Interesting river decision OOP vs a strong opponent ($1/3/10 game) (1 Viewer)

[Senzrock]

Haven't posted a strategy hand in a while and I'm getting ready for a week at the Borgata, so figured I would see what people think about this spot -

Context: Playing a $1/3/10 game (It was billed as a deepstacked $1/3 game with $2k rebuy limits and everyone has been straddling). Mix of super action players (a few of them super splashy) and 3 strong regs. We are currently 9-handed and the game has been playing fast/loose with opens usually coming in at $50 and 3bets at $250. While it is technically deepstacked, the straddles and the action are making this game play a lot shallower than it might seem. I am $1200 effective, main villain in the hand has me covered.

Action: UTG straddles to $10 and UTG +1 (strong player) limps in for $10 which has becoming more common as the action players have just been blind raising almost any hand to $50 preflop. This has meant that some of the regs have mixed in some limp-raises and limp-calling into their strategy (usually all of us would 100% come in for a raise if entering the pot). two more calls to me in the SB and I look down at initial thoughts?

 

[buffalojim]

I'll be that guy... fold, as fast as you can.

 

[MrCatPants]

Have significant opens been clearing the field at all? If not, out of position a hand like JJ becomes a set mining candidate and I would just limp call.

 

[Beakertwang]

Pocket jacks out of position in a splashy game? What could go wrong? Raise to $120.

 

[bernielomax]

Maybe I am reading this incorrectly, but how many players are still in the hand when action is on you?

This seems like one of those games where raising might not accomplish much pre flop, that said, I am raising to see where UTG+1 (strong player) is at.

 

[Josh Kifer]

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I see 3 options:

1) limp call to set mine, not wanting to get too involved with a narginal hand multi-way. I would play this way if I just sat down at a table or if I was winning a lot and don’t want to blow it all at once.

2) strong raise ($100+) to discourage light cold calling or make a potential villain 3 bet cost $350-400 which could likely pot commit them if you jam in response. I would play this way if I was losing or even.

3) limp with the intention of stiff 3 betting their open raise to isolate to heads up. I would play this way if I was losing or winning.

Also would depend what actions you have taken historically in this spot ie if you’ve only raised here with premiums, if you have 3-4 bet before, or if you tend to limp call.

 

[joker80]

I would limp with the intention of 3 betting large , especially if the splashing players 3 bet and then you get calls again

 

[kmccormick100]

If std opens are to $50, I'm making it $90-100 probably. If you think the UTG1 player may have a strong range and is waiting for the limp 3b, a case could be made for flatting and set mining, but JJ is too strong IMO, especially with the dead money out there.

 

[Senzrock]

I would limp with the intention of 3 betting large , especially if the splashing players 3 bet and then you get calls again

We are in the SB so only BB + straddle left to act after us. Meaning… if we want to raise pre, now is probably the time. But maybe you’re saying we can limp and raise if one of those last two players decides to squeeze?

On the other question, raises have rarely taken it down preflop but they do thin the field, depending on what the bet size had been.

 

[joker80]

We are in the SB so only BB + straddle left to act after us. Meaning… if we want to raise pre, now is probably the time. But maybe you’re saying we can limp and raise if one of those last two players decides to squeeze?

On the other question, raises have rarely taken it down preflop but they do thin the field, depending on what the bet size had been.

Are the BB and straddle likely to raise?

 

[TheDuke]

BB or UTG one of the splashy players?

If so, limp with intention of raising.

 

[warma]

One one hand, never count on jacks.

On the other, a family pot is sure to bring trouble and someone is likely to make something… will it be you?

 

[Legend5555]

With 4 limps in this type of game, I think they're is occasionally some merit to limping along and playing this more like 44-88 if we are just always going multiway here even if we raise. Even more true of the good players are mixing in limp reraises. Because if they do that we suddenly have to decide if their range for doing so is wide enough to play for stacks pre with JJ. Are hand as well as our range will be hard to play well if that happens. Best case scenario if they limp raise is that there is a call between and we just get to jam for 120bb effective. Which would probably be +EV but feels gross.

I'm sure raising still shows more EV long term, but it's going to be very difficult to play post. I'm torn. I probably still raise to like 100 pre and just hope UTG+1 folds.

