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Is this angling? (2 Viewers)

fishsaybloop said:
Hi folks,

Had an interesting discussion at a home game recently and wanted to get some thoughts whether this is angling.

Casual friends $1/2 game, stacks are $500 - $1k.

Heads up to the river and Villain makes a $50 (3/4 pot) bet. As hero (not me) is deciding to make the call, V makes a comment "don't worry its only $50". At which point, hero snap calls and V turns over the nut flush.

H makes a comment saying that V's statement is angling and in a 'less friendly' game would get called out / penalised.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
Not an angle at all.
 
Unpopular opinion incoming:

Doug's take that Kabhrel should have called is worse than the angle shoot.
 
JMC9389 said:
Unpopular opinion incoming:

Doug's take that Kabhrel should have called is worse than the angle shoot.
Click to expand...


honestly he should have...it was 110K all in and Kahbrel was 3400K (i know 3.4mil, but this way you can see its 1/30th of his stack.)
 
joeyshin said:
personal feelings about Kahbrel aside.. still an angle?

is it the hand motion or what he said?
Click to expand...
Oh I kinda like the guy. Doesn't mean he's not a dick.
My take is that It's the whole package. The hand motion was fairly ambiguous, and yet it also seemed clear that it meant "okay let's go." His words, his hand motion, his attitude - it was all intended to deceive. I don't think we need to treat these things like a criminal trial - the very definition of angling is getting an unfair advantage WITHOUT BREAKING A RULE; that makes it tough to prove. Since there's no rule broken, it's all very subjective. But subjectively, it seems pretty clear to me what Martin did.
And again, this doesn't justify it, but that guy should have known better.
 
joeyshin said:
honestly he should have...it was 110K all in and Kahbrel was 3400K (i know 3.4mil, but this way you can see its 1/30th of his stack.)
Click to expand...
To chase a gutter? Nah.
 
JMC9389 said:
To chase a gutter? Nah.
Click to expand...
Or another Q

upNdown said:
Oh I kinda like the guy. Doesn't mean he's not a dick.
My take is that It's the whole package. The hand motion was fairly ambiguous, and yet it also seemed clear that it meant "okay let's go." His words, his hand motion, his attitude - it was all intended to deceive. I don't think we need to treat these things like a criminal trial - the very definition of angling is getting an unfair advantage WITHOUT BREAKING A RULE; that makes it tough to prove. Since there's no rule broken, it's all very subjective. But subjectively, it seems pretty clear to me what Martin did.
And again, this doesn't justify it, but that guy should have known better.
Click to expand...


I’m kinda on the fence. I see angling as not breaking the rules but bending the rules. So I thought the hand motion is enough for it to be an angle. But if I was the other guy I would clarify “is he all in” before tabling my cards.
 
Yup, angle from someone who's big on pissing people off. He perturbs them so that they're not thinking straight and they fall for things like that.
 
joeyshin said:
Confusing players and them not thinking straight isn’t angling. Speech play maybe
Click to expand...
Pissing them off on purpose and annoying them can be considered against the rules, but that's anothing discussion. I agree that's not angling, but it sets the stage for people doing dumb things against him, I think its a miserable but effective strategy.

Making a gesture and saying things which can be misconstrued as going all-in (forward hand gesture, "open your hand") to gain information from your opponent is angling by definition.
 
NotRealNameNoSir said:
Pissing them off on purpose and annoying them can be considered against the rules, but that's anothing discussion. I agree that's not angling, but it sets the stage for people doing dumb things against him, I think its a miserable but effective strategy.

Making a gesture and saying things which can be misconstrued as going all-in (forward hand gesture, "open your hand") to gain information from your opponent is angling by definition.
Click to expand...


I agree. I think the hand motion is the angle. But the speech play, while annoying, I don’t think is an angle.
 
joeyshin said:
I agree. I think the hand motion is the angle. But the speech play, while annoying, I don’t think is an angle.
Click to expand...
Mmmm I can see it, but that's the point of angling. Its gray area when its all added up. Just the hand or just the speech wouldn't be as powerful as him acting as if he's calling without saying as much. The speech play "show your hand" isn't like him asking his opponent if he has Aces, its him acting as if he's calling to confuse his opponent into showing down his hand, and its done in concert with his hand motion implying that he's calling.

You're entitled to think that way though and I don't envy the floor whenever Martin is involved. I agree, player should've protected his hand better. Especially with strangers, I'll always look at the dealer first to confirm showdown.
 
joeyshin said:


Hand at 3:10.

Angle or no?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's an angle. Kabrhel's words and actions are not technically against the rules but are clearly intended to trick an opponent to give Kabrhel an unfair advantage that's against the spirit of the game. It's not a particularly sophisticated angle, just a speechplay freeroll that happened to work out for him.

Alioto should have protected his hand, for sure, especially against a motormouth sociopath like Kabrhel. Never take someone like Kabrhel's word about anything, nor any gesture of his as an impetus to act. Verify anything questionable through the dealer and/or floor. Dude cannot be trusted, bottom line.

Kabrhel is going to keep acting like this until someone puts him in his place. He specializes in tournaments because it gives him a captive audience that's stuck tolerating his abhorrent behavior, and I guarantee it's calculated, but the downside to this (for him) is that people can't just walk away.

Someday, he's going to push the wrong button with the wrong person and get beaten senseless in front of 100 cameras and 1,000 witnesses.

It will be one of the most glorious moments in poker history.
 
How cool would it be if Celebrity Deathmatch was still around and did a Martin Kabrhel vs Will Kassouf episode.

1000062006.webp


Lets Go Start GIF
 
Speech play is annoying but not angling, as long it's not Kabrhel No Limit style. Truly he wants people to get mad at him. He should do time with Shkreli or Elisabeth Holmes, or in a deaf & dumb hospital.
 
chippitydoodah said:
How cool would it be if Celebrity Deathmatch was still around and did a Martin Kabrhel vs Will Kassouf episode.

View attachment 1580634

Lets Go Start GIF
Click to expand...



You think they’re famous enough in the nonpoker world to get featured on Celebrity DeathMatch?


They’d probably have Garrett vs Robbi before kahbrel and Kassouf
 
fishsaybloop said:
Hi folks,

Had an interesting discussion at a home game recently and wanted to get some thoughts whether this is angling.

Casual friends $1/2 game, stacks are $500 - $1k.

Heads up to the river and Villain makes a $50 (3/4 pot) bet. As hero (not me) is deciding to make the call, V makes a comment "don't worry its only $50". At which point, hero snap calls and V turns over the nut flush.

H makes a comment saying that V's statement is angling and in a 'less friendly' game would get called out / penalised.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
Fair play. Caller made a bad read and probably has sour grapes, but it's part of the game.

Nothing remotely penalizable here.
 

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