Tourney How much should an 'add-on' cost (2 Viewers)

[tooth_doc]

Hello all,
I run a low-key tourney every once in a while. Usually its $20 buy-in and $5 to a bounty chip. Freezeout. (T25 10,000 total)
I'm kicking around the idea of allowing rebuys until the first break (1 hour mark).
My questions: when do you buy the add-on? (at this first break)
how much should the add-on be? another 10K, 25K?
how much should the add-on cost? $20?
Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Charlie

 

[brocck]

I run a small tournament. $20 buy in 1k chips. Rebuys until the first break around an hour in. My add on is $20 for 2500 chips and we do it at the first break. I’ve been doing it this way for a while and it seems to work fine.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I do 50% of buyin for 50% of starting chips. I have played where the addon is 1/3 of the buyin for 2x buyin chips. I see the merit in making the addon valuable but I don’t know if I like giving folks that large or a boost. It just makes the game longer.

I guess you have to consider what blinds will be at the break and if you do rebuys how you can encourage both before the end of the break.

 

[johnnycnote]

We do 50% of the BI

 

[tooth_doc]

We do 50% of the BI

%0% of BI for 50% of thestarting stack?

 

[tooth_doc]

I do 50% of buyin for 50% of starting chips. I have played where the addon is 1/3 of the buyin for 2x buyin chips. I see the merit in making the addon valuable but I don’t know if I like giving folks that large or a boost. It just makes the game longer.

I guess you have to consider what blinds will be at the break and if you do rebuys how you can encourage both before the end of the break.

I was thinking of accelerating the blinds if needed. It seems like players like having more big chips.
Can the rebuy and add-on be at different times? Seems like both should be done at the first break.

 

[tooth_doc]

I run a small tournament. $20 buy in 1k chips. Rebuys until the first break around an hour in. My add on is $20 for 2500 chips and we do it at the first break. I’ve been doing it this way for a while and it seems to work fine.

How many players do the extras? Does it seems to lenghten your tourney?

 

[brocck]

How many players do the extras? Does it seems to lenghten your tourney?

I usually have between 10-15 people, I’d say 7-9 of them usually add on. I think this works well with my game because it’s more of a turbo with 10 minute blinds so it does add some time to the tournament, but not much. I’d say it adds an extra 30 minutes to my game. But the blinds get high pretty quickly late game.

 

[johnnycnote]

%0% of BI for 50% of thestarting stack?

50% of the BI amount for the same number of chips. $50 for 10,000 BI, $25 for 10,000 AO

 

[ngmcs8203]

Most players will add on if the amount of chips brings them back into a playable stack for the next few rounds and the cost isn’t crazy.

Rebuys should be allowed anytime up to the end of the first break. So if someone wants to rebuy and then addon at the break they can. If they get knocked out in the second round and want to rebuy make sure they aren’t allowed to wait until the break to rebuy.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Here’s an older thread that talks about it https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/rebuys-whats-a-good-structure-for-a-tournament.31872/

 

[BGinGA]

Our structures usually offer re-buys (bad beat /cooler insurance), but seldom offer add-ons (primarily short-stack enhancers imo).

Typical re-buy cost/stack is usualy the same as the initial buy-in (but can certainly vary both up and down, pending venue). Typical add-on cost/stack can range from 20% to 100% of initial buy-in (for both cost and size), but is not necessarily always the same for both. The cost/stack ratio might be 50% cost for 100% chips, 20% cost for 20% chips, 100% cost for 100% chips, or just about any combo.

It all depends on the specific goals desired to be accomplished (or avoided) by the add-on, and how much additional playing time that can be accomodated in the overall tournament time window.

Our events typically have 100%/100% cost/stack re-buys (one purchase per player along with the player's forfeited re-buy button). When offered, a 25%/50% cost/stack add-on is optional at the end of the re-buy period (which is usually when the event is 20%-33% completed).

Players can also redeem their unused re-buy button for a free 20% stack add-on, giving the re-buy button intrinsic value (it also discourages excessively wild early play, while placating players who dislike re-buy events in general).

 

[maloviz]

Our structures usually offer re-buys (bad beat /cooler insurance), but seldom offer add-ons (primarily short-stack enhancers imo).

Typical re-buy cost/stack is usualy the same as the initial buy-in (but can certainly vary both up and down, pending venue). Typical add-on cost/stack can range from 20% to 100% of initial buy-in (for both cost and size), but is not necessarily always the same for both. The cost/stack ratio might be 50% cost for 100% chips, 20% cost for 20% chips, 100% cost for 100% chips, or just about any combo.

It all depends on the specific goals desired to be accomplished (or avoided) by the add-on, and how much additional playing time that can be accomodated in the overall tournament time window.

Our events typically have 100%/100% cost/stack re-buys (one purchase per player along with the player's forfeited re-buy button). When offered, a 25%/50% cost/stack add-on is optional at the end of the re-buy period (which is usually when the event is 20%-33% completed).

