How do you guy manage the bank?

Poker Zombie

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We rarely have someone that needs to use Venmo, but it happens. I ordered the Canadian plaques to use as a marker/reminder for players that need to use Venmo, because it is becoming more common.

...and like Frogzilla, it uses something that looks better than a piece of paper.
 
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We rarely have someone that needs to use Venmo, but it happens. I ordered the Canadian plaques to use as a marker/reminder for players that need to use Venmo, because it is becoming more common.

...and like Frogzilla, it uses something that looks better than a piece of paper.
But not better than a paper plate. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

20200321_230511.jpg
 

BearMetal

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I switched over to a locked money box that has about $1000 in it to cover the game. Most people just PayPal me and I take money from the box and place it into the special compartment for that nights game.

Because they can now send me $25 easily, I can use my pesky $25 chips much more easily. I make sure I have 100s of $5s in the bank.
 

DarkHelmet55

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My game we have always done cash and borrowing from other players could happen but was rare. Now that we have been virtual playing for a few months and Venmo was the tool of choice, i might be inclined to front those who run out the cash if they wanted instead of just leaving. The only problem I have is the Venmo limit in the virtual game. we play now. At times i have had to wait a few days because of the weekly payout limit. And im only talking about a .50 1.00 blind with a max buy in of 100 at a time. Surprising how quickly it adds up.
 

BGinGA

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I've always been a cash kinda guy. No venmo, don't use my phone for payments of any kind, show up at poker games with however much cash I'm willing to lose in that session.

But the cash vs cashless game has strong points both ways.

Cash games have no paper trail (unless you create one; not advised), but there is always a risk of theft, robbery, or confiscation. The bigger the cash pool, the bigger the risk.

Cashless games leave an electronic trail, but the game can't get robbed for huge sums or raided and the cash on premises confiscated by the authorities.

Which is worse?
 

BearMetal

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I've always been a cash kinda guy. No venmo, don't use my phone for payments of any kind, show up at poker games with however much cash I'm willing to lose in that session.

But the cash vs cashless game has strong points both ways.

Cash games have no paper trail (unless you create one; not advised), but there is always a risk of theft, robbery, or confiscation. The bigger the cash pool, the bigger the risk.

Cashless games leave an electronic trail, but the game can't get robbed for huge sums or raided and the cash on premises confiscated by the authorities.

Which is worse?

Electronic paper trail? Only if you put in the comment's what it's for. Here's a contribution for my game on Friday:
I am happy to give money to the Bronies Defense Fund. You shouldn’t have gotten fired because of your love of a girls cartoon. Stay strong brother.

... lovely people I play with. Still - no real paper trail there :)
 

StevieG

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Electronic paper trail? Only if you put in the comment's what it's for.

I would not count on that kind of superficial subterfuge stopping anyone determined to make a case.

Now "determined to make a case" is the thing. I think the risk of law enforcement seriously bothering with a home game in the middle of a pandemic is small.

But the exchanges themselves (PayPal, Venmo, etc.) at any time might decided to look for activity like this and ToS people.

Either way not a non-zero risk.

(also, Superficial Subterfuge sounds like the name of a 70s concept album)
 

TheWhat

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Forgive my ignorance here, but the concern with raids is tied to the site / host raking the game? Or are things different in the US?
 

StevieG

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Forgive my ignorance here, but the concern with raids is tied to the site / host raking the game? Or are things different in the US?

Yeah, rake is generally the thing that is going to draw attention.

But patchwork legislation puts even unraked casual games at risk in many jurisdictions, should someone with ties to law enforcement feel a need to act.
 

