How to handle hit and runs? (1 Viewer)

[renegadegatorman]

I've been hosting a monthly NLHE cash game among friends and friends of friends for a little over two years now. In the last three sessions we've had problems with players winning big pots or building a big stack and then leaving shortly after. I don't think this is being done intentionally as the last two times it happened the player announced at the beginning when he would be calling it a night but it just so happens they end up building a very large stack just before their previously mentioned departure time.

This has really sucked the air out of the past couple games when a significant portion of the money on the table walks out with hours of poker to still be played. Are there any ways to combat/prevent this from happening. These are my friends and I know they aren't trying to hurt the game or are being greedy but I still want to keep the game enticing to my other friends.

Side note: one of my closest friends who plays is a total nit(which is fine, he can play how he wants) but whenever he gets slightly over a double up he tends to just shut down and stop putting money in the middle, chalking it up to bad cards. Bonus points if you can help me address this issue also.

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

Well firstly I'd differentiate between hit and run and a player needing to leave early.

[...]I don't think this is being done intentionally as the last two times it happened the player announced at the beginning when he would be calling it a night but it just so happens they end up building a very large stack just before their previously mentioned departure time.

This is not a hit and run, this is just a player leaving early after announing it at the beginning of the game.
The player didn't do anything wrong but it certainly can kill a game if players are leaving early regardless of how much money they're up.
I had to call it a night at 10pm one time after the driver of 2 players lost his initial buy in and didn't want to rebuy. This is a problem and I didn't invite that player back since then because I only get to host like every 6 weeks. Calling it a night after a little more than 2 hours of play was dissapointing to say the least.

Communicate to your players beforehand how long you intend to run the game and that players who can't stay beyond a certain time will only be picked for the seat if no other players can come.

Right now my game fills up pretty quickly and I mostly get to pick and choose the players I invite. I haven't had something like that happen to the game since.

Side note: one of my closest friends who plays is a total nit(which is fine, he can play how he wants) but whenever he gets slightly over a double up he tends to just shut down and stop putting money in the middle, chalking it up to bad cards. Bonus points if you can help me address this issue also.

Can't change how players play but you can change who sits at your table. If it's one of your closest friends, you just have to accept his style of play and make up for it with more fun action players to occupy the other seats.

Personally I've given up trying to make poker players out of my best friends. Instead I just befriended other poker players. So much easier to get a good game going.

 

[WedgeRock]

Communicate to your players beforehand how long you intend to run the game and that players who can't stay beyond a certain time will only be picked for the seat if no other players can come.

I would talk to anyone that hits and runs and let them know how it hurts the game (they may not realize it). Ask them to stay until after X o'clock, or at least announce two orbits before they need to leave.

They can certainly get around those requests, as evidenced by your nit player who folds everything after doubling up. But as @OfficerLovejoy suggests, these type of players get demoted on the invite list. Grow your game with players who don't hit and run or nitfold for profit and you can eliminate these types of players. If they are friends and want to know why they don't get invited any more, let them know why.

 

[renegadegatorman]

Well firstly I'd differentiate between hit and run and a player needing to leave early.

This is not a hit and run, this is just a player leaving early after announing it at the beginning of the game.
They player didn't do anything wrong but it certainly can kill a game if players are leaving early regardless of how much money they're up.
I had to call it a night at 10pm one time after the driver of 2 players lost his initial buy in and didn't want to rebuy. This is a problem and I didn't invite that player back since then because I only get to host like every 6 weeks. Calling it a night after a little more than 2 hours of play was dissapointing to say the least.

Communicate to your players beforehand how long you intend to run the game and that players who can't stay beyond a certain time will only be picked for the seat if no other players can come.

Right now my game fills up pretty quickly and I mostly get to pick and choose the players I invite. I haven't had something like that happen to the game since.

Can't change how players play but you can change who sits at your table. If it's one of your closest friends, you just have to accept his style of play and make up for it with more fun action players to occupy the other seats.

Personally I've given up trying to make poker players out of my best friends. Instead I just befriended other poker players. So much easier to get a good game going.

You're correct that it's not a hit and run technically speaking, it's just the effect it has on the game feels similar to a hit and run. It really is just a coincidence that the players who have announced they're leaving early have taken down the biggest pot of the night just before they leave, three games in a row.