Players can also redeem their unused re-buy button for a free 20% stack add-on, giving the re-buy button intrinsic value (it also discourages excessively wild early play, while placating players who dislike re-buy events in general).

How do you like to handle rebuy/addons when a bounty is involved? I know it's probably "best" to just not have either in a bounty event, but my players seemed to like the bounty last time we did it and I always like to allow at least 1 rebuy for "bad beat/cooler insurance" as you put it.

 

[tooth_doc]

Our structures usually offer re-buys (bad beat /cooler insurance), but seldom offer add-ons (primarily short-stack enhancers imo).

Typical re-buy cost/stack is usualy the same as the initial buy-in (but can certainly vary both up and down, pending venue). Typical add-on cost/stack can range from 20% to 100% of initial buy-in (for both cost and size), but is not necessarily always the same for both. The cost/stack ratio might be 50% cost for 100% chips, 20% cost for 20% chips, 100% cost for 100% chips, or just about any combo.

It all depends on the specific goals desired to be accomplished (or avoided) by the add-on, and how much additional playing time that can be accomodated in the overall tournament time window.

Our events typically have 100%/100% cost/stack re-buys (one purchase per player along with the player's forfeited re-buy button). When offered, a 25%/50% cost/stack add-on is optional at the end of the re-buy period (which is usually when the event is 20%-33% completed).

Players can also redeem their unused re-buy button for a free 20% stack add-on, giving the re-buy button intrinsic value (it also discourages excessively wild early play, while placating players who dislike re-buy events in general).

Love this.
I'll pitch it to my group and we will play around with the percentages.
Thank you all so much. This PCF community is the BEST!!!!

 

[ekricket]

Love this.
I'll pitch it to my group and we will play around with the percentages.
Thank you all so much. This PCF community is the BEST!!!!

We do a T10,000 with a 5000 addon/rebuy.

When you get your stack you have a 5000 chip. It’s not in play unless you get felted before the first break, then it’s your rebuy. If you hang onto it until break it becomes active and it’s your addon.

Gives everyone a safety net for an early cooler and it helps make the hosts job easier. A lot easier.
It’s very rare for someone to use the rebuy anymore. Everyone’s gotten better and would rather have the value later in the tournament.

 

[BGinGA]

We do a T10,000 with a 5000 addon/rebuy.

When you get your stack you have a 5000 chip. It’s not in play unless you get felted before the first break, then it’s your rebuy. If you hang onto it until break it becomes active and it’s your addon.

Gives everyone a safety net for an early cooler and it helps make the hosts job easier. A lot easier.
It’s very rare for someone to use the rebuy anymore. Everyone’s gotten better and would rather have the value later in the tournament.

We used to use a similar approach ‐ 10k in chips plus a 10k plaque that wasn't in play until activated. Could be turned into chips either prior to start, during first break, or when felted. Works very well.

 

[buzzmonkey]

Do any of you allow surrenders at the end of the rebuy period? I've done this and it works pretty well. Players can surrender their current short stack and rebuy for a full starting stack for a full rebuy amount.

 

[BGinGA]

How do you like to handle rebuy/addons when a bounty is involved? I know it's probably "best" to just not have either in a bounty event, but my players seemed to like the bounty last time we did it and I always like to allow at least 1 rebuy for "bad beat/cooler insurance" as you put it.

We do it several different ways, pending format:

A. no bounty in play

B. bounty chip is tied to the stack; a felted player loses bounty chip and re-buys include a new bounty chip (sometimes an optional purchase)

C. bounty is tied to the player; a felted player who re-buys keeps his bounty chip until eliminated from the tournament

D. dual bounty chips; one is like example B above (and often optional), and the other (usually less expensive and mandatory) is like example C above.

 

[BGinGA]

Do any of you allow surrenders at the end of the rebuy period? I've done this and it works pretty well. Players can surrender their current short stack and rebuy for a full starting stack for a full rebuy amount.

Surrender option is great. Eliminates the all-in bingo when down to a near-meaningless number of chips.

 

[tooth_doc]

Surrender option is great. Eliminates the all-in bingo when down to a near-meaningless number of chips.

How do surrenders work? Do the chips that are surrendered go into the pot, or are they just removed. How low does a stack have to be before a surrender is allowed?

 

[buzzmonkey]

How do surrenders work? Do the chips that are surrendered go into the pot, or are they just removed. How low does a stack have to be before a surrender is allowed?

Comes off the table. Any stack can be surrendered.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

We do a T10,000 with a 5000 addon/rebuy.

When you get your stack you have a 5000 chip. It’s not in play unless you get felted before the first break, then it’s your rebuy. If you hang onto it until break it becomes active and it’s your addon.

