Is Vegas dying? (17 Viewers)

[masayako]

Greetings,
Long-time lurker here who's been hitting the felt in Vegas 3-4 times a year for the past decade. Lately, I've been seeing all the doom-and-gloom headlines: "Vegas tourism slump," "visitor volume down 11% in June," "casinos laying off dealers," and even locals spots like Poker Palace shutting down for good back in September. Feels like the city's on life support sometimes—empty tables mid-week, resorts nickel-and-diming with resort fees and $25 "plate charges" for room service, and online apps eating into live action.

But is it really dying, or just evolving (again)? From what I'm seeing on recent trips:

• Visitor stats are ugly: Down ~8% YTD through September, with summer months hitting double-digit drops. LVCVA data shows occupied room nights off 6%, and Harry Reid Airport traffic is flat or down.
• Poker-specific pain: Only ~19 rooms left city-wide (PokerAtlas count), with closures like Poker Palace and Golden Gate ditching live tables entirely for ETGs/slots. Low-stakes games feel nitty, waits are longer off-peak, and promos aren't what they used to be.
• Greed factor: Strip mins creeping up, free parking gone at most spots, and that "premium experience" pricing is scaring off the mid-roll grinders. Rick Harrison from Pawn Stars called it out—sneaky fees are killing the vibe.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Prices for LV were already going up in the late 2010s, and that got a lot worse with the huge surge in visitors they had for a couple of years post-COVID.

The companies that own most of Vegas abandoned the old model of "give them a cheap stay and make up for it in gambling." Vegas has been buried under a mountain of hidden costs and price increases: $60 per night resort fees, $100 buffets, $30 cocktails, no more free parking, etc. It's become unaffordable for many, and unattractive to many more.

My last trip to LV was in 2021. I can afford to go if I want, but I just don't feel the desire. I can scratch all the same itches elsewhere for a lot less and get a comparable or sometimes better experience.

 

[justsomedude]

Took the family in May... stayed at the Mandalay Bay. Hadn't been in quite a few years and I have to admit, the town is not how I remember it. They get you for fees every which way. I was also shocked at how dead the gaming floor was on a weekend, but maybe the Mandalay is just an anomaly. Also, seeing the rise of all digital table games was really depressing. People sitting there tapping their fingers on digital tabletops... no social interaction... no camaraderie. Ugh.

As I'm sure you've seen in other articles/reports, food prices are outrageous. The first morning there I went down to the Starbucks to grab 2 coffees, a couple danish, and an OJ... the total was $50 (before tip). Margarita at the Mandalay pool? 30-bucks. And that's just for one. If you really want to have a stroke, look up the prices on buckets of beer.

Anyway, it was an eye-opening adventure for me. I can't say I plan to go back soon, unless there's reports of drastic changes. They're definitely trying to attract the higher rollers... the old days of "Come! stay cheap; we'll feed you free drinks and take your money at the gaming tables" are pretty much dead and buried.

PS: Not to be a total curmudgeon, Hussong's Cantina in Mandalay Bay was very fairly priced... got the family fed and some good drinks without breaking the bank. Highly recommend it. As for the food court at the Luxor... AVOID IT. Unless a $20 Nathan's hot dog is your thing.

PPS: Checking out Hoover Dam and walking the strip are still totally fun.

 

[BPTDirector]

During what Vegas veterans remember as the golden years, Vegas, and Nevada in general had an aura of exclusivity pertaining to gambling. It was THE place to go. Now you can go anywhere to gamble in a casino - and those same corporations have a hand in it. So now why travel to the desert when you can drive somewhere for an over night scratch to your itch. The biggest winners are the old guard who sold out when the bonanza began to wane. They need those fees to support the very excessive infrastructure they set up for themselves. Like a canal for gondolas in the desert. lol

 

[UniLover]

Went in April and August.

April was the least busy it's ever been for the last 20+ years.

Fees are creeping up yes but I enjoy it being less busy.

In fact I enjoyed how not busy it was, that's why I went again in August and am going again in December.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I used to lose 4-5 digits a year chasing tiers and comps so paying for overpriced a la cartes is far more preferable.

 

[TheYeti]

Caesar's and PH recently reopened their poker rooms, so that's at least an encouraging sign as far as poker in Vegas is concerned.