Mr Winberg

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Electronic paper trail? Only if you put in the comment's what it's for. Here's a contribution for my game on Friday:
Here are some classic transaction comments I've received :)

"Your mother doesn't have Venmo"

"Returning the down payment. The target was dead when I found him, I cannot take credit"

"Cocaine, 2 grams"

"Alright, I'll pay you back, but I'm quite sure the hamster's leg wasn't broken when you bought him"

"Debt for illegal gambling"


This all after I started asking my players to leave an empty comment! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
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Mr Winberg

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I want to send you a Venmo friend request now just to get these comments in the timeline.
This is actually from Swish, a Swedish Venmo-like service. I translated both the language and the service for you ;-)
 

Poker Zombie

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If the police want to raid your game, they are going to try to get an informant inside. An electronic paper trail is irrelevant. Of course if your game is so small that an outsider is an anomaly, the police aren't ever going to notice or care.

If a criminal with a gun is going to hit your game, They are not going to walk away empty handed just because you dont have a box full of cash. They will be armed, very angry, and will not leave just because you said "we don't use cash" - hell, even using cash, I'd say we only use Venmo if it was that easy. No, they came for something, and they will leave with something... even if they have to kill someone to get it. Of course if your game is so small that an outsider is an anomaly, the criminals aren't ever going to notice or care.

Oddly, cash is probably safer than electronic transfers, but keeping the game small and between friends is the safest.
 

BearMetal

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If the police want to raid your game, they are going to try to get an informant inside. An electronic paper trail is irrelevant. Of course if your game is so small that an outsider is an anomaly, the police aren't ever going to notice or care.

If a criminal with a gun is going to hit your game, They are not going to walk away empty handed just because you dont have a box full of cash. They will be armed, very angry, and will not leave just because you said "we don't use cash" - hell, even using cash, I'd say we only use Venmo if it was that easy. No, they came for something, and they will leave with something... even if they have to kill someone to get it. Of course if your game is so small that an outsider is an anomaly, the criminals aren't ever going to notice or care.

Oddly, cash is probably safer than electronic transfers, but keeping the game small and between friends is the safest.
What are the chances that my wife mugs us and takes the night's bank to go buy Hello Kitty dolls? Probably more likely than the cops knocking down my door.
 

BearMetal

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I get "hookers and blow" and "sexual favors" as comments on a regular basis.

A few more ...
What’s amazing in that someone with such low intelligence and bad personal hygiene found someone to marry them. Mozel Tov.
We are proud of you, taking this step and going to a weight loss camp. It’s way overdue.
For gender reassignment surgery. The whole family is behind you. You are our hero.

... again, such a nice group of people that I entertain and feed...
 

AceFour

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Online has been cashapp but we have been hitting weekly limits since the crew plays 4-5 nights a week with a weekly payout. In the before times, it's cash. Last night a small group of us played face to face fun game but nobody had change. I just marked down what people bought in for and at the end of the night the winners took the initial buy off the table and the losers paid me via cashapp and venmo and I paid out the winners using the same apps.

I did see on a blog a suggestion of using https://www.splitwise.com/ and setup a group and make another account for "The Bank". Folks would record their buy-in as borrowing from "The Bank" and the app would calculate payouts. Not exactly sure how this all works but it was an interesting ides.

For those planning to play more routinely than once a week, you could also consider using the Splitwise app. As the host, create a Splitwise group, invite all your poker friends, and create an additional Splitwise user called The Bank. When setting up the Splitwise group, be sure to check the setting that says "Simplify Debts." When players buy in, they will record a transaction that says they've borrowed money from The Bank. When they buy out for the evening (or if they want to buy in for additional money), they record another transaction wherein The Bank borrows money from them. This functions similarly to the Venmo bank set-up, except instead of the host managing The Bank, all players self report and the app automatically calculates who owes who money. This method, of course, has a steeper learning curve, but for long-term play allows you to painlessly keep track of balances without having to settle up every night.
 
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WazamBelina

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I have a pretty much bulletproof banking policy: must pay cash for chips. Every player gives me cash for chips, and when they cash out, they give me back the chips for cash. Every chip on the table is covered by cash. At the end of the night, the bank is almost never over or short.

