Tourney iNinja’s ”ressurection” tournament structure (1 Viewer)

[Blind Joe]

Great suggestion to make it a percentage “average stack”. I might try that.

Wouldn't the average stack simply be the starting stack?

 

[Mr Winberg]

Wouldn't the average stack simply be the starting stack?

No. Everytime someone busts and is resurrected, the average stack increases, and it will increase more each time.

 

[Mr Winberg]

1) you can predict the total chips in play and therefore the total time

Well, this isn't exactly true, since the order of busts would affect the size of the average stack... but it can be guestimated. And there's a clear "worst case scenario". Ah well...

 

[Blind Joe]

I can imagine doing this around Halloween and calling it the Zombie Chip™

 

[Wils]

So, three and a half years on, has anybody tried this? Is it still a thing or did it die a dishonourable death ? Has anyone tried one of the variations suggested above?

 

[Mr Winberg]

So, three and a half years on, has anybody tried this? Is it still a thing or did it die a dishonourable death ? Has anyone tried one of the variations suggested above?

I've done a resurrection format where you start with 30k and get 50k when resurrected. If you make it to the first break you get the 50k then, and from there it's a freezout. So like a prebuy but with a larger second stack. Worked well.

 

[Josh Kifer]

So, three and a half years on, has anybody tried this? Is it still a thing or did it die a dishonourable death ? Has anyone tried one of the variations suggested above?

Im gonna try an variant of it soon.

Gonna try 100/200 with 8k starting stacks. With forced use of the Bounty at 800/1600 (for a max 32k gain) 40 dollar buy in. Could be spicy.

 

[BGinGA]

So, three and a half years on, has anybody tried this? Is it still a thing or did it die a dishonourable death ? Has anyone tried one of the variations suggested above?

There are/have been a bunch of similar 'Reload' style tournament format variants that have been implemented since then, but none (to my knowledge) that specifically used the 'current 20 big blinds' amount for resurrection..... which I feel is the biggest difference between a 'resurrection' event (as originally defined) and the more common re-buy / re-load / pre-buy style second-chance formats (most of which use a predetermined fixed amount after busting out).

Dunno what happened with the linked event in the OP, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died out during the covid outbreak.

I've slightly changed my earlier stance, however -- I'd now be willing to give a "20bb button" event a shot. Still debating on specific usage rules, though:

1. a) Pre-paid cost as part of original entry, or b) an optional additional cost at time of bust-out?

2. If 1b above, charge a) a fixed cost for the 20bb, or b) an increasing-cost amount based on either the "% of total BBs" or "% of avg stack" in play?

3. Allow resurrection after busting out a) through the event conclusion, or only until a fixed point in time -- either b) "in-the-$$", c) "when xx total BBs in play", or d) "when xx players remain" (i.e. two or three) -- at which time all remaining 20bb buttons are redeemed.

4. Allow use of the 20bb button AT ANY TIME during play, not just after a player busts. And if so, a) must it be redeemed for 20bb between hands, or b) can a player include it with a bet/raise/call action and redeem it during play?


I'm unlikely to include rule #4 for this event, since that approach tends to lose the 'resurrection' angle entirely (although I have ran similar pre-buy events in the past).

And "pre-paid resurrection" (1a) is the simplest solution, but unfortunately rewards timid and tight/nitty play (since the value of 20bb really ramps up over time). Paying for that extra value at time of use with an increasing-costs scale (2b) would seem to balance out the play styles a bit.

I'm leaning towards forced redemption once heads-up (3d).

Feel free to comment.

 

[Wils]

Thanks for the detailed info there. This is potentially an excellent format but there's a lot to consider - the potential havoc of not knowing at the start of the game how many big blinds will be on the table after an hour or two, being one of the main ones.

 

[Wils]

Lol just doing some spreadsheet testing and there are 600 BB on the table at the start of my 6 player example game (based on 1st level 25/50) and 8,040 BB (still based on 25/50) when the last two players cash in their resurrection chips (when they reach the money).

 

[Mojo1312]

I heard about this on a podcast and was intrigued by 1) a unique way to do tournament rebuys 2) another type of chip.

Article explaining it is here: https://cardplayerlifestyle.com/press-release-ininja-poker-resurrection-series-begins-at-diamond-jo/

TLDR is that you get a ”ressurection” chip that gives you 20 BB at whatever level you bust. The longer you last the more valuable the chip becomes. It makes every tourney a double elimination but still very interesting.