Nobody at the table gets upset about it but the interest in the game definitely fades after people realize they've lost the opportunity to potentially win some of that money back. Unfortunately I don't have a large enough player pool to choose players, beggars can't be choosers. I'm hopeful that I can meet some other players in my area through the forum.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I've been hosting a monthly NLHE cash game among friends and friends of friends for a little over two years now. In the last three sessions we've had problems with players winning big pots or building a big stack and then leaving shortly after. I don't think this is being done intentionally as the last two times it happened the player announced at the beginning when he would be calling it a night but it just so happens they end up building a very large stack just before their previously mentioned departure time.

This has really sucked the air out of the past couple games when a significant portion of the money on the table walks out with hours of poker to still be played. Are there any ways to combat/prevent this from happening. These are my friends and I know they aren't trying to hurt the game or are being greedy but I still want to keep the game enticing to my other friends.

Side note: one of my closest friends who plays is a total nit(which is fine, he can play how he wants) but whenever he gets slightly over a double up he tends to just shut down and stop putting money in the middle, chalking it up to bad cards. Bonus points if you can help me address this issue also.

Solution: invite @quintooo to your game.

 

[renegadegatorman]

I would talk to anyone that hits and runs and let them know how it hurts the game (they may not realize it). Ask them to stay until after X o'clock, or at least announce two orbits before they need to leave.

They can certainly get around those requests, as evidenced by your nit player who folds everything after doubling up. But as @OfficerLovejoy suggests, these type of players get demoted on the invite list. Grow your game with players who don't hit and run or nitfold for profit and you can eliminate these types of players. If they are friends and want to know why they don't get invited any more, let them know why.

Good point, I think I will start declaring beforehand that we play until time X and if you need to cash out early it has to be after time Y. You made me realize clear communication may be the key here.

 

[jamesjkim]

Solution: invite @quintooo to your game.

No shortage of action!

 

[doublebooyah85]

Gotta let players win and leave. If everyone stayed till the end the better players would continue to prevail.

My game starts at 730pm. At 10pm we go to dealer choice. Usually I lose a few players then so works out perfect. So I think 2-2.5 hours of play is minimum before I’d say something.

 

[renegadegatorman]

Gotta let players win and leave. If everyone stayed till the end the better players would continue to prevail.

My game starts at 730pm. At 10pm we go to dealer choice. Usually I lose a few players then so works out perfect. So I think 2-2.5 hours of play is minimum before I’d say something.

Fair point which I haven't really considered. Now that I think about it I can pinpoint what time specific players generally get felted, and the better players are always cashing out at the very end. I've always just written it off as "if they had more discipline and weren't always limping with a wide open range they wouldn't get felted so quicky." I think maybe setting a specific early cash out time may help those players walk away up slightly or with what they have left and not feel so much pressure.

Thank you for pointing that out to me.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I believe @TheJestyr has a minimum time spent or minimum buy ins lost to be considered for an invite. @Godzilla28 makes sure to have a mix of player types at his games. Any of my players who flake or leave after 1 buy in (and drink half a bottle of blue label) don’t get a first round invite next time. Especially if the lack of attendance results in my game ending earlier than anticipated.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I've been hosting a monthly NLHE cash game among friends and friends of friends for a little over two years now. In the last three sessions we've had problems with players winning big pots or building a big stack and then leaving shortly after. I don't think this is being done intentionally as the last two times it happened the player announced at the beginning when he would be calling it a night but it just so happens they end up building a very large stack just before their previously mentioned departure time.

This has really sucked the air out of the past couple games when a significant portion of the money on the table walks out with hours of poker to still be played. Are there any ways to combat/prevent this from happening. These are my friends and I know they aren't trying to hurt the game or are being greedy but I still want to keep the game enticing to my other friends.

Side note: one of my closest friends who plays is a total nit(which is fine, he can play how he wants) but whenever he gets slightly over a double up he tends to just shut down and stop putting money in the middle, chalking it up to bad cards. Bonus points if you can help me address this issue also.

Do you only play NLHE? Easy to sit on your stack with low blinds and NLHE. Introducing bomb pots force an ante and more action. So do double board games. And of course, the NIT game.

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

Do you only play NLHE? Easy to sit on your stack with low blinds and NLHE. Introducing bomb pots force an ante and more action. So do double board games. And of course, the NIT game.

Oh yeah, good idea! The nit game is perfect for that kind of problem.