 

[JMC9389]

Raise to $100 with the intent to fold or four bet to a three bet depending on the cast of characters

 

[Senzrock]

Are the BB and straddle likely to raise?

In this game, anyone is likely to raise at any point, including both of the players left to act. One of them specifically is an action player but even he, if last to act, is less likely to do so here completing the action imo.

 

[Senzrock]

Context: Playing a $1/3/10 game (It was billed as a deepstacked $1/3 game with $2k rebuy limits and everyone has been straddling). Mix of super action players (a few of them super splashy) and 3 strong regs. We are currently 9-handed and the game has been playing fast/loose with opens usually coming in at $50 and 3bets at $250. While it is technically deepstacked, the straddles and the action are making this game play a lot shallower than it might seem. I am $1200 effective, main villain in the hand has me covered.


Preflop: UTG straddles to $10 and UTG +1 (strong player) limps in for $10 which has becoming more common as the action players have just been blind raising almost any hand to $50 preflop. This has meant that some of the regs have mixed in some limp-raises and limp-calling into their strategy (usually all of us would 100% come in for a raise if entering the pot). two more calls to me in the SB and I look down at

Hero raises to $125. While I think there are some merits for slow playing JJ here, I think in a game like this it a bit too strong of a hand to play this way. I will almost always be check folding the flop and am just letting everyone into the pot with weaker ranges, basically giving up with what is likely the best hand if I don't flop a set. Bit too weak for me, I want to see if I can take it down or get heads up vs a weak range. If someone 3bets, me, I can reevaluate. We see the flop below) and have our next decision...

UTG+1 limps $10
UTG+2 folds
MP 1 folds
MP 2 folds
HJ calls $10
BTN calls $10
Hero (SB): Raise to $125
BB Folds
Straddle folds
UTG +1 Calls $125
HJ folds
BTN folds

Pot: $270

Flop: Tc7c6h

Action to Hero with

 

[Senzrock]

Context: Playing a $1/3/10 game (It was billed as a deepstacked $1/3 game with $2k rebuy limits and everyone has been straddling). Mix of super action players (a few of them super splashy) and 3 strong regs. We are currently 9-handed and the game has been playing fast/loose with opens usually coming in at $50 and 3bets at $250. While it is technically deepstacked, the straddles and the action are making this game play a lot shallower than it might seem. I am $1200 effective, main villain in the hand has me covered.


Preflop: UTG straddles to $10 and UTG +1 (strong player) limps in for $10 which has becoming more common as the action players have just been blind raising almost any hand to $50 preflop. This has meant that some of the regs have mixed in some limp-raises and limp-calling into their strategy (usually all of us would 100% come in for a raise if entering the pot). two more calls to me in the SB and I look down at

Hero raises to $125. While I think there are some merits for slow playing JJ here, I think in a game like this it a bit too strong of a hand to play this way. I will almost always be check folding the flop and am just letting everyone into the pot with weaker ranges, basically giving up with what is likely the best hand if I don't flop a set. Bit too weak for me, I want to see if I can take it down or get heads up vs a weak range. If someone 3bets, me, I can reevaluate. We see the flop below) and have our next decision...

UTG+1 limps $10
UTG+2 folds
MP 1 folds
MP 2 folds
HJ calls $10
BTN calls $10
Hero (SB): Raise to $125
BB Folds
Straddle folds
UTG +1 Calls $125
HJ folds
BTN folds

Pot: $270

Flop: Tc7c6h

Action to Hero with

Questions I am asking myself on this flop:

What does my range look like to villain?
What does villains range look like to me?
Is this a good flop for our range?
Is this a good flop for villains range?
Is this a good flop for our actual hand?

 

[DirtyTIVA]

In this game, anyone is likely to raise at any point, including both of the players left to act. One of them specifically is an action player but even he, if last to act, is less likely to do so here completing the action imo.

With these players I feel if you raise out of the SB you’re likely going to be 3 bet or worse 3 bet and 4 bet making anything less than a jam not an option. I would limp call to disguise the strength of your hand.

There isn’t a lot of dead money in there ($50) to win by raising and you’re either going to be getting 4 callers to a flop, having to play JJ out of position. Or worse be facing a $350 3 bet.

