Lodge live stream security (2 Viewers)

Frogzilla

Frogzilla

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Uh something doesn’t smell right.

Clip 1: Doug Polk discussing his streams setup on March 3, 2024. 1:17ish in the below. Quote: “with our setup specifically, there are no hole cards anywhere for anyone. There isn’t a way for cards to be relayed, it’s just not possible.” He’s made this claim multiple times, at least three, I don’t feel like tracking them down right now, but my memory is excellent.


Ok, awesome. Everything populated post. TCH Dallas when I’ve commentated was half live/half post, the production team in a separate room was live, but commentator I was on delay. Everything I saw happened 15 minutes ago. Sounds like they have an even more secure setup where the production team doesn’t have hole cards. Awesome.

Now enter clip 2 from yesterday March 16th, 2024. Time stamp 4:40. Doug Polk is commentating. In this hand, airball is in a massive 15 minute tank. Doug Polk says he is going to leave the booth to go tell them to force a clock so the delay doesn’t catch up. What?!?! Does that not mean he is commentating live? And he has hole card information?! All of them do?! What happened to the info from two weeks ago? Fishy fishy fishy

 
buzzmonkey said:
I suppose it's possible someone alerted him?
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I can also imagine he knows how long the delay is and had a pretty good idea how long the tank had been going on.

A nearly 20 minute tank is borderline unacceptable. Sure, it's for a $125k, but I can't imagine you are going to learn anything about the hand or where you stand in it after that long. I've never been in that situation, but when we see players with similarly big decisions in a game with a clock and time banks, I can't think of a time I have seen more than 4 or 5 minutes taken to make a legitimately big decision.

If/when I play in a WSOP event, I'm going to have a shirt made that says "I will call the clock on you" and will happily do so to any chronic tanker at my table. It makes the spectator aspect of the game unwatchable and the participant part of the game downright painful.
 
buzzmonkey said:
I suppose it's possible someone alerted him?
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navels said:
Occam's razor
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grandmeme said:
I think commentators could see the live table outside their booth. Doug probably watched him stand around in a hand for a while.
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the clip is a marathon but perhaps here illustrates the booth dialogue best. Polk has been commentating the entire hand. Polk at 4:53 below says “I think we are getting close to our delay, so I’m going to go make sure that doesn’t happen, ill be back in a bit.”

 
And just to add, I usually enjoy Polk’s content. I was 100% expecting him to come back on 10 seconds later and sheepishly say “forgot we are on delay too, this all happened 30 minutes ago.” But no, sure as shit, he walks into the room. Hopefully this gets cleared up, by all appearances his stream doesn’t work as he assured. Not a good look for someone with these results:

https://highrollpoker.com/tracker/locations/3
 
Frogzilla said:
And just to add, I usually enjoy Polk’s content. I was 100% expecting him to come back on 10 seconds later and sheepishly say “forgot we are on delay too, this all happened 30 minutes ago.” But no, sure as shit, he walks into the room. Hopefully this gets cleared up, by all appearances his stream doesn’t work as he assured. Not a good look for someone with these results:

https://highrollpoker.com/tracker/locations/3
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Look like you are on to something!
 
Haven't seen the recently stream but it could be a case that the commentators can only see the card when its flopped over (on a delay?)

Some production software is doing the % / Pot odds on a delay that the viewers can see but the commentators can not?
 
Tonystark137 said:
Haven't seen the recently stream but it could be a case that the commentators can only see the card when its flopped over (on a delay?)

Some production software is doing the % / Pot odds on a delay that the viewers can see but the commentators can not?
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no, at the beginning of the hand 4:38:35 he explicitly calls out hole cards. Noting these here in case the room decides to take down that stream. The clips above start at the correct spot and YouTube has a 1.5x or 2x feature which helps save time if you get a chance to view. I have a hunch viewing that clip may not be an option later
 
Tonystark137 said:
Haven't seen the recently stream but it could be a case that the commentators can only see the card when its flopped over (on a delay?)