 

[tabletalker7]

Is it the same players leaving early on the regular? I have a couple players that only go for a few hours and then call it quits. I solved this problem by also having a few players that can only start a little later on in the evening. Maybe having fresh blood for when they leave will help your game out some.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I love the NIT game since it forces everyone to participate. The ones that complain are always the NITs in the group. It’s good for them to loosen it up a bit. Even a single board bomb pot is good for action. I’m going to do double board next game to see if people like it more.

 

[renegadegatorman]

Solution: invite @quintooo to your game.

Do you only play NLHE? Easy to sit on your stack with low blinds and NLHE. Introducing bomb pots force an ante and more action. So do double board games. And of course, the NIT game.

Yes, I've tried introducing other games but it caused alot of belly aching lol. Bomb pots sound like an excellent idea, I think even the nit will like it. What's "the nit game?" I did a quick search on YouTube and didn't see anything about it.

 

[renegadegatorman]

Is it the same players leaving early on the regular? I have a couple players that only go for a few hours and then call it quits. I solved this problem by also having a few players that can only start a little later on in the evening. Maybe having fresh blood for when they leave will help your game out some.

Typically yes. I have a few friends of friends that work in restaurants/bars and maybe I'll see if they want to start coming by after their shift to bring in some new money.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I love the NIT game since it forces everyone to participate. The ones that complain are always the NITs in the group. It’s good for them to loosen it up a bit. Even a single board bomb pot is good for action. I’m going to do double board next game to see if people like it more.

Double board Bombs can lead to very large multi-way pots that can actually kill your game. When players are 1000+ BB deep. Just ask @Godzilla28

 

[Rakrul]

Hit'n'run (or hit'n'nit) might be the only way for those players to leave with a win once in a while. If you take the win away from them (which you obv shouldn't) they won't come back. Which I guess is fine if you got a big enough player pool and you want to tailor the game into what you like - which is usually a game you're winning at. Personally I like the mix and the challenge.

In fact, I've encouraged losing players to cash out early so they net a win. They say that a losing casino player needs 1 win outta 3 (to come back), in home games the social aspect likely increases this, but their social quota might be full and if they can net a profit at the same time, let them! They'll pay it back the next rounds anyways.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Double board Bombs can lead to very large multi-way pots that can actually kill your game. When players are 1000+ BB deep. Just ask @Godzilla28

We rarely have anyone more than 200BB deep. We cap the buyin unlike you maniacs.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

We rarely have anyone more than 200BB deep. We cap the buyin unlike you maniacs.

Very reasonable. I think the min buy this Sunday is 1000BB. I told @Godzilla28 I’ll buy in for 4000BB again if he uses his PCAs.

 

[renegadegatorman]

Hit'n'run (or hit'n'nit) might be the only way for those players to leave with a win once in a while. If you take the win away from them (which you obv shouldn't) they won't come back. Which I guess is fine if you got a big enough player pool and you want to tailor the game into what you like - which is usually a game you're winning at. Personally I like the mix and the challenge.

In fact, I've encouraged losing players to cash out early so they net a win. They say that a losing casino player needs 1 win outta 3 (to come back), in home games the social aspect likely increases this, but their social quota might be full and if they can net a profit at the same time, let them! They'll pay it back the next rounds anyways.

This point is becoming clearer to me as this thread progresses. I certainly take no issue with people walking away with a W, lord knows I've taken quite a few losses for that to happen haha. However the players who have recently left early after taking down the biggest pot of the night ar .500 players. I think what I've also learned just talking through this is that this was a rare occurrence that just so happened to occur the past three games. I don't think it's going to become an issue and I might be getting ahead of myself.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Very reasonable. I think the min buy this Sunday is 1000BB. I told @Godzilla28 I’ll buy in for 4000BB again if he uses his PCAs.

I think we need a new moniker for your guys’ version of deepstack poker. Does Mariana Trench Stack poker sound accurate?

 

[exodus]

It's inevitable that someone will HNR your game or at least it feels like they are. HNR was a big concern with my group because what if someone leaves and takes 200-300BBs with them? We are a close group of friends and rarely invite friends of friends but before the start, I ask people when they need to get home. This gives the table a better sense of how long everyone wants to play and when they get up to leave people are less likely to be caught off guard. There really isn't any way to prevent HNR at a game because some people will lock up the win and fold until they can leave after their 30-minute notice. The only way to prevent people who HNR multiple times would be to give them low priority on the list or revoke their invite.