 

[Baxit]

Assuming Vegas is dying, what's the next Vegas, at least poker-wise?

 

[Goldfish]

Vegas is now competing with many new casinos across the country. I now have 4 casinos within an hour of my house, all with very good poker rooms. No need to jump on a plane anymore, except for the occasional group event.

 

[justsomedude]

Vegas is now competing with many new casinos across the country. I now have 4 casinos within an hour of my house, all with very good poker rooms. No need to jump on a plane anymore, except for the occasional group event.

That's why the city pushed so hard for pro sports team relocations/expansions... they knew their days as a gambling destination were numbered when it started becoming legalized in so many other locales.

 

[XBobdog]

I'm not sure it's dying, but I used to go to Vegas at least once a year. I haven't gone now in over a year. Had a trip planned last weekend and my buddy and i just decided to go to Cherokee instead.

For me, I think it is the decrease in room comps. For some reason, I could always justify Vegas because i'd get a room for $100/night avg. (which was mostly the resort fees and bump up for Sat night room.) Now I don't get those at the casinos I'm used to staying at. typically Aria...

It did just seem to kill the mood.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

they knew their days as a gambling destination were numbered when it started becoming legalized in so many other locales.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Vegas is still a premium experience with a lot going for it compared to most local casinos. Most of us don't mind paying a bit of a premium to get that. But there's a huge difference between paying a premium and getting milked dry.

Vegas is killing itself.

 

[Rakrul]

I think I've been to Vegas 4-5 times and it got increasingly more and more expensive from when I went there from ~'08 to ~'18 I think. Ain't no way I'm going there with post-Covid prices and fees.

Also read that visits from Canada was down ~30% YoY, mostly due to Trump's 51st state talks.

 

[Craig D]

Casinos are drowning in debt

A lot of them even sold the land casinos sit on, borrowed billions of dollars of low interest money that needs refinancing at a higher rate they can't service

The solution they have come up with is to up-charge (parking). make up fees (resort fees), increase house advantage in games (000 roulette, 6:5 Blackjack) reduce comps (less free drinks)

Casinos think abusing existing customers will encourage more play

I can play $0.01 - $250000.00 Roulette, and $1.00 - $10,000.00 Blackjack with live dealers online

I can also gamble locally

Flying to Vegas was fun, it is just not worth it any more

Las Vegas has nickel and dimed itself to death

Have Fun

 

[masayako]

Las Vegas has nickel and dimed itself to death

Have Fun

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Coyote]

Assuming Vegas is dying, what's the next Vegas, at least poker-wise?

Homes with good chips, chairs and tables. And good lighting. And a dedicated non-playing dealer, either a friend for just tips, or a professional paid by the hour.
Vetted players, friendly atmosphere, NO rake.
If above $1/2, though, you 'll need some armed private security, on the long run.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Vegas is still a premium experience with a lot going for it compared to most local casinos.

As a poker experience, Vegas has one advantage that your typical one-off casino can't duplicate: variety.

In Vegas, there's ALWAYS a game or tournament to jump into regardless of your budget or game preference? Wanna play HORSE on a Tuesday night? Head to The Orleans. Wanna play that boring-ass 2-card game? Go anywhere.

As a tourist destination, it still has it's unique features but it's running into the same issues Disney World presents. I don't mind resorts and parking fees to a degree - but when they're literally trying to squeeze every dime possible it's not just expensive, it's insulting. $15 for a draft beer on Fremont? $8 for a Gatorade in the gift shop? They're ruining the experience because the experience should be the most memorable part - not the cost.

When the cost leaves a bad taste in people's mouth long after the money is spent, that's a huge problem.

Sadly, they're going to have to feel the pain before they realize what drove people away in the first place. Someone will solve the problem and capture the pent up demand. Maybe the shot callers in Vegas will get their heads out of their asses before someone else offers a better experience.

Assuming Vegas is dying, what's the next Vegas, at least poker-wise?

Vegas will be the poker destination for the foreseeable future. There really isn't anywhere else that offers dozens of poker options at different properties all within walking distance of one another (relatively speaking). If the WSOP participation is any indicator of poker's health, the numbers are very strong.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Assuming Vegas is dying, what's the next Vegas, at least poker-wise?