If a player runs out of cash but wants to keep playing, he can venmo/zelle/cashapp/etc someone who does have cash, then hand the cash to me for chips. That person might even be me. The cashless player can, for example, Venmo me $60. Then I take $60 cash from my wallet, put it inside the rubber band holding the game's bank, and finally give the player $60 worth of chips.

However, lately, more and more of my friends don't carry cash anymore. I hosted a game recently where no one, except for me and two other players, had cash. This resulted in dozens of Venmo transactions of one buy-in each. I felt it was unnecessarily complicated.

I've been to completely cashless games where buyins are recorded on a ledger. At the end of the night, the ledger is settled in as few transactions as possible (which is usually losers pay the biggest winner and the biggest winner pays the other winners). I'm hesitate to use this gentleman's agreement cashless style for my own game. While it sounds convenient, who takes responsibility if something goes wrong? For example, what if a malicious player used a stolen credit card to pay the biggest winner and Venmo reverses the transaction?

How do everyone else handle the buying in cashing out aspect in a home game?
I don't mind buying in through venmo or other virtual cash. It makes it easy for everyone and no one has to worry about bringing cash. never been short.
 

WedgeRock

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The problem with Splitwise is now everyone is responsible for the bank....

Usually, the host collects and manages the bank. If there is a shortage, the host is responsible. Most importantly, the host pays everyone that night. With Splitwise, winners are responsible for collecting from losers. This may not matter in a close group...
 
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Just arriving but for my millennial mind it’s all about convenience with regards to PayPal/Venmo/cash app. I host small games with many first time players just trying to understand the game. It would be hard for me to stop them at the door and have them seek an ATM for a $20 bill or whatever.

As the night progresses, I’ve actually had more action on the table thanks to the cashless options as many have pointed out. One button press and it’s out of sight and out of mind from the player. Similar to the casino when they drop cash into the table once they receive their cheques.

Another advantage is that I use to keep a bank including CHANGE! It was a horrible experience having to go to the bank and getting rolls of quarters. This way if there is a micro stakes, I can simply send change with ease.

Simply put, I’m a fan.
 

ArielVer18

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Another advantage is that I use to keep a bank including CHANGE! It was a horrible experience having to go to the bank and getting rolls of quarters. This way if there is a micro stakes, I can simply send change with ease.
Most people round down to the nearest dollar to avoid dealing with coins. Some even round down to the nearest $5.
 

4SUMERZ

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I have a pretty much bulletproof banking policy: must pay cash for chips. Every player gives me cash for chips, and when they cash out, they give me back the chips for cash. Every chip on the table is covered by cash. At the end of the night, the bank is almost never over or short.

If a player runs out of cash but wants to keep playing, he can venmo/zelle/cashapp/etc someone who does have cash, then hand the cash to me for chips. That person might even be me. The cashless player can, for example, Venmo me $60. Then I take $60 cash from my wallet, put it inside the rubber band holding the game's bank, and finally give the player $60 worth of chips.

However, lately, more and more of my friends don't carry cash anymore. I hosted a game recently where no one, except for me and two other players, had cash. This resulted in dozens of Venmo transactions of one buy-in each. I felt it was unnecessarily complicated.

I've been to completely cashless games where buyins are recorded on a ledger. At the end of the night, the ledger is settled in as few transactions as possible (which is usually losers pay the biggest winner and the biggest winner pays the other winners). I'm hesitate to use this gentleman's agreement cashless style for my own game. While it sounds convenient, who takes responsibility if something goes wrong? For example, what if a malicious player used a stolen credit card to pay the biggest winner and Venmo reverses the transaction?

How do everyone else handle the buying in cashing out aspect in a home game?
Prior to the pandemic, each player has to have cash to buy the initial stack and any re-buys at $20.00 per.
We have a 4 hour cash game, then once around the table, then cash in the chips.
We haven't played in person since the pandemic started, but instead play on line at a private table of 9 players.
We keep track of win-loses, we play once a week for 1 hour and 30 minutes, then once around the table, then count our chips taking the table rake in consideration. At the end of each month, we pay up the losses to the banker (me) by either PayPal, or bank e-transfer.
I then send the winners their winnings by the same method. We have been doing the online since May, took the summer off for our golf, and restarted in Nov.

