Is everyone going broke here or am I a donk??? (1 Viewer)

GetUrShineBox

GetUrShineBox

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I started dabbling in online poker again and find myself winning more than losing lately but the beats I'm taking are incredibly bad. Losing to 2 and 3 outers constantly. My JJ losing to 55 or my AK losing to AJ. Most of these are all in jams preflop so really nothing I can do but pray to the poker gods. Anyway I've run up my bankroll from like $200-$300 to about $1500 mostly playing $10-$50 tourney's (some PLO too) and now starting to play the $100 daily they have which is a great structure.

So I'm in the $100 buy in $10k guarantee tourney on Party Poker the other night and make it down to the final table and there are 8 players left out of 128.
Top 8 Payouts are as follows (rounding) $3350, $2025, $1450, $1100, $840, $625, $475, $360
Chips counts are $1.5m, 840k, 825k, 755k, 713k, 590k, 480k, 460k (I'm the one with 460k)
Blinds are 14k/28k w 3.5k ante but about to go up to 16/32k the next hand.

Chip leader and guy to his left both are being super aggressive with min raising/calling a lot preflop.
I'm in the BB with J9 clubs
2nd to act min raises to 56k, chip leader calls.... again. (this feels like the 5th time in the last 8-9 hands these two have been raise/calling), everyone folds to me. Its 28k to call and 182k in the pot so to me this is a no brainer which brings me to my first question. Am I supposed to just fold here and move on, conserve chips, and wait for a better spot where I can be the aggressor?
Anyway, I call so now there is 210k in the pot.
Flop comes 2 9 J Rainbow
Original raiser checks, chip leader bets 80k, its on me. So 290k in the pot and I have top 2 pair with around 400k behind.
My options are obviously
- Fold (No F'in way bc why did i call in the first place)
- call (risk a really bad turn card that can make or bring in lots of draws)
- reraise to like 160k or 200k
- Shove

What's the play?
 
Well obviously the title gives it away.
I shove because he's the chip leader and I'm thinking(hoping) he has one pair, some sort of straight draw, etc... The only thing I'm saying out loud is please don't have 22.

I shove wanting to just take it down and having a stack of 700k.
He snaps and turns over 99
The case F'ing 9
Now wait there are 2 J's left, surely if the case 9 can come then a J can come no? Hell no, send my ass crying home.
 
Lol tagging me is like calling a plumber to fix a roof leak. They may know what the problem is but they may not the best person to call for it.

But yeah, you're deep enough to call and see what develops preflop. Upon seeing that flop, what are you doing? Shove!
 
GetUrShineBox said:
I started dabbling in online poker again and find myself winning more than losing lately but the beats I'm taking are incredibly bad. Losing to 2 and 3 outers constantly. My JJ losing to 55 or my AK losing to AJ. Most of these are all in jams preflop so really nothing I can do but pray to the poker gods. Anyway I've run up my bankroll from like $200-$300 to about $1500 mostly playing $10-$50 tourney's (some PLO too) and now starting to play the $100 daily they have which is a great structure.

So I'm in the $100 buy in $10k guarantee tourney on Party Poker the other night and make it down to the final table and there are 8 players left out of 128.
Top 8 Payouts are as follows (rounding) $3350, $2025, $1450, $1100, $840, $625, $475, $360
Chips counts are $1.5m, 840k, 825k, 755k, 713k, 590k, 480k, 460k (I'm the one with 460k)
Blinds are 14k/28k w 3.5k ante but about to go up to 16/32k the next hand.

Chip leader and guy to his left both are being super aggressive with min raising/calling a lot preflop.
I'm in the BB with J9 clubs
2nd to act min raises to 56k, chip leader calls.... again. (this feels like the 5th time in the last 8-9 hands these two have been raise/calling), everyone folds to me. Its 28k to call and 182k in the pot so to me this is a no brainer which brings me to my first question. Am I supposed to just fold here and move on, conserve chips, and wait for a better spot where I can be the aggressor?
Anyway, I call so now there is 210k in the pot.
Flop comes 2 9 J Rainbow
Original raiser checks, chip leader bets 80k, its on me. So 290k in the pot and I have top 2 pair with around 400k behind.
My options are obviously
- Fold (No F'in way bc why did i call in the first place)
- call (risk a really bad turn card that can make or bring in lots of draws)
- reraise to like 160k or 200k
- Shove

What's the play?
Click to expand...

