Limit vs No Limit

BonScot

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Trying to learn how to play limit online just now .25/.50 game.
I find that I’m chasing a lot more than I normally would. Also raises get called nearly every time except on the river where other players are more likely to fold.
I’ve been playing for a couple of days and pretty much break even so doing something wrong.
My PokerTracker data says that I’m too aggressive raising preflop so I’m trying to calm it down. Also my continuation bets on the turn are off the chart aggressive apparently :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
What would you guys say was the biggest difference in strategy?
 
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Saoliver

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Read Jennifer Harman’s chapter on limit in Super System 2.

Play super tight, but super aggressive.

Expect bad beats.

Expect 4 chasers in every pot.

Don’t bluff, except for the occasional miss on the river against a tight opponent.

Always bet your strong hands. There is no point in trying to disguise strength unless you know an opponent will bet to build a pot for you.

Most of your moves in NL won’t work in limit. But other moves will.

I prefer split-pot games for limit...but you already know that.

That’s my quick advice at 3am after much Bourbon. Good luck.
 

Poker Zombie

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I find the biggest difference is playing higher stakes. .25/.50 Limit is like playing .05/.10 NL. You just can't push many people off a draw if there is no sting.

Unfortunately, that is why I have a hard time getting my limit set in play. With stakes my friends are willing to play, every hand is a flip to the river. For stakes that make a call something to consider, the buy-in needs to be 5x greater.
 

Saoliver

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Adding a bit more...

Don’t come into a pot in early position with less than pocket 9s. And expect a raise or more behind you. From mid position, play a little looser. From late position, even more so, but still tight. Most people see way too many flops in limit.

You are going to be kicking yourself a lot for folding when the flop hits you well, but that’s just how it is in limit. It will save you in the long run.
 

BonScot

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Read Jennifer Harman’s chapter on limit in Super System 2.

Play super tight, but super aggressive.

Expect bad beats.

Expect 4 chasers in every pot.

Don’t bluff, except for the occasional miss on the river against a tight opponent.

Always bet your strong hands. There is no point in trying to disguise strength unless you know an opponent will bet to build a pot for you.

Most of your moves in NL won’t work in limit. But other moves will.

I prefer split-pot games for limit...but you already know that.

That’s my quick advice at 3am after much Bourbon. Good luck.
I’ve leant my super system book to my mate so it’s in quarantine now :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

I’m trying to tighten up my starting hands. Playing 6 handed so it’s still a bit loose. Like you say it’s very hard to push guys off a hand until you get to the river.
 

BonScot

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I find the biggest difference is playing higher stakes. .25/.50 Limit is like playing .05/.10 NL. You just can't push many people off a draw if there is no sting.

Unfortunately, that is why I have a hard time getting my limit set in play. With stakes my friends are willing to play, every hand is a flip to the river. For stakes that make a call something to consider, the buy-in needs to be 5x greater.
My group are the same so I’m going to play £1/£2 next time and see if that changes anything.
 

grebe

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Ed Miller's low stakes hold em book is a great read for this. His advice basically it's play very tight early, but start playing more prospect hands later in position. If you are drawing, try to be drawing to the nuts. Manipulate the pots to give you great odds.



Also realize the rake will chew you up here at low stakes. Break even is beating most the field.
 

BonScot

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Ed Miller's low stakes hold em book is a great read for this. His advice basically it's play very tight early, but start playing more prospect hands later in position. If you are drawing, try to be drawing to the nuts. Manipulate the pots to give you great odds.



Also realize the rake will chew you up here at low stakes. Break even is beating most the field.
I played for 3 hours this morning and made $5. Hardly seems worth it :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 

Moxie Mike

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All the above is great advice. I might add a few things:

You'll never beat the rake at stakes lower than $3/$6. Even at those stakes the best case scenario is basically a break even proposition.

An error that costs you an extra big-bet is an hour of your time lost.

Aggression can mask a lot of deficiencies in NL - but not in a limit game. Excessive aggression will be punished in the long run.

Limit holdem can in many ways be boiled down to a card catching contest.

Pot odds are extremely important... as is understanding your equity. For example, many time river bets will lay pot odds of 10-1 or greater - meaning you only need ~10% equity to make calling profitable.

A bet saved is a bet earned, but don't go around looking to make hero-folds.

