 bet the action player opener?

KJ spades, K9 spades, Q9 spades, J9 spades are all very possible here based on your read of the player in the OP.

This kinda feels like a flopped set though...

 

[Zajac]

There so many draws…flush QJ/J9 etc…if you aren’t calling this flop…then you can’t flat pre

 

[Legend5555]

Again, do we really think the solid reg is 3 betting from MP with J9s, K9s? Maybe KJs, but against a guy who already and calls wide and another guy in the blinds that is liable to call wide as well, it seems a suspect 3 bet to me.

 

[Jimulacrum]

If LJ is in fact a solid TAG type of player, the 3-bet likely represents at least a pair or AK. Maybe a hand like AQs or AJs, since we've noted he will sometimes play back at the LAG, though we don't have a sense of how wide.

Coming into this flop, that leaves us with a pretty short list of hands he'd want to check-raise shove with: KK (3 ways), TT (3), 88 (3), AK (6), (1), and (1). A lot of these other hands I see people suggesting, like , I just don't see a TAG getting overly invested with.

From this list, we have 9 hands that have AA crushed, 6 hands that are crushed by AA about equally as AA is crushed by a set, and 2 strong draws that are modest dogs against AA.

Looking like a fold, unless we have some miraculous line on Villain that might rule out some of these hands (e.g., if we were to know that he always slowplays flopped sets, AA is the boss here). We'll end up folding to AK and combo draws sometimes, but more often we'll avoid getting all-in with only 2 outs to come back. Given the large bet size relative to the pot, we're not getting good odds at all, only about 1.8 : 1, and I just don't think that's good enough to continue against a tight player with a tight opening range, looking to put all his money in the pot on this board.

 

[TheOffalo]

Coming into this flop, that leaves us with a pretty short list of hands he'd want to check-raise shove with: KK (3 ways), TT (3), 88 (3), AK (6), (1), and (1). A lot of these other hands I see people suggesting, like , I just don't see a TAG getting overly invested with.

From this list, we have 9 hands that have AA crushed, 6 hands that are crushed by AA about equally as AA is crushed by a set, and 2 strong draws that are modest dogs against AA.

AQs and AJs can be eliminated, since the OP is holding , so he still has a BDFD, and even if only one more spade comes up on the board, he could rep the nut flush. (Though since the other player is all in, there'd be no more repping/betting if OP calls.)

 

[Zajac]

LJ is a solid reg. Tight aggressive. Doesn't get out of line too often, but it's capable of raising and sometimes 3 betting with non-premiuns.

I guess it depends how often he 3 bets with non-premiums.......if you put him on having a really good hand because he is a TAG.....flatting pre makes even less sense then.....make him pay while you have his premium hand dominated

 

[Jimulacrum]

AQs and AJs can be eliminated, since the OP is holding , so he still has a BDFD, and even if only one more spade comes up on the board, he could rep the nut flush. (Though since the other player is all in, there'd be no more repping/betting if OP calls.)

Oh, durf, I might have wanted to pay attention to that.

Makes my case even stronger, then. Unlikely Villain is semi-bluffing a draw. More likely it's down to AK (with no FD) and sets.

And AA is certainly possible, of course, but doesn't factor in very much since there's just 1 combination.

 

[Eriks]

I really dislike the pre-flop flat. Obv I don’t know this game but even though villains are splashy with opens and 3-bets, it’s generally too optimistic to hope that someone will be going crazy with a 4-bet over all that action (unless it’s a cooler).

As played, I don’t know as I don’t see myself ending up in that spot. We’re under repped, yes, but I’m still temped to fold now. Especially since we block AK/AQ/AJ of spades

 

[warma]

KJ spades, K9 spades, Q9 spades, J9 spades are all very possible here based on your read of the player in the OP.

This kinda feels like a flopped set though...

I go with the flush draw, and I suspect the hesitation is due to a live (to the villain) . Let’s hope it isn’t a set of 10s or 8s…

 

[Frogzilla]

Feels like a spot to randomize. Hard to be balanced in weird lines like this

60/40 based on gut (gut for me here is call)

Just rolled a 9 so I fold