How is this not on a poker chip already? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Himewad
- Start date
I’m sure the clarification is appreciated. But respectfully, you don’t need to know anything about farming to understand theft. And if I’m wrong that reproducing somebody else’s art for profit is theft, please clarify for me.
I guess I need to chime in here.
The “royalty” isn’t buying the rights to the original art. I based it off an existing design and made very minor tweaks so that it would be a fun button for anyone that wants one. It takes longer than some might think, and I figured a little fee helps with all the work involved re-creating the art.
I’ve done a shit-ton of design here for folks for free, but not looking to “profit” for the time to make these happen.
I hereby relinquish any fee, royalty, whatever for any of the Pompous Ass buttons produced. I hope that satisfies all interested parties.
The “royalty” isn’t buying the rights to the original art. I based it off an existing design and made very minor tweaks so that it would be a fun button for anyone that wants one. It takes longer than some might think, and I figured a little fee helps with all the work involved re-creating the art.
I’ve done a shit-ton of design here for folks for free, but not looking to “profit” for the time to make these happen.
I hereby relinquish any fee, royalty, whatever for any of the Pompous Ass buttons produced. I hope that satisfies all interested parties.
TKEUofM
Flush
I'm pretty sure that almost every Dealer button being sold on this forum is based on some other original image. We are making "tributes" inside a small community for private use. I don't see anything egregious here. Nobody is mass producing thousands upon thousands of these buttons and selling them on their own website/eBay/Amazon/wherever for huge profits.
Need the fun police to just chill a bit.
Need the fun police to just chill a bit.
LotsOfChips
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It isn't the use of "Pompous Ass" that seems to infringe here, more the blatant stealing, er, I mean ripping off, er I mean borrowing, er, I mean paying tribute to the artwork of the donkey in the suit. So yeah, copyright, trademark, yes there is a difference. Sorry if I got the wording wrong.
LotsOfChips
Flush
No beef (or pig, as previously mentioned). Just trying to understand the world I now live in. When I grew up, royalties were something that was paid to creators of original designs or artwork. People that copied or slightly modified that design or artwork and then sold said artwork on products weren't normally considered "owners", and certainly weren't entitled to royalties, at least unless the original artwork owner was also compensated. Example: Mark Knopfler ensured that a good chunk of the royalties for "Money for Nothing" went to Sting, because a few of the opening bars to the song sounded like (and were based on) "Don't Stand So Close To Me".
Now in today's world it seems that someone can plagiarize someone else's work, and charge "royalties" no less. Maybe if you called it a "Designer fee" or "Artwork fee", or just buried the artwork cost in the overall price, it wouldn't seem so odd to me. But it does seem to be a different world these days, so I guess that I will have to learn to adapt.
Well, I'm guessing: that the original artist, and the person who commissioned him/her to design that artwork might have an opinion on that. As a hypothetical, if I took the design that you have "created" and changed the suits of the cards, and then started selling products other than dealer buttons (say Cards Mold chips), might you and your designer be just a little miffed?
No, not those exact words. But your response that they could have a sample of the product that is ripping off, er, I mean stealing, er, I mean paying tribute to their artwork and then being sold commercially (including charging a royalty that isn't even going to them) as full payment for use of said artwork, well yeah, that is a pretty close approximation to "stuff it".
Hey., I'm pretty sure that most people in the world (including me) have purchased pirated/counterfeit products of some sort or another, or have downloaded music/software/etc. from some less than reputable Internet source. And if you aren't actually creating and selling the pirated/counterfeit products, or turning around and repackaging the music/software and selling it commercially, then sure, fill your boots, kind sir! The law is probably not going to affect you (although it could - just ask anyone who downloaded "The Hurt Locker" and got sued for tens of thousands of dollars)
Selling stuff commercially that is a blatant ripoff of someone else's work, however, may be more likely to expose you to legal (civil or criminal) jeopardy. That was the point of my first post. If you're okay with that, well, again, fill your boots!
TLDR: Charging "royalty" fees on copied works just seems wrong on so many levels.
OP
OP
so you’re complaining about the terminology. Got it. Well, as has already been stated here, the royalty / design fee / scandalous money grab has been removed from the group buy for these dealer buttons. You can fly your “winning” flag high. Congratulations. Seriously, these are just simple dealer buttons that I thought people would enjoy. Thanks for throwing a huge wet blanket over the whole thing.
LotsOfChips
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You’re welcome
chipinla
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You’re using a cartoon of Daffy Duck as your avatar. Did you draw that? If not, should we assume you found the original artist and got their permission to use it in a public forum?
Boom.
For the rest of us who love the group buy, can you at least keep the design fee in our invoice to help cover the time the designers spent.
LotsOfChips
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Yup, I (and others here) are using images in avatars that were taken from the Internet, without contacting the owner. Does it open me up to legal jeopardy? Possibly. If the lawyers call, I can say truthfully that it is for personal, non-commercial purposes. Will that make a difference? I dunno.
And I am aware of the seeming hypocrisy here, but my earlier point was that using images for personal use exposes the person to some degree of risk, but selling those images increases the risk exponentially.
Charging royalties for copied images probably adds to the risk as well
chipinla
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It’s not “seeming” hypocritical… it IS hypocritical.
What happened to your avatar? LOLLOL.
NotRealNameNoSir
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dpeks13
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I believe Andy Warhol has already clarified that matter very thoroughly..
As I pointed out in a similar thread recently, that exact issue is before the Supreme Court as we speak. So maybe hold off on those shades til we get a decision.I believe Andy Warhol has already clarified that matter very thoroughly..
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/12/1127508725/prince-andy-warhol-supreme-court-copyright
chipinla
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Millions of dollars in royalties for a famous photographer and artist VS $20 in dealer button royalties seems pretty different. Again, look at literally anything on ETSY.