The profit is in pushing the small edges. Most hands play themselves - but understanding when to value-bet and when the situation calls for getting to showdown as cheaply as possible are critical.

Speculative hands preflop go way down in value in limit vs. NL. Small pocket pairs and suited connectors are still playable when you can get in cheaply against many opponents who will pay you off. But set mining against a single opponent will never be profitable.
 

BonScot

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All the above is great advice. I might add a few things:

You'll never beat the rake at stakes lower than $3/$6. Even at those stakes the best case scenario is basically a break even proposition.

An error that costs you an extra big-bet is an hour of your time lost.

Aggression can mask a lot of deficiencies in NL - but not in a limit game. Excessive aggression will be punished in the long run.

Limit holdem can in many ways be boiled down to a card catching contest.

Pot odds are extremely important... as is understanding your equity. For example, many time river bets will lay pot odds of 10-1 or greater - meaning you only need ~10% equity to make calling profitable.

A bet saved is a bet earned, but don't go around looking to make hero-folds.

The profit is in pushing the small edges. Most hands play themselves - but understanding when to value-bet and when the situation calls for getting to showdown as cheaply as possible are critical.

Speculative hands preflop go way down in value in limit vs. NL. Small pocket pairs and suited connectors are still playable when you can get in cheaply against many opponents who will pay you off. But set mining against a single opponent will never be profitable.
I’m finding that. Almost impossible to get guys to fold as they chase all the way to the river. Just took two bad beats in a row and can’t believe the hands that were chased to the river.
 
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BonScot

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Limit is math, getting odds to chase, it's nearly impossible to bluff, and you'll never get someone to lay down a hand. That about sums it up.
I’m finding that nobody folds and just about every hand goes to showdown. It’s strange after playing NL for so long. The amount of chasing that goes on is crazy. So many guys going all the way to the river and calling any raise to try and catch a flush or a straight. Mental.
 

BonScot

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Why are you asking about limit. I thought Scottish people had no limits and always turn it up to 11.

What you gonna ask about next? Mid strength beer?
I’m actually getting angry with limit. According to PokerTracker 3 of the guys at my table have played 80% of hands.
 

BonScot

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Yeah, but it makes sense. With limit-betting, it's very often CORRECT to chase mathematically.
I need to learn not to bluff at all playing this. Guys will go to the river with a high card. Some guy stayed all the way to the river with 73s to catch a flush. Mental
 
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surfik

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I would say that you playing lower stakes than live or just bored because there is no human interaction at the table. If the letter is possible play more than one table.. You will not be bored.
 

grebe

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$5 put into pot and 888 poker took 88c rake. That’s pretty damn high.
You are paying to learn the game. Keep your mind open and figure out how and why to win at limit. Understand you are crushed by the rake, and that live players are easier to beat. Walk away losing a few bucks but gaining knowledge.

Mind open means figuring if they had odds to draw to the river, it did they put money in bad. Did you play well or get lucky when your hand Binks.
 

BonScot

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You are paying to learn the game. Keep your mind open and figure out how and why to win at limit. Understand you are crushed by the rake, and that live players are easier to beat. Walk away losing a few bucks but gaining knowledge.

Mind open means figuring if they had odds to draw to the river, it did they put money in bad. Did you play well or get lucky when your hand Binks.
You’re right about the rake. It’s pretty big. I’m not a massive online player so playing with a rake is something I’m not used to. The rake on 888 is 15% of the pot so really big.
I’ve tightened up my starting hands and went super aggressive when I had something. That seemed to work. Started going on a winning run and the other players left the table :LOL: :laugh:
 

BonScot

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I would say that you playing lower stakes than live or just bored because there is no human interaction at the table. If the letter is possible play more than one table.. You will not be bored.
Maybe you’re right. Need to play higher stakes.
 

upNdown

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Also of note, some games play GREAT in limit. IMO, holdem ain't one of them.

7 stud, Omaha, and any circus game. That's what limit is for.
This is what I was going to say. I love playing those games limit And I love NLHE. But I can't stand limit hold em. Partially because I haven't quite figured it out, but I think I understand it "enough" and it just mostly sucks.
 

BonScot

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This is what I was going to say. I love playing those games limit And I love NLHE. But I can't stand limit hold em. Partially because I haven't quite figured it out, but I think I understand it "enough" and it just mostly sucks.
I’m reaching that conclusion myself. Just full of flush chasing weasels :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
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