Tourney How bad is this structure ? (1 Viewer)

shawn15p

Two Pair
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First time playing in this league that a friend of mine invited me to. I don't claim to know everything about the perfect way to structure a tournament but this one seems exceptionally bad to me.

I was doing fine, building my stack and by losing ONE medium sized pot in level 4 I was left with under 10 big blinds. Shoved with AJs and lost a flip to pocket 10s.

Don't even get me started on the terrible chips and playing on a dining room table. :(:eek:
 
@shawn15p, Halloween is over. No need for horror stories this close to Turkey Day. :eek:

I guess they are rationalizing by saying the blind levels are 45 minutes? No way it's ever lasting past L6. Total event should run about five hours.

With that structure, crappy chips, and playing on a dining room table, I wouldn't be a participant in that league. I have a feeling this group embodies #loldonkament.
 
How bad is this structure ?
Pretty bad. Nothing necessarily wrong with starting with 100BB or using 100% increases per se depending on how the structure is laid out, but this atrocity has no consistency -- the blinds increase at 100% clicks for the first three jumps, then a 25% increase (lol-wtf), followed by two more 100% jumps, then 50% and 67%. Whoever designed this is clueless.

No way it's ever lasting past L6. Total event should run about five hours.
I figure 5 hours plus breaks with 20 players (no later than Level 9), or 4 hours plus breaks with 10 players (usually over by Level 7 or 8). With 20 players, there are still 100bb on the table at L6, which is plenty even three- or four-handed with a crappy structure.


An average stack is just 25BB by the start of Level 3. This basically means that players ~should~ be trying to double up at least once (if not twice) before even reaching this level. That gives players 90 minutes of play to double their stack -- and the downside of not doing so make it profitable to play wildly aggressive during the first two levels of play.

Even at a full table, I'd widen my starting range by a lot (especially during the second half of each level, before my stack gets cut in half), and I'd be playing those hands really hard. Large pre-flop raises