So if they’re breaking laws all over Etsy, we should do it here too?
OP
OP
chipinla
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Your avatar is the same as the Daffy Duck avatar that was being used. Did you create the Dunes chip/logo? Did you get permission to post that picture from the original artist? It’s the same thing. Where does it stop?
Boom.
If I hire someone to come and paint a couple Disney characters in my child's room, they're not doing it for free...but are violating something, I'm sure. It's a matter of scale. If that mural painter went national with advertising, I'm sure they would draw the ire of Disney, but doing a copyrighted image once in a while on a small scale will fly under the radar. You decide if you'd have the painter replicate that image or you prefer someone come up with an original character (that your kid asks," Dad, who's that?) .
I have had lots of people ask me via PM things like, "can you make me a dealer button or chip that looks like XYZ", and ask if they can send me a few $ for my time. Most often if it's easy, I'll do it for nothing, but if it takes a while, I won't refuse. They then order a few and sell off the extras here. That small amount for my time gets passed along.
With a group buy, it's similar, but the few $ was just spread out a few cents for each one. I guess it's the scale that has drawn the attention. I always felt doing artwork here was small scale for a few folks, but I guess it's bigger than I thought.
I will say I'm far more likely to take requests only via PM going forward, so if that was the intention, well played.
.I have had lots of people ask me via PM things like, "can you make me a dealer button or chip that looks like XYZ", and ask if they can send me a few $ for my time. Most often if it's easy, I'll do it for nothing, but if it takes a while, I won't refuse. They then order a few and sell off the extras here. That small amount for my time gets passed along.
With a group buy, it's similar, but the few $ was just spread out a few cents for each one. I guess it's the scale that has drawn the attention. I always felt doing artwork here was small scale for a few folks, but I guess it's bigger than I thought.
I will say I'm far more likely to take requests only via PM going forward, so if that was the intention, well played.
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There is nothing wrong with asking for a little money for your time, no matter how long or short it takes.If I hire someone to come and paint a couple Disney characters in my child's room, they're not doing it for free...but are violating something, I'm sure. It's a matter of scale. If that mural painter went national with advertising, I'm sure they would draw the ire of Disney, but doing a copyrighted image once in a while on a small scale will fly under the radar. You decide if you'd have the painter replicate that image or you prefer someone come up with an original character (that your kid asks," Dad, who's that?)
I have had lots of people ask me via PM things like, "can you make me a dealer button or chip that looks like XYZ", and ask if they can send me a few $ for my time. Most often if it's easy, I'll do it for nothing, but if it takes a while, I won't refuse. They then order a few and sell off the extras here. That small amount for my time gets passed along.
With a group buy, it's similar, but the few $ was just spread out a few cents for each one. I guess it's the scale that has drawn the attention. I always felt doing artwork here was small scale for a few folks, but I guess it's bigger than I thought.
I will say I'm far more likely to take requests only via PM going forward, so if that was the intention, well played.
I have a feeling that the screaming from the few Debbie Downers here have no problem with Etsy, or whatever other sites sell similar products.
Look no further than their avatars.
Yeah, I’m pretty comfortable posting my own picture.
Are you kidding me? Of course I have a problem if similar stuff goes on at Etsy. But I’ve never bought a single thing from Etsy so it’s not my problem.
And it’s not really my problem here. I don’t go around PCF pointing out every possible violation of IP law. But when the topic comes up, yeah I’ll share my opinion. Especially when people start gabgibg up on the guy who raised the issue (and who’s right, by the way.).
I speed on the highway all the time. If somebody points out that I’m breaking the law, I don’t argue that it’s okay, because everybody else is doing it, and I don’t ridicule them for being a Debbie downer. I just say yup, I choose to drive fast and accept the possible consequences.
dpeks13
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All fun and games until they show up in your rear view mirror
I wonder if this is a generational thing?
Like, did people who grew up in a time when you could copy, paste, and print literally anything in the world, did they just grow up assuming they could do anything they want with those images?
Not trying to be a dick here, it’s a serious question.
When I was growing up, I worked at a copy center. And when we got a full color laser copier, we had a list of regulations too long for anybody to read, telling us what we couldn’t copy. Basically if it wasn’t your original work, we weren’t copying it. Now maybe that was corporate being overly cautious, but I’m pretty sure they were just trying to follow the letter of the law.
I don’t care if people here follow letter of the law or not. Just don’t tell me that speeding is legal, or laugh at anybody who points out that it isn’t.
Like, did people who grew up in a time when you could copy, paste, and print literally anything in the world, did they just grow up assuming they could do anything they want with those images?
Not trying to be a dick here, it’s a serious question.
When I was growing up, I worked at a copy center. And when we got a full color laser copier, we had a list of regulations too long for anybody to read, telling us what we couldn’t copy. Basically if it wasn’t your original work, we weren’t copying it. Now maybe that was corporate being overly cautious, but I’m pretty sure they were just trying to follow the letter of the law.
I don’t care if people here follow letter of the law or not. Just don’t tell me that speeding is legal, or laugh at anybody who points out that it isn’t.
There is a saying…
“People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”
When holier than thou starts pointing out how evil this dealer button group buy is and it’s illegal, while the entire time violating said copyright issues himself in his avatar, it’s going to rub people the wrong way, and piss off even more people.
A better word of advice would be to continue scrolling on by, keeping opinions to yourself.
You can pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself for sticking up for holier than thou, but in the end, you probably should be doing the exact same thing, scrolling on by.
A more eloquent quote to describe the Debbie Downers and Holier than Thou when they see something that they don’t like, all the while, themselves violating the exact things they are bitching about, can be summed up by Abraham Lincoln.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
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