I think there are simply better spots including a table not loaded with aggressive players.

 

[buffalojim]

I bet $200 hoping for a fold.

 

[moechar]

Mmm. Seems like a pretty bad flop for your range when you raise OOP after so many limps. You tend to have a lot of overs here and the best hands in your range prob being TT+ and suited Broadway type of things. For your actual hand, scary board, cuz I’m not sure what he’s limp calling with two more people behind to act… medium pocket pair? Suited connectors? KQs? I think he can have a lot more hands that hit this flop than you can in this situation.

 

[Senzrock]

With these players I feel if you raise out of the SB you’re likely going to be 3 bet or worse 3 bet and 4 bet

So if I am likely to get raised here vs loose opponents who can show up with anything... don't we want them to raise so we can get it in with JJ vs that range? Maybe I am misunderstanding. But if we are worried that action players are going to re-raise with, what by definition is likely to be worse, isn't this actually a good thing? I know JJ isn't AA but still...

 

[Senzrock]

Mmm. Seems like a pretty bad flop for your range when you raise OOP after so many limps. You tend to have a lot of overs here and the best hands in your range prob being TT+ and suited Broadway type of things. For your actual hand, scary board, cuz I’m not sure what he’s limp calling with two more people behind to act… medium pocket pair? Suited connectors? KQs? I think he can have a lot more hands that hit this flop than you can in this situation.

Yeah I think this is the right way to look at our respective ranges. Other questions we might want to ask ourselves, is a player like this ever calling $125 with hands like T9s or 65s (we beat those kinds of hands) and if so, they are also likely to be calling hands like 98s (nuts) and all pairs around the board (various gutshots and also the rare set).

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Questions I am asking myself on this flop:

What does my range look like to villain?
What does villains range look like to me?
Is this a good flop for our range?
Is this a good flop for villains range?
Is this a good flop for our actual hand?

Unless they think you’re a crazy asian they should be crediting you with 2 overs or at least 88/99 here. Gotta c bet and find out where you are. 3/4-full pot. Wouldn’t be the worst to get all your money in here on the flop if it comes to that.

You beat the AKc/AQc/KQc, 88/99, block broadway draws, have backdoor hearts.

Problem is TT/66/77/89 will raise and look exactly like AQc.

Edit: I would have a hard time getting away from this flop with JJ.

@Senzrock to reply to your previous comment I personally like putting the onus on the other player and hate being put in the blender myself to make difficult decisions. I’m also notorious for playing close to ATC and raising on boards like this in position @Godzilla28

 

[JMC9389]

I bet $200 hoping for a fold.

What Jim said. Dangerous board for an overpair. Makes the draws pay to see more cards. If they flopped it they flopped it.

 

[Senzrock]

I bet $200 hoping for a fold.

What do we do if they raise us?

 

[JMC9389]

What do we do if they raise us?

Villain dependent. I shove for a LAG type villain. Cry fold to a tight villain. Any pair higher than Jack's 4 bets pre I think. Hero is ahead here unless villain has a set.

 

[buffalojim]

What do we do if they raise us?

I think you can tell my answers are not super thought out. Depending what the raise is I'd like to see another card. My gut tells me he's got pocket 88's or an Ax. Either way I think I'm in the lead.

 

[moechar]

What do we do if they raise us?

I’m conflicted. Part of me thinks you just have to fold if they raise because even the bottom of their raising range has a ton of equity as we do not block any of the draws. No club in our hand, 89 is already there. If any over card comes, even a hand like k9 suited if he’s crazy enough to limp call that has a ton of merit to raise here.

The other part of me thinks if he has a lot of drawing hands here, checking here is letting him check back for free and improve. So I almost wanna say bet 1/3 pot and fold to a raise would be my line of thinking? Idk if that’s right though so just speaking out loud lol

 

[Senzrock]

I think you can tell my answers are not super thought out. Depending what the raise is I'd like to see another card. My gut tells me he's got pocket 88's or an Ax. Either way I think I'm in the lead.

Yeah I think hands like these are always fun/good to try to articulate why we are arguing for a specific action over another one. While our gut is important, I think probably better to think through what hands villain might have for value vs hands that we are likely beating here before we take any actions.