Some production software is doing the % / Pot odds on a delay that the viewers can see but the commentators can not?
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Eh, commentators usually speak on what people have while commentating though. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point?

That would mean commentators have no idea what people have. Honestly think a lot more of them would look stupid if that was the case lol, hand reading would be very tough in most of these games.

Edit: @Frogzilla beat me to it.
 
Seems that all livestreamed games will eventually succumb to information leaks, which can lead to even more nefarious schemes once the weakness has been identified. Not sure what the players themselves actually gain from being on a game that's broadcast, aside from own vanity / ego-stroking.
 
Frogzilla said:
And just to add, I usually enjoy Polk’s content. I was 100% expecting him to come back on 10 seconds later and sheepishly say “forgot we are on delay too, this all happened 30 minutes ago.” But no, sure as shit, he walks into the room. Hopefully this gets cleared up, by all appearances his stream doesn’t work as he assured. Not a good look for someone with these results:

https://highrollpoker.com/tracker/locations/3
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Anyone else mention anything else on his twitter/X or the stream chat?
 
doublebooyah85 said:
Anyone else mention anything else on his twitter/X or the stream chat?
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Surprisingly, no, not that I saw. I don’t see any comments referencing “hey I thought commentators were in delay” on the youtube, on the clip from lodge Twitter, or on the reddit post from the hand. Perhaps everyone got a little caught up in the excitement of the hand and the egregiousness of a 21 minute tank. I’m very interested in the explanation so I engaged Polk directly on 2+2. He commented quickly at first then went silent for now. Of course, he might be busy. There is all kinds of wild allegations in that thread, hopefully mine don’t get lost in the shuffle.

Oh, here’s the lodge Twitter post. The question isn’t “should”, it’s “how can”

IMG_0515.jpeg
 
There was a post on two plus two via an apparent former dealer alleging something similar about high stakes streams being rigged.

Unless there's compelling evidence of the contrary, I'm assuming that all streamed games are played with Monopoly money and aren't real, and are being done just for ratings.

Don't get me started on the Tony G vs. Airball hand during the million dollar buy in game last year.

Tony had aces, Airball cold calls with nonsuited 10/9. Flop is safe but gives Airball the open ended straight. Turn gives Airball the nuts. Airball leads out, Tony snuffs it out and folds and walks away from the table in disgust. It's like he knew he was being set up with a cold deck. Bet you the river would have been clean as can be too.
 
Mhmm something doesn't sound right either.

If the commentators are on a delay (say 30mins) and the production/stream is on a 15 min delay. Then Doug strongly misrepresented their security. It isn't impossible for the cards to be relayed, just improbably barring a massive min tank.

So it would be possible to relay hole cards. Just have to tank for X minutes. Then the Lodge team could in theory pass the information to the players.
 
Tonystark137 said:
Mhmm something doesn't sound right either.

If the commentators are on a delay (say 30mins) and the production/stream is on a 15 min delay. Then Doug strongly misrepresented their security. It isn't impossible for the cards to be relayed, just improbably barring a massive min tank.

So it would be possible to relay hole cards. Just have to tank for X minutes. Then the Lodge team could in theory pass the information to the players.
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Has this theory, the production and the broadcast being on different delays, been stated anywhere from the Lodge team? or are you hypothesizing. If so yes I agree it’s very deceptive. From the clip above you can hear Doug at 4:53:21 and you see him at 4:57:14 so the maximum production delay, if they were doing something like that, is 3 to 3 1/2 minutes. It wouldn’t be 15.
 
Frogzilla said:
Has this theory, the production and the broadcast being on different delays, been stated anywhere from the Lodge team? or are you hypothesizing. If so yes I agree it’s very deceptive. From the clip above you can hear Doug at 4:53:21 and you see him at 4:57:14 so the maximum production delay, if they were doing something like that, is 3 to 3 1/2 minutes. It wouldn’t be 15.
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Just hypothesizing.
 