Vegas will be the poker destination for the foreseeable future. There really isn't anywhere else that offers dozens of poker options at different properties all within walking distance of one another (relatively speaking). If the WSOP participation is any indicator of poker's health, the numbers are very strong.

Hard Rock Hollywood FTL Florida is pretty damn good

 

[Moxie Mike]

Hard Rock Hollywood FTL Florida is pretty damn good

I've been there 2 or 3 times. Not my favorite and I'm not a fan of how they run things.

A bunch of my local poker peeps heading down there for the Lucky Hearts in January. The schedule just dropped - I haven't decided if I'm going to bother with it or not.

 

[jamesjkim]

Hard Rock Hollywood FTL Florida is pretty damn good

I was just there last week and was surprised. The pits seemed pretty dead for a Friday afternoon but the poker room was bustling. There were probably 25+ tables going when I left around 4pm.

 

[DrStrange]

I am going to Vegas next week. Staying at the Bellagio. Leaving just before the F1 race crowd arrives.

Let's hope it isn't as bad as reported -=- DrStrange

 

[Gunnar]

Last time when I went to Vegas I was warned it was expensive but that warning was not enough. I was still shocked, 8$ for a Gatoraid is crazy.

I know Vegas is a luxury spot than charge me for the luxury don't charge me crazy prices for non luxury things. People want to be in Vegas to spend money on luxury things upsell me, sell me a Gatoraid that I can't have somewhere else in a glass with beautiful Ice and then Im more happy paying 8$.

But I also feel like even though Vegas has been leading the digital games that is the one that is going to hurt them the most. I would pay extra for a old school game room where there are no phone allowed no screens. Give me chips and bunch of people and drinks. The social aspect is what makes gambling run, everyone gather around the table to see some high roller go for it. Group of people rooting for the roulette wheel as it spins. Those things you loose with having virtual currency and screens instead of tables and wheels.

If I dont get to roll the dice or interact with people then I can play online for a lot less money sipping on my 2$ Gatoraid...

 

[Venturalvn]

Will be heading to Vegas with some friends for my birthday in a couple weeks, and even though I've only been once in the last 2 years, I'm almost dreading the trip. The Vegas I once knew is gone. The greed is just too much for me to even entertain these days.

It's sad that as someone who used to go 4-5 times a year for 25 years and loved each and every trip, I can't even stomach the thought of going these days. Regardless of the tourism numbers being factually (it's not a feeling) down, it's obviously reached a point of sentiment that will be hard for people like me to recover from without some serious refresh in philosophy and heavy branding.

 

[justsomedude]

Regardless of the tourism numbers being factually (it's not a feeling) down, it's obviously reached a point of sentiment that will be hard for people like me to recover from without some serious refresh in philosophy and heavy branding.

This is the real issue: the sentiment.

There are people who have never even been to Vegas asking “what the fuck happened to Las Vegas?”

When your brand has a negative perception from people who don’t even consume it, you’re in trouble.

I really don’t know how they reverse this.

 

[Jaxen]

I was there last month, a friend in town for a festival concert got a double queen room and I split it with him.
The F1 stuff was annoying, it pushed all the foot traffic on the north side of the Strip so it made it feel more crowded, but it wasn't "dead".
There are food and room deals if you look (hard). It's sad what they're doing on the casino floor with the 6:5, 000, etc, but a savvy gambler paying attention can still find "not bad" games. And the poker scene is strong.
Is it dead? No. Does it have aches and pains? Yes, and it's not eating healthy. It's on the path to being in a wheelchair.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I’m looking forward to doing my part next week for F1

 

[TheYeti]

I was a twice-a-year Vegas visitor for the past 15 years or so. Used to be I would start planning my next trip as soon as I got home from the previous. My last trip was in October of last year and I have no plans for another any time soon.

 

[BigGrizz]

Vegas these days makes you kind of miss the mob. Lol. At least they would give you free or cheap meals so you would gamble and they could money launder.

 

[ekricket]

Vegas these days makes you kind of miss the mob. Lol. At least they would give you free or cheap meals so you would gamble and they could money launder.

It does suck anytime the government takes over an industry. The mob just isn’t what it used to be