Leaving Tourney Early

Cdgiguob

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We have had a couple of instances in our home tournaments where a player has had to leave early. What do you do with his chips? Are they taken off the table, blinded out?
 

sheikh617

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I think the problem with blinding out is that the person with position on the dead seat can steal blinds easier by raising people out and it could matter once the blinds get bigger.
 

justsomedude

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So what would happen if said person had 3/4 of the chips in play?

That's just a dick move.

In a single-table 9 player tournament, that means there's probably only 2 or 3 players left in the game, including villain.
In a two-table 18 player tournament, that means there's probably only 3 or 4 players left in the game, including villain.

If one of my players runs that deep and bails out on the game: 1) he's a complete asshole, and 2) he's never getting invited back.

If he leaves in a bubble or paid position, which it sounds like you're suggesting, then I'd say he forfeits all winnings, and I'd chop the pot with the remaining players and end the tournament.

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Ethan

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I would take those beautiful chips to where they belong... in a cash game! ;)

That’s a weird one. I was opposed to the forfeits money but if you’re not around to claim your prize then sorry buddy - you lose. If it was an emergency the winner(s) can pool a drawing for a donation if warranted. Read a few days a go someone left a home game early because his wife went into labor early?
 

grantc54

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I’m assuming something came up (emergency) not that it was just getting late.
Yes, this would have to be the case for me. Not leaving just because they are tired. That said, I dont think I'd pull the stack, but there wouldn't be a reinvite.
 

justsomedude

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I’m assuming something came up (emergency) not that it was just getting late.

Ah... in that case I think a legitimate emergency warrants the "extenuating circumstances" discussion.

I guess I'd leave it up to the remaining players to decide what to do. But at the stage of a tournament with the monster stack bailing, you may just be forced into chopping it up between villain and the other remaining players, and calling it a night.
 

BGinGA

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We handle emergency departures as follows:
  • Empty seat stack remains on the table
  • Empty seat is not dealt cards
  • Appropriate blind amounts are taken from the empty seat stack when button passes (chips removed from play)
  • Empty seat is awarded prize $$ and/or points based on finishing position
  • Any money chop agreement involving the absent player stack must be based on ICM
It's the fairest way to handle it -- no remaining players gain any advantage, and the vacant seat player is not penalized (and gains no advantage).

It's no different than if the absent player folded every hand, except that no remaining players gain an unfair advantage based on their seating position relative to the absent player.
 

Forty4

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@BGinGA You don’t deal the player who is going to essentially fold every hand cards? That makes a big impact on the true run of the cards, if I’m not mistaken you don’t subscribe to “random is random”
 

BGinGA

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Same as in a cash game where a player is absent -- no cards are dealt to the empty seat.

You're trying to create a problem where none exists.
 

WedgeRock

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Did player leave early with less than 24 hours notice? :wow:

Appropriate blind amounts are taken from the empty seat stack when button passes (chips removed from play)

This is an elegant solution to avoid players to the left gaining an advantage. Do you do the same for later arriving players? I like it.

FWIW, a stack at an empty seat can earn points in our league, but cannot earn any prize money.
 

Legend5555

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@BGinGA You don’t deal the player who is going to essentially fold every hand cards? That makes a big impact on the true run of the cards, if I’m not mistaken you don’t subscribe to “random is random”
Really with the "true run?"
picardfacepalm.gif


This is a spot where @BGinGA and I are in rare agreement. Dealing the stack in creates a lot of issues, especially when that stack is in the blinds. A good player to the right of that stack can reap the benefits by essentially being the button twice per round.
 

BGinGA

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This is an elegant solution to avoid players to the left gaining an advantage. Do you do the same for later arriving players? I like it.
Yes, stacks for late arrivals are treated the same way.
 

WedgeRock

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This is a spot where @BGinGA and I are in rare agreement. Dealing the stack in creates a lot of issues, especially when that stack is in the blinds. A good player to the right of that stack can reap the benefits by essentially being the button twice per round.

Dealing cards to an absent stack and blinding in an absent stack are two distinct issues, IMO.