Tonystark137 said:
Just hypothesizing.
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Just skimmed through the hand on the video.

Timeline as I track it:

Doug is welcomed back into the booth at 4:37 video time.
4:38 Video Time hand starts (Comment made about a 42 open from Airball)
4:53 Video Time Doug "You know, I think we might be getting close to our delay, I'm going to make sure that does not happen, I'll be back in a bit."
4:57 Video Time Doug is seen entering the room: " So we are getting dangerously close to being caught up to live, so I'm not trying to pressure. At some point the entire world will know what everyone has in this hand so we have to make a decision here in the next two ish minutes."


Best case situation there is a X (My guess is 5 or 10) minute delay from real time to commentator. Commentator makes their comment with hole cards. There is a X minute delay from then to stream. (Say 20; bring the total stream delay to 30minutes)

So Doug did have the whole card information when he entered the room. So it would be possible to relay hole cards. Just have to tank for X minutes. Then the Lodge team could in theory pass the information to the players in the room.
 
Another confirmation this morning that their stream purports to not have hole cards visible to backend team. Unless we are missing something, at best highly misleading, at worst straight up lie. Not a good look for something that depends on trust and transparency.

IMG_0514.jpeg
 
Tonystark137 said:
Just skimmed through the hand on the video.

Timeline as I track it:

Doug is welcomed back into the booth at 4:37 video time.
4:38 Video Time hand starts (Comment made about a 42 open from Airball)
4:53 Video Time Doug "You know, I think we might be getting close to our delay, I'm going to make sure that does not happen, I'll be back in a bit."
4:57 Video Time Doug is seen entering the room: " So we are getting dangerously close to being caught up to live, so I'm not trying to pressure. At some point the entire world will know what everyone has in this hand so we have to make a decision here in the next two ish minutes."


Best case situation there is a X (My guess is 5 or 10) minute delay from real time to commentator. Commentator makes their comment with hole cards. There is a X minute delay from then to stream. (Say 20; bring the total stream delay to 30minutes)

So Doug did have the whole card information when he entered the room. So it would be possible to relay hole cards. Just have to tank for X minutes. Then the Lodge team could in theory pass the information to the players in the room.
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Even the fact that Doug was the one to walk in the room is uncomfortable. If I was Doug, I would hope there was someone else who didn't have whole card info that could be the one walking in and speaking directly to players. I don't think Doug was cheating in this situation, but that's just another thing that could go wrong.

I don't want anyone that's seen my cards speaking during a tank or a decision. Not wearing my tinfoil hat yet, but imagine if someone from the production booth walked into the Hustler stream during the Robbi-Garrett nonsense? They would be slowing down their every word and intonation. "Look at the way he gestures! Watch his left eyebrow when he says 'stream'!"
 
should be interesting to see if solve for why picks up on this at all in their discussion of the tank today
 
Frogzilla said:
Another confirmation this morning that their stream purports to not have hole cards visible to backend team. Unless we are missing something, at best highly misleading, at worst straight up lie. Not a good look for something that depends on trust and transparency.
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Wait what is leading you to conclude that the production team (aka backend) has hole card access?

Tonystark137 said:
"With our set specifically, there are no hole cards anywhere for anyone" ...huh...? how do the commentator comment then.
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Fair to say he meant "in realtime"
 
NotRealNameNoSir said:
Even the fact that Doug was the one to walk in the room is uncomfortable. If I was Doug, I would hope there was someone else who didn't have whole card info that could be the one walking in and speaking directly to players. I don't think Doug was cheating in this situation, but that's just another thing that could go wrong.

I don't want anyone that's seen my cards speaking during a tank or a decision. Not wearing my tinfoil hat yet, but imagine if someone from the production booth walked into the Hustler stream during the Robbi-Garrett nonsense? They would be slowing down their every word and intonation. "Look at the way he gestures! Watch his left eyebrow when he says 'stream'!"
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I agree I felt that Doug should have talked to the Floor and got them to force a 60sec Clock for Stream integrity
 

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