Without getting in to far if you are playing tournaments and the structure is such that rapid stack building is required to survive into the mid/late game along with relatively low buy in's results in "shove play" where players are looking at earnings per hour vs loss. Thus the play is loose. I have never made $ in my life playing cheap poker, I call too much and push lacking respect for the value of hands played. Sometimes in tournies you lose regardless of how you play because others are forced. All you can do is best efforts to play as best you can.
 
GetUrShineBox said:
I started dabbling in online poker again and find myself winning more than losing lately but the beats I'm taking are incredibly bad. Losing to 2 and 3 outers constantly. My JJ losing to 55 or my AK losing to AJ. Most of these are all in jams preflop so really nothing I can do but pray to the poker gods. Anyway I've run up my bankroll from like $200-$300 to about $1500 mostly playing $10-$50 tourney's (some PLO too) and now starting to play the $100 daily they have which is a great structure.

So I'm in the $100 buy in $10k guarantee tourney on Party Poker the other night and make it down to the final table and there are 8 players left out of 128.
Top 8 Payouts are as follows (rounding) $3350, $2025, $1450, $1100, $840, $625, $475, $360
Chips counts are $1.5m, 840k, 825k, 755k, 713k, 590k, 480k, 460k (I'm the one with 460k)
Blinds are 14k/28k w 3.5k ante but about to go up to 16/32k the next hand.

Chip leader and guy to his left both are being super aggressive with min raising/calling a lot preflop.
I'm in the BB with J9 clubs
2nd to act min raises to 56k, chip leader calls.... again. (this feels like the 5th time in the last 8-9 hands these two have been raise/calling), everyone folds to me. Its 28k to call and 182k in the pot so to me this is a no brainer which brings me to my first question. Am I supposed to just fold here and move on, conserve chips, and wait for a better spot where I can be the aggressor?
Anyway, I call so now there is 210k in the pot.
Flop comes 2 9 J Rainbow
Original raiser checks, chip leader bets 80k, its on me. So 290k in the pot and I have top 2 pair with around 400k behind.
My options are obviously
- Fold (No F'in way bc why did i call in the first place)
- call (risk a really bad turn card that can make or bring in lots of draws)
- reraise to like 160k or 200k
- Shove

What's the play?
Click to expand...
If bankrollmanagement is a thing for you, you play way too big buy-ins. I don't have an exact number of how many buy ins you need for a multi table tournament. But the number is for sure a lot higher than 15.
 
Santa123 said:
If bankrollmanagement is a thing for you, you play way too big buy-ins. I don't have an exact number of how many buy ins you need for a multi table tournament. But the number is for sure a lot higher than 15.
Click to expand...

No I just play for fun, bankroll management is not my focus.
 
Just cooler spot. With about 15 BB, I think I can find the fold with J9cc, but I think it is 50/50. I probably look at the clock.

The reason why I dislike defending with a short stack is because you are giving away the strength of your hand most of the time and bigger stacks can exert a lot of pressure. I want to be the one pushing it in.

This was the best case flop for you. If for instance the flop came J82r, would you still be calling it off? You have top pair. But most players would fold top pair in this spot if jammed on for their tournament life.

So you have to ask yourself, why am I calling here and if I connect with any card, am I jamming? If not, I wouldn't call.

With the flop, you can't get away from this one. Just jam and get value from QJ, JT, KJ, straight draws with nut backdoors, etc etc. As you said you block combos of 99 and JJ so you are getting it in good a vast majority of the time. That's just how MTTs go. Time to fire the next bullet!
 
GetUrShineBox said:
I started dabbling in online poker again and find myself winning more than losing lately but the beats I'm taking are incredibly bad. Losing to 2 and 3 outers constantly. My JJ losing to 55 or my AK losing to AJ. Most of these are all in jams preflop so really nothing I can do but pray to the poker gods. Anyway I've run up my bankroll from like $200-$300 to about $1500 mostly playing $10-$50 tourney's (some PLO too) and now starting to play the $100 daily they have which is a great structure.