I think @Forty4's point is that if you skip the absent player, you change the after the first card that would've gone to that player. For someone who doesn't subscribe to the "random is random" theory, that makes a difference.
 

Legend5555

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Dealing cards to an absent stack and blinding in an absent stack are two distinct issues, IMO.

I think @Forty4's point is that if you skip the absent player, you change the after the first card that would've gone to that player. For someone who doesn't subscribe to the "random is random" theory, that makes a difference.
Sigh....

I'm not going down this rabbit hole again.
 

Forty4

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I’m honestly shocked by your view on this one @BGinGA. Only because you seem to follow most tournament rules to the letter. I disagree that it’s the same as a cash game because of the tournament clock and levels. Cash game there is no change in levels and time is irrelevant. However only to illustrate the point what happens when someone goes to the bathroom? Not talking about a quick pee the person got some bad BBQ and has mild food poisoning. Do you not deal him because he is not at the table when the cards are pitched (like you would in a cash game)?

I’m also not trying to be antagonist just illustrating my point and using my philosophy background. :)
 

Forty4

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Sigh....

I'm not going down this rabbit hole again.
I wouldn’t call it a rabbit hole. It’s a healthy discussion. At the end of the day you can run your game however you please and that’s fine, it’s your choice. I am more curious as to how and where the line gets drawn?
 

Forty4

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I was looking for a "Come to the Dark Side" gif or video to respond with...

But LOL at this clip... he forgot he was lip syncing at 0:38...

It would be more of the “there’s a disturbance in the force” although I’m sure in some movie there is a line about the natural order of things being effected (maybe Jurassic Park)
 

Forty4

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Also back to this point. @Cdgiguob if it is that the players are leaving because the tournament is running too long adjust the levels or starting stack.
 

DoubleEagle

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We handle emergency departures as follows:
  • Empty seat stack remains on the table
  • Empty seat is not dealt cards
  • Appropriate blind amounts are taken from the empty seat stack when button passes (chips removed from play)
  • Empty seat is awarded prize $$ and/or points based on finishing position
  • Any money chop agreement involving the absent player stack must be based on ICM
It's the fairest way to handle it -- no remaining players gain any advantage, and the vacant seat player is not penalized (and gains no advantage).

It's no different than if the absent player folded every hand, except that no remaining players gain an unfair advantage based on their seating position relative to the absent player.
No different than picking up the stack except the player could potentially cash. IMO, it's not worth the hassle leaving them in the game per your methodology. If they must leave, they are out.
 

BGinGA

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I wouldn’t call it a rabbit hole. It’s a healthy discussion. At the end of the day you can run your game however you please and that’s fine, it’s your choice. I am more curious as to how and where the line gets drawn?
Well, in the OP's scenario, there are essentially two basic choices:
  • remove the stack from play
  • leave the stack and blind out the player
I don't think the first choice is fair to the player (pending circumstances), and I don't think the second choice is equally fair to the remaining players.

But allowing the stack to remain and blinding it off in such a fashion that the equity of the remaining players is not affected, I think is the most fair approach for all of the players.

Regarding the card order, if there are six players remaining, six hands are dealt. Same would be true if the absent player stack is removed.

You are certainly entitled to disagree, but again, I think you are attempting to create a problem where none really exists. You been taking lessons from @Josh Kifer? ;)
 

Josh Kifer

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Well, in the OP's scenario, there are essentially two basic choices:
  • remove the stack from play
  • leave the stack and blind out the player
I don't think the first choice is fair to the player (pending circumstances), and I don't think the second choice is equally fair to the remaining players.

But allowing the stack to remain and blinding it off in such a fashion that the equity of the remaining players is not affected, I think is the most fair approach for all of the players.

Regarding the card order, if there are six players remaining, six hands are dealt. Same would be true if the absent player stack is removed.

You are certainly entitled to disagree, but again, I think you are attempting to create a problem where none really exists. You been taking lessons from @Josh Kifer? ;)
I don't create issues @BGinGA , I'm a problem solver. Ban the player. Problem solved.....
 
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