It's not quite as fun, thus why we only play for just over an hour and a half.
It does keep our gambling itch scratched however.
 
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Been hosting a weekly game for years

1. Players are close friends or vouched by a close friend

2. One player is assigned to be the bank. Sometimes we’re short (understandably with all the transactions and late night drinking). If the bank is short at the end of the night the difference is split between the major winners.

3. Our games are cashed base. Players exchange cash for chips. Markers are given should a player run out of cash. This is for convenience only. The player would need to pay back later with whatever means he chooses. Note that most players show up with a minimum of 1k
 

STL_POKERGUY

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We do cash for chips. There are four regulars in my game that are allowed to cary a marker with me, these are either family or have played with me for years.

All rebuys are in hundred dollar in a denomination and chip style NOT in play.

Any cash apps are to me only and I will pull cash from wallet and put into the bank immediately That being said I always keep enough in cash to cover every chip in play. So any short bank is on me.
 

Mr Winberg

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2. One player is assigned to be the bank. Sometimes we’re short (understandably with all the transactions and late night drinking). If the bank is short at the end of the night the difference is split between the major winners.
I do the same. And conversely, if the bank is long I have a Robin Hood policy that the biggest losers get to share in the excess.

I am somewhat surprised by the general consensus at PCF that the host should cover all bank discrepancies. Sure, it's the hosts responsibility, but it's also the host that has invested in all the equipment, does all the work, all the cleanup, and gets his whiskey stock decimated. In what other social event does the person who "makes it all happen" have to pay everyone else if they happen to make a mistake?

If I was at a cash game (non-profit, social homegame) and the bank was short I'd suggest that we all chip in. And if everyone else refuses I'd cover it myself as a token of gratitude to the host's efforts.

Exception: If the host does a really sloppy job I'd figure that the bank being short is a good lesson learned. I'd still tip a bit more to ease the pain, though.
 
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ArielVer18

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I am somewhat surprised by the general consensus at PCF that the host should cover all bank discrepancies. Sure, it's the hosts responsibility, but it's also the host that has invested in all the equipment, does all the work, all the cleanup, and gets his whiskey stock decimated. In what other social event does the person who "makes it all happen" have to pay everyone else if they happen to make a mistake?

It's to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Perhaps the bank can be forgiven if he's short only once after a consistent history of no banking errors. However, how would it look if the bank is habitually short? Would a new player think the bank is skimming?

If the host doesn't want the responsibility, a different player can bank. No shame in that. There are plenty of games where one player supplies the venue and a different player banks.
 
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I do the same. And conversely, if the bank is long I have a Robin Hood policy that the biggest losers get to share in the excess.

I am somewhat surprised by the general consensus at PCF that the host should cover all bank discrepancies. Sure, it's the hosts responsibility, but it's also the host that has invested in all the equipment, does all the work, all the cleanup, and gets his whiskey stock decimated. In what other social event does the person who "makes it all happen" have to pay everyone else if they happen to make a mistake?

If I was at a cash game (non-profit, social homegame) and the bank was short I'd suggest that we all chip in. And if everyone else refuses I'd cover it myself as a token of gratitude to the host's efforts.

Exception: If the host does a really sloppy job I'd figure that the bank being short is a good lesson learned. I'd still tip a bit more to ease the pain, though.


I agree 100% with this. Of course this is based on a home game where everyone invited are close friends or vouched by a close friend. To me it would appear too selfish of everyone to make one person suffer the burden. The bank is a volunteer work with absolutely no benefit. If you make that person absorb the financial hit no one would consider volunteering.

If there is extra in the bank usually the host (me) takes it and use it to buy the next case of beer.
 
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