Has anyone tried this and what do you think?

Who is the cash player that came up with this idea?

 

[BGinGA]

Lol just doing some spreadsheet testing and there are 600 BB on the table at the start of my 6 player example game (based on 1st level 25/50) and 8,040 BB (still based on 25/50) when the last two players cash in their resurrection chips (when they reach the money).

Yes, but the better question is how many big blinds are in play when they reach the money, based on the projected blind levels at that time?

 

[upNdown]

And "pre-paid resurrection" (1a) is the simplest solution, but unfortunately rewards timid and tight/nitty play (since the value of 20bb really ramps up over time).

Yes, that’s a problem.

Paying for that extra value at time of use with an increasing-costs scale (2b) would seem to balance out the play styles a bit.

I don’t like that solution - you’re getting closer to a cash game.

I guess the first solution is try is to create a point where all resurrections are automatically converted to 20bb. Probably sometime before the bubble. But how far before the bubble is the question.

 

[upNdown]

There are/have been a bunch of similar 'Reload' style tournament format variants that have been implemented since then, but none (to my knowledge) that specifically used the 'current 20 big blinds' amount for resurrection..... which I feel is the biggest difference between a 'resurrection' event (as originally defined) and the more common re-buy / re-load / pre-buy style second-chance formats (most of which use a predetermined fixed amount after busting out).

Dunno what happened with the linked event in the OP, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died out during the covid outbreak.

I've slightly changed my earlier stance, however -- I'd now be willing to give a "20bb button" event a shot. Still debating on specific usage rules, though:

1. a) Pre-paid cost as part of original entry, or b) an optional additional cost at time of bust-out?

2. If 1b above, charge a) a fixed cost for the 20bb, or b) an increasing-cost amount based on either the "% of total BBs" or "% of avg stack" in play?

3. Allow resurrection after busting out a) through the event conclusion, or only until a fixed point in time -- either b) "in-the-$$", c) "when xx total BBs in play", or d) "when xx players remain" (i.e. two or three) -- at which time all remaining 20bb buttons are redeemed.

4. Allow use of the 20bb button AT ANY TIME during play, not just after a player busts. And if so, a) must it be redeemed for 20bb between hands, or b) can a player include it with a bet/raise/call action and redeem it during play?


I'm unlikely to include rule #4 for this event, since that approach tends to lose the 'resurrection' angle entirely (although I have ran similar pre-buy events in the past).

And "pre-paid resurrection" (1a) is the simplest solution, but unfortunately rewards timid and tight/nitty play (since the value of 20bb really ramps up over time). Paying for that extra value at time of use with an increasing-costs scale (2b) would seem to balance out the play styles a bit.

I'm leaning towards forced redemption once heads-up (3d).

Feel free to comment.

Ooh! How about if you combine this with a bounty? Take a big enough hunk out of the prize pool for bounties (two per player in this format, I guess) and suddenly nitting it up isn’t a great strategy.

 

[MeridianFC]

Man I do not like the idea of this type of tourney at all. That's just me though.

If tourney life has gotten so boring raise the stakes or go crazy with the prop bets.

 

[Wils]

Yes, but the better question is how many big blinds are in play when they reach the money, based on the projected blind levels at that time?

I can't remember the projection criteria, but using that 8040 blinds as a marker, if we say the "in the money" level kicks in two levels before the game ends, you're looking at blinds of 5000/10000. Compared to a projected blind level of 150/300 based on no resurrections.

At that point, the total chip value on the table has gone from 30,000 at the start to 402,000.

Pics below represent the blinds prior to any resurrections, and then after all resurrections have been cashed - but the nature of the beast makes this highly subjective and liable to massive fluctuation.

Edit - realise I didn't answer the original question (how many big blinds when the players reach the money). I'm assuming that's always going to be when there are approx 30-40 BB on the table. Big assumption but this is the least predictable format I know of!

 

[upNdown]

I can't remember the projection criteria, but using that 8040 blinds as a marker, if we say the "in the money" level kicks in two levels before the game ends, you're looking at blinds of 5000/10000. Compared to a projected blind level of 150/300 based on no resurrections.

At that point, the total chip value on the table has gone from 30,000 at the start to 402,000.

Pics below represent the blinds prior to any resurrections, and then after all resurrections have been cashed - but the nature of the beast makes this highly subjective and liable to massive fluctuation.

This must be why jesus invented cards molds.