 

[wickedwonka121]

I play tighter when I build a bigger stack. But I keep playing. I ride the roller coaster. My advice is tell them how it affects the game. Unless there is a rule, they can build and bounce. I tried stopping my players from rebuying from each other. Buying from each other ruins the "all in" if a player is squirreling away $20s, the money isnt on the table anymore. I couldn't stop it all of course. Those players are rec so they don't know what it means to be a host or tourney director. Technically one can build stacks and then muck for an hour. What can you do? Maybe sprinkle in some tourneys.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I've been hosting a monthly NLHE cash game among friends and friends of friends for a little over two years now. In the last three sessions we've had problems with players winning big pots or building a big stack and then leaving shortly after. I don't think this is being done intentionally as the last two times it happened the player announced at the beginning when he would be calling it a night but it just so happens they end up building a very large stack just before their previously mentioned departure time.

This has really sucked the air out of the past couple games when a significant portion of the money on the table walks out with hours of poker to still be played. Are there any ways to combat/prevent this from happening. These are my friends and I know they aren't trying to hurt the game or are being greedy but I still want to keep the game enticing to my other friends.

Side note: one of my closest friends who plays is a total nit(which is fine, he can play how he wants) but whenever he gets slightly over a double up he tends to just shut down and stop putting money in the middle, chalking it up to bad cards. Bonus points if you can help me address this issue also.

Just an unfortunate coincidence that the players announced ahead of time, nothing you can do. As far as someone locking down their chips, you can’t dictate how someone else play. What you can do is stop giving them action. maybe if they’re gonna only play big hands, they can win the blinds and that’s it, unless it’s a cooler situation.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

Very reasonable. I think the min buy this Sunday is 1000BB. I told @Godzilla28 I’ll buy in for 4000BB again if he uses his PCAs.

If you can't spot the NIT in your 1st half-hour at the table then you are the NIT?

 

[Beakertwang]

I never HNR, because I have a gift for getting down 200bb early, then fighting my way back to even late (which I consider a win).

There's one guy in our game who leaves at about 10PM every time. The first couple times I played with him, he was on heaters, and got up several hundred and left. It irked me, but since then I've realized that he usually loses $100 or more, and always leaves at about 10:00.

 

[TheJestyr]

I believe @TheJestyr has a minimum time spent or minimum buy ins lost to be considered for an invite. @Godzilla28 makes sure to have a mix of player types at his games. Any of my players who flake or leave after 1 buy in (and drink half a bottle of blue label) don’t get a first round invite next time. Especially if the lack of attendance results in my game ending earlier than anticipated.

Yeah, we have a pretty strict four hour/five buy-in minimum rule…our game is bigger and we really discourage shot takers (guys who show up with only one or two buy ins). Most of our players (myself included) feel that if we’re going to risk a large amount, everyone in the game should be willing to risk a large amount as well. I realize this philosophy is not for everyone.

The rules basically are:

When you walk through the door, you have to have a minimum of five buy-ins on you, and you need to be prepared to put it in play. You also need to be prepared to play at least four hours. (If you’ve been there over four hours, you can leave when you want, but you’re still encouraged to give a 30-60 minute warning)…if you’ve been there less than four hours but have lost at least five buy-ins, you can leave whenever as well.

If you’re up (or at least down scraps) and trying to leave in under four hours, you won’t get invited back for a long while (unless it’s an emergency or something)…

We also play three or four blinds usually, and even if you’re away from the table, you’re posted the entire time.

All of this is to encourage action and to encourage people staying seated at the table. Most of the players love the game and the action. We haven’t had a hit and run issue in years. We also vet the players pretty well and are quick to not invite back those who don’t make the game better. We have a decent player pool, so we aren’t afraid to not invite someone for a while.

Lemme know if I can help further at all!! I’ve also successfully ran games as small as $5 buy-ins over the years and am happy to give any insight I can!

 

[Terrys394]

I can’t give any advice on how to handle hit and run artists but I can give some advice to people who like to hit and run. What I do is announce that I can’t stay long at the beginning of the session and give some excuse like “I have to help a friend with something “. Never give a time just give a vague time limit. If you win you now have an excuse to leave. If you’re stuck trying to get even you stay. If someone asks about leaving , just say you’re waiting on a phone call.

 

[Eriks]

Never had a problem with players doing hit and runs or locking up wins by not playing hands. We’re playing the equivalent of $0.1/0.2 up to $0.5/0.5 at the most so I guess there’s not too much incentive. If anyone made a habit of either I would just stop inviting them.