How do you guy manage the bank?

CraigT78

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I don't think it's the host's job. I think everyone has to make personal decisions. Adults can choose how to spend their money and it's not my place to judge.

Choosing to loan another player money is also a personal decision. I simply find that the cash people bring to a game is a good proxy for what they are prepared to lose. My decision not to lend is less about the confidence i'll be repaid or the hassle of chasing down debt, and more about me not wanting to enable someone to overextend. I do not care is someone else loans money to another player. That's their personal decision.
Ah, got it. I don't loan either. But would you let someone Venmo you $500 at the table? Say they were already stuck three buy-in.
 

StevieG

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Ah, got it. I don't loan either. But would you let someone Venmo you $500 at the table? Say they were already stuck three buy-in.

This is like a poker question. And just as poker questions need context (actions on all streets, stack sizes, history with opponent, etc.) this also depends on circumstances.

Almost certainly, yes.

But it would depend. Would I do it for the Afghan war vet who plays with us once in a blue moon and works in the service industry? Probably not.

Even for the guys with the country club memberships, though, I am going to think twice about this when it happens the third or fourth week in a row.

You can still be a good host, though, and you can still treat people like adults.

"Hey, man, maybe it's just not your night?"

"Hey, let's just grab a drink outside a second."

Ultimately if pressed I'll probably go ahead with the transaction.

But I have control over the invite list, and they might not get a follow up invitation.
 

CraigT78

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This is like a poker question. And just as poker questions need context (actions on all streets, stack sizes, history with opponent, etc.) this also depends on circumstances.

Almost certainly, yes.

But it would depend. Would I do it for the Afghan war vet who plays with us once in a blue moon and works in the service industry? Probably not.

Even for the guys with the country club memberships, though, I am going to think twice about this when it happens the third or fourth week in a row.

You can still be a good host, though, and you can still treat people like adults.

"Hey, man, maybe it's just not your night?"

"Hey, let's just grab a drink outside a second."

Ultimately if pressed I'll probably go ahead with the transaction.

But I have control over the invite list, and they might not get a follow up invitation.
Okay sure, context matters. I didn't consider this. In my game, I'll take venmo. I'm not worried that Joey Money, the accounting partner, is in for 6 buy ins as he stumbles back to his million dollar home. Now if Bill the pizza delivery guy is in the same boat, I would tent to agree.
 

MathijsVS

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Why is the the hosts job? Serious question.

Because most people who play home games do so because they think it's fun.

Having someone I know play wildly beyond their means would not add to the fun for me and might even put a very bleak feeling over the entire night.

IF you're in a professional room/casino: you do you. If you play with friends: look out for each other. It's what friends do.
 

CraigT78

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Because most people who play home games do so because they think it's fun.

Having someone I know play wildly beyond their means would not add to the fun for me and might even put a very bleak feeling over the entire night.

IF you're in a professional room/casino: you do you. If you play with friends: look out for each other. It's what friends do.
But how do you know it's outside their means? How much is too much?
 

StevieG

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But how do you know it's outside their means? How much is too much?

It is not a place where you can have certainty.

Using previous examples, the vet working a a bartender may be doing great, biking to work, keeping expenses low, and have plenty of money to spew at the table. The country club guy could be up to his eyeballs in tuition, car payments, and other monthly expenses.

But you can read people. And you can certainly see when people are asking you to float them their buy ins, and late getting you money.

And again, even if you want to let them make their own destructive decisions, my decision is that I am not in the credit business.
 

Bluegrass Poker

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We go straight cash. I will carry a marker because I only have people I trust. Most players bring enough cash to go deep and will also offer cash for Venmo transfer or someone will usually spot them. Last week we had a player go through two $300 buy ins, then borrowed $700 from me, and also $1K from another player. He came storming back and paid all markers at the end of the night. We play a crazy game, lol.
This sound like the game I used to host with a group of really close friends. Money flying everywhere. Players loaning to other players all night and by 3 or 4 am chips and Benjamins all over the table.

There are certain things you can do and allow in a home game with a a really tight group of friends that you can’t do in other home games. We all trusted each other and no one ever got stiffed. There were a couple times players ended up stuck owing someone $7-800 and took a little longer to pay off than normal. But that was usually because they didn’t want their wives seeing a couple max ATM transactions on consecutive days.
 

bsdunbar1

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I am a combination of @Rhodeman77 & @CraigT78
I keep enough cash to cover any credit I extend.
If I didn't extend credit and/or accept electronic payments we would have less money in play.