Gives everyone a safety net for an early cooler and it helps make the hosts job easier. A lot easier.
It’s very rare for someone to use the rebuy anymore. Everyone’s gotten better and would rather have the value later in the tournament.

I've been doing the same thing with my casual tourney group for years, and it works very well. We call it a "pre-buy" tourney. T10K to start plus a rebuy chip, which gets you a T10K rebuy anytime you're felted in the first hour, or a T10K add-on at the end of the first hour.

It's a great compromise for a group that is split between loving and hating rebuys. And for a casual weekly tourney, it also provides early bust-out protection so that you don't reserve a night for poker and end up going home in 15 minutes after an early cooler or bad beat.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

As far as add-ons in general go, I agree with @BGinGA that the amount is highly dependent on timing, player base, and goals.

I run a monthly charity fundraiser tourney where we typically get three full tables of very, VERY casual players. We have only three hours to finish, so we run a hyper-turbo structure. Here's what we offer:

• Players start with T5K (50bb) for $30,
• Rebuys are available for the first hour at $20 for T5K,
• At the end of the first hour, we offer a tiered add-on: $5 for T5K, $10 for T10K, $15 for T20K.

That add-on may sound like a lot, but because of the fast structure, T20K is only 10bb at that point.

 

[digirati]

Our structures usually offer re-buys (bad beat /cooler insurance), but seldom offer add-ons (primarily short-stack enhancers imo).

Typical re-buy cost/stack is usualy the same as the initial buy-in (but can certainly vary both up and down, pending venue). Typical add-on cost/stack can range from 20% to 100% of initial buy-in (for both cost and size), but is not necessarily always the same for both. The cost/stack ratio might be 50% cost for 100% chips, 20% cost for 20% chips, 100% cost for 100% chips, or just about any combo.

It all depends on the specific goals desired to be accomplished (or avoided) by the add-on, and how much additional playing time that can be accomodated in the overall tournament time window.

Our events typically have 100%/100% cost/stack re-buys (one purchase per player along with the player's forfeited re-buy button). When offered, a 25%/50% cost/stack add-on is optional at the end of the re-buy period (which is usually when the event is 20%-33% completed).

Players can also redeem their unused re-buy button for a free 20% stack add-on, giving the re-buy button intrinsic value (it also discourages excessively wild early play, while placating players who dislike re-buy events in general).

These are some great ideas.

 

[Grimalkin]

After reading some of the advise here, I wanted to incorporate a bounty, but also keep the rebuys, but I don't want to charge for another bounty for the rebuy.

I've settled on running a "prebuy" tournament, where every player gets a "reload" chip that can be used either prior to start, during first break, or when felted. (20K starting stack, 20K reload stack), and they also get a bounty chip. Gives players the option to have that insurance in case they get felted in the first 2 hours.

The bounty doesn't become active until the player uses their reload chip. Seems pretty cut and dry. I'll try it out and see how it goes. Thanks again for everyone's input on this forum, lots of great ideas and insight.

 

[Taghkanic]

I used to do a much more modest add-on, percentage-wise, also with only a modest chip bump.

The add-on was only 20% of the original buyin, and the chips represented only ~8BB (at that stage of the tourney… in raw value about 1/3rd the starting stacks).

I viewed this size add-on as more of a way of helping short stacks last a bit longer. The add-on came usually around 1.5-2 hours into the tourney. That way everyone was likely to get more like 2.5-3 hours of play minimum.

It helped attendance, I think, since it was rare for someone to be out so early that it wasn’t worth the trip. It also modestly boosted the prize pool.

Generally about 2/3rds of players took the small add-on. The bigger stacks often passed on if (a tactical mistake IMHO, even when way up).

 

[Taghkanic]

P.S. I would also say that the size of the add-on might need adjusting depending whether you allow rebuys/re-entries before the break.

 

[Preditor]

I run a $30 BI, T25 tourney with a 10K starting stack. I just implemented an 5K add-on to our last event. I think what BGinGA said is right; it depends on your goals.

My goals?

• Get nitty players to play more before break; group is largely new at poker and were playing super tight.
• Increase the prize pool without raising the buy-in.
• Have an alternative to a re-buy. People were not busting out because they were playing so nitty, and also because we take breaks every 3 levels instead of every 4 (I want to change this eventually, but not right now).

So to accomplish those goals, I lowered rebuys to $20 (to compensate for blind level increases), and implemented a $10 add-on. One game in, and it worked. We had no rebuys, but 3 add-ons. Increased the prize pool by 9%. And for me at least, the tournament didn't really go much longer, about 4:20 compared to 4:00 hours, but we also had 11 people up from 6-8 (I just want it done no later than 5 hours).

Eventually, I want to raise the buy-in to $40 and do away with the add-on. But the game is still new and we're trying to grow organically, so an add-on seemed a better middle ground to accomplish all of those immediately rather than make a drastic change right now.