So I'm in the $100 buy in $10k guarantee tourney on Party Poker the other night and make it down to the final table and there are 8 players left out of 128.
Top 8 Payouts are as follows (rounding) $3350, $2025, $1450, $1100, $840, $625, $475, $360
Chips counts are $1.5m, 840k, 825k, 755k, 713k, 590k, 480k, 460k (I'm the one with 460k)
Blinds are 14k/28k w 3.5k ante but about to go up to 16/32k the next hand.

Chip leader and guy to his left both are being super aggressive with min raising/calling a lot preflop.
I'm in the BB with J9 clubs
2nd to act min raises to 56k, chip leader calls.... again. (this feels like the 5th time in the last 8-9 hands these two have been raise/calling), everyone folds to me. Its 28k to call and 182k in the pot so to me this is a no brainer which brings me to my first question. Am I supposed to just fold here and move on, conserve chips, and wait for a better spot where I can be the aggressor?
Anyway, I call so now there is 210k in the pot.
Flop comes 2 9 J Rainbow
Original raiser checks, chip leader bets 80k, its on me. So 290k in the pot and I have top 2 pair with around 400k behind.
My options are obviously
- Fold (No F'in way bc why did i call in the first place)
- call (risk a really bad turn card that can make or bring in lots of draws)
- reraise to like 160k or 200k
- Shove

What's the play?
Click to expand...

JAM!


This is already a "pretty big" pot, no need to slowplay. You are going to get called fairly widely by villain for that reason alone, no need to get tricky. Villian will be faced with calling 220 to win 690, he's probably going with Jx or better here. He's certainly going with any clubs + overcard draw, and you certainly don't want to lay the preflop raiser 450 to 80 to continue. He can call with hands than outdraw you as well. You flopped huge, you have a chance to play for stacks against a player that certainly doesn't have to have jacks-up beat. Go with this.

Edit, a word on preflop. I don't hate the limp as long you have a pretty wide limping range here, including better hands like 88 or AJ. The pot odds are just too good and being down to 15 blinds, you may not get a chance this good to hit big for "cheapish." On the next level you are probably going to have to pick a preflop hand to get it in and steal blinds a few times to stay afloat. Playing a big pot with a hand that can flop big for not a huge price to call seems like a good plan.
 
GetUrShineBox said:
Well obviously the title gives it away.
I shove because he's the chip leader and I'm thinking(hoping) he has one pair, some sort of straight draw, etc... The only thing I'm saying out loud is please don't have 22.

I shove wanting to just take it down and having a stack of 700k.
He snaps and turns over 99
The case F'ing 9
Now wait there are 2 J's left, surely if the case 9 can come then a J can come no? Hell no, send my ass crying home.
Click to expand...
I watch televised poker and they're always talking about GTO and blockers lolz

Then when you play it never seems to matter. Of course he's rolling over JJ or 99.
 
I am shoving here but I’m not going broke

Top two is basically the nuts for my range

This is a double up all day and twice on Sunday’s
 
Once the flop comes, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do anything but shove. Sometimes you'll end up against better hands or worse hands that get there, and that's just poker, but I'd say there's not enough wiggle room to escape that now.

This question is more interesting to me:

GetUrShineBox said:
Am I supposed to just fold here and move on, conserve chips, and wait for a better spot where I can be the aggressor?
Click to expand...
It's relatively little to call for a big-looking pot, but after thinking through the numbers, I'm leaning heavily toward a fold.

It's not like a cash game, where you're sometimes getting 6.5 : 1 plus lots of implied odds from big stacks. Here, 28K is about 6% of your stack. You're getting about 15 : 1 on the rest of your stack, which would just barely pass muster for set-mining, and J9 isn't even that strong.

If you thought you could steal the pot on the flop pretty often, that would be one thing, but calling hoping to catch something isn't really playing the odds. A lot of the time, all you catch with a hand like J9 is a one-pair trap against an overpair or a bigger kicker. Odds of catching two pair or better aren't great.

More importantly, letting a marginal hand go—particularly in a raised pot with a call—gives your opponents an opportunity to bust each other and make money for you, while you wait. You have enough chips to afford several more orbits, and that's probably the best money move here.
 
Last edited:
Call pre is fine. You are the shortest stack which means there is not much ICM pressure on you. Also it means you have to chip up and this is a decent spot for the 1bb. Call is fine/standard.

Flop is just a fist pump check shove and we hope we hold/don’t get unlucky (nothing to do if we lose, you played it fine).

Note that if you were like 3rd or 4th in chips then all of the ICM considerations dramatically change and you actually can fold pre and be more cautious on the flop. Either way it’s tough to ever get away from top 2 in almost any situation.
 
Folding pre isn't an option.
Checkshove flop is standard but calling here is definitely an option esp on a rainbow board, give opener a chance to catch a piece on later streets/barrel it off with air, and you double up (you're in last and can take this line more often as you don't have as much ICM considerations).
But I will say, no chance I'm flicking $100 tournies with a $1500 BR, unless this is really just for fun to you and you're willing to reload $1000+ regularly.

I'd only consider $100 buyin MTTs at $5k+ BR at the very least, even with small field sizes. Risk of ruin is too great.
 
Last edited:
Few if anyone here has bankroll concerns for a $100 buy-in. Come on, that is barely a barrel of really nice chips.

OP is not running any risk of ruin if he loses all of this money. This bankroll is playful. A question of can I make this work? It is all for fun.

Me? I'd fold preflop. Hero is going to bleed himself dry playing long shot fit/fold poker. And he has to play fit fold because his stack is too short to thin the field post flop. J9s makes draws that are 25% - 33% dogs and a couple of percent of the flops will be two pare or trips (and even then Hero is no sure winner). This is a sucker's style prop bet. Don't take it.

Next hand Hero will have an "M" of `5-6. His only choices are fold / shove. (or check in the blind). Not jamming J9s last to act. So we fold.

Post flop, top two is a remarkably lucky flop. Hero shoves and hopes for the best.

Yea, yea the good doctor is a nit ---or--- math is your friend -=- DrStrange
 
DrStrange said:
Few if anyone here has bankroll concerns for a $100 buy-in. Come on, that is barely a barrel of really nice chips.

OP is not running any risk of ruin if he loses all of this money. This bankroll is playful. A question of can I make this work? It is all for fun.

Me? I'd fold preflop. Hero is going to bleed himself dry playing long shot fit/fold poker. And he has to play fit fold because his stack is too short to thin the field post flop. J9s makes draws that are 25% - 33% dogs and a couple of percent of the flops will be two pare or trips (and even then Hero is no sure winner). This is a sucker's style prop bet. Don't take it.

Next hand Hero will have an "M" of `5-6. His only choices are fold / shove. (or check in the blind). Not jamming J9s last to act. So we fold.

Post flop, top two is a remarkably lucky flop. Hero shoves and hopes for the best.

Yea, yea the good doctor is a nit ---or--- math is your friend -=- DrStrange
Click to expand...

I did say "unless this is really just for fun to you and you're willing to reload $1000+ regularly."
 
I can’t understand why people are saying check shove on the flop. If you let somebody else get a bet in, you might be giving them or the other guy or both the odds to call our shove.
Cash game? Sure. Check shove no doubt. But this isn’t a cash game; it’s a final table.
This wasn’t a limped pot and we definitely weren’t ahead pre. Even with top two on a rainbow, I’m pretty sure we don’t want a call here - the table is full and this pot gets us up around 25 bigs. Plenty of time.
 
I think folding/ calling pre are either fine.

The flop comes down beautiful for your hand.

I think shoving is a little bit exzessiv(raising 5x).
Your opponents probably havent hit the flop at all. Raising will lead to a lot of folds. Your hand is that strong with such a dry flop, that I would lean to check call, check shove the turn/river or donk bet the turn.

This is your best chance to fully douple up and proceed the tourney with a bigger stack.
 
upNdown said:
I can’t understand why people are saying check shove on the flop. If you let somebody else get a bet in, you might be giving them or the other guy or both the odds to call our shove.
Cash game? Sure. Check shove no doubt. But this isn’t a cash game; it’s a final table.
This wasn’t a limped pot and we definitely weren’t ahead pre. Even with top two on a rainbow, I’m pretty sure we don’t want a call here - the table is full and this pot gets us up around 25 bigs. Plenty of time.
Click to expand...
Yes, also I was the BB so they acted first. Original raiser was first to act and checked, chip leader bet 80k. So I never had the option to check raise. Him leading out on a rainbow board is all the more reason why I figured I was good and just wanted to take down the pot there. If I'm him I bet smaller or check to let the opponents hang themselves.
 

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