It is 100% driven off the players though. I have the same crew every week, I wouldn't extend credit to a new player.
It is common knowledge that if we don't settle up at the end of the night we'll settle up before or on the next week.
Anyone I extend credit to I am 100% not worried about getting paid back.
There are a shit load of reasons they don't have the right amount of cash from time to time, some is laziness, some it legit.

The only scenario that annoys me is when you come to play and don't have enough for ANY buy-ins. (We play tournaments first so cash games are secondary after the tourney and not everyone plays cash when they play the tourney). If you do that more than once I belittle you enough that you don't want to do it again.

@Luke Parriott (gingerbeard) wouldn't be able to play if he couldn't venmo me 4 times each week for chips.
 

MathijsVS

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But how do you know it's outside their means? How much is too much?

There's not an easy way of determining that, but let's be fair here: if someone's your friend, you know this kind of stuff.

It's also not about a specific amount, but we've all seen people go off a cliff, suffering loss after loss and rebuy after rebuy. If you're among friends: be nice.
If you're at a professional venue: happy fishing.
 

Eriks

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I’ve always found that requiring players to buy in with cash is a proxy for making sure they play within their means.

Depends on how far away nearest ATM is.
 
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JustinInMN

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I operate on cash, but I will take venmo/crypto whatever and put cash in the bank on that player's behalf. I am usually good for a few hundred to do that for the players. I think it's the only way to operate in any sort of hybrid situation.

When I hosted I pretty much did what you have laid out. Very rarely did I ever have a banking error, but that's also in part because lots of the players were also hosts so we tended to watch out for each lther as well.

Sounds like the stakes aren't that big (My guess is around a $1k bank, maybe less), which means that people should be bringing enough cash for two or three buy ins. The fact that people arent coming to games without enough cash at those stakes might be a sign that the games might not be "healthy".

If buy ins were larger $500+, then I understand the need/want to go a more cashless route.

Problem is those large amounts on any e-transfer platform will gain scrutiny or run afowl of limits at some point.
 

Mr Winberg

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At my games nobody pays up front. I document all buy-ins and top-ups and settle electronically when cashing out using a Swedish venmo-ish app. So if you buy-in 4 times and top up 3, it's still just 1 transaction: Either from me to you or from you to me depending on if you're in the black or red.

The buy-ins and top-ups all need to be in increments of 50kr (~$5). The reason for requiring this is that after every buy-in, top-up or cashout I compare the ledgers with the empty racks to make sure all is accounted for. Ever since I started with this my bank has never been off. :)

In my opinion this approach is more convenient than cash. It also allows you to trace errors better if you make any.
 

JustinInMN

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At my games nobody pays up front. I document all buy-ins and top-ups and settle electronically when cashing out using a Swedish venmo-ish app. So if you buy-in 4 times and top up 3, it's still just 1 transaction: Either from me to you or from you to me depending on if you're in the black or red.

The buy-ins and top-ups all need to be in increments of 50kr (~$5). The reason for requiring this is that after every buy-in, top-up or cashout I compare the ledgers with the empty racks to make sure all is accounted for. Ever since I started with this my bank has never been off. :)

In my opinion this approach is more convenient than cash. It also allows you to trace errors better if you make any.

If you can get all players to do this, I can see where its convenient. But if in a hybrid situation, I think you have to pick one cashout method either way.
 

bsdunbar1

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Do let the hammered guy keep buying in and losing his $?

I had a guy last week buy in a few times for a few hundred. He was hammered and losing is $$ because of obvious hammered play.
another player criticized me for letting him continue and lose his $$.

If he can afford it or not is not an issue.

Do you keep giving him chips??
 

StevieG

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Do let the hammered guy keep buying in and losing his $?

Good one.

Almost certainly yes. Our game has a culture of drinking, and so this is one area where it is on the player to look after themselves.

That exact line of "whoa, that guy is a puddle" has not been crossed yet, but if it did I could see the reaction being different. We would probably just get them home at that point.
 

MegaTon44

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I run a monthly game with 30-40+ people and this is what I've seen successful:
  • One person manages the money and all buyins/cashouts. I have my main table dealer do this, with me supporting (I would manage with no dealer)
  • Cash only. If you don't have it and someone else can spare it, Venmo them and exchange for physical money. Poker bank doesn't work on credit.
  • If no one can spare the green, take your ass to the ATM.
 
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CraigT78

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Do let the hammered guy keep buying in and losing his $?

I had a guy last week buy in a few times for a few hundred. He was hammered and losing is $$ because of obvious hammered play.
another player criticized me for letting him continue and lose his $$.

If he can afford it or not is not an issue.

Do you keep giving him chips??
Do you stop the hammered guy when he is running hot playing any two cards?
 

ArielVer18

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At my games nobody pays up front. I document all buy-ins and top-ups and settle electronically when cashing out using a Swedish venmo-ish app. So if you buy-in 4 times and top up 3, it's still just 1 transaction: Either from me to you or from you to me depending on if you're in the black or red.

Do you also try to minimize the number of transactions? For example, if at the end of the night Adam won 500 and Bobby lost 500, can Bobby simply send 500 directly to Adam without going through you?
 

TheWhat

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No one is running a tab on the table. You buy in, or you don't.

Has honestly never came up though, always try to let new players know the deal. They can shiw up prepared. We have perhaps half our core group that might go in for 2 Buy Ins, and probably only another 3 players who might get up to the 3 or 4 Buy In level. Individuals can make their own loans if needed. Never had a problem with the cash out.

We play a "scrubs pot" at the end of the game, to eliminate the need for change (Although we have it) everyone basically cashes out to the nearest $5 increment, rest goes in the middle, and we deal hands face up, winner takes it down.
 

ArielVer18

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No one is running a tab on the table. You buy in, or you don't.

Has honestly never came up though, always try to let new players know the deal. They can shiw up prepared. We have perhaps half our core group that might go in for 2 Buy Ins, and probably only another 3 players who might get up to the 3 or 4 Buy In level. Individuals can make their own loans if needed. Never had a problem with the cash out.
Cash only is how I've ran my home game for over a decade. However, I do recognize a cultural shift towards cashless so I want to be able to adapt to the changing times.
 

Mr Winberg

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If you can get all players to do this, I can see where its convenient. But if in a hybrid situation, I think you have to pick one cashout method either way.
I totally agree! I did a mix once several years ago, never happening again. It's not a math problem you want to be solving when you're drunk. But it's no problem, nobody uses cash in Sweden anymore.
 

bsdunbar1

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Do you stop the hammered guy when he is running hot playing any two cards?

That was my EXACT argument for letting him play. He has crushed our souls completely hammered in the past.
He was having a good time and enjoying himself.
He actually borrowed $200 from me, didn't know the next day when he asked me what he owed. He sent Venmo with "Good Times" in the comment. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 

Coyote

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I 'm relatively old, but still so grumpy as if I were a lot older, so cash only in the bank.:LOL: :laugh:
Youngsters can wire whatever shit or money they like among them, provided it lands as cash in the bank:)
 

Mr Winberg

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Do you also try to minimize the number of transactions? For example, if at the end of the night Adam won 500 and Bobby lost 500, can Bobby simply send 500 directly to Adam without going through you?
No, I don't. I mean sure, if Bob and Adam settle and let me know, then fine, I'll draw a line over their ledgers. But I won't initiate it.

I think it's one of those things that seem neat in theory, but in practice it takes longer time to figure out the smartest transactions than to just do them one by one. The number of transactions is just the number of players minus 1. Also, it's free and simple, you just send the money to a phone number, so there's really no point in minimizing transactions.

Another thing is that people leave at different times during the night. A cash game with 15 players usually ends with 3 or 4 drunken bastards bluffing each other at 3am, so even if I would want to minimize the nr of transactions I couldn't.
 

StevieG

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We call borrowing "going on the plate!" I put their name on a paper plate along with a running tally of the amount owed.

We play a "scrubs pot" at the end of the game, to eliminate the need for change (Although we have it) everyone basically cashes out to the nearest $5 increment, rest goes in the middle, and we deal hands face up, winner takes it down.

Can I also say that these are the things I genuinely love about home poker.

These little traditions and practices and terminology that arise naturally from playing together over time, taking something tedious (change at the end of the night) and making it fun.

Just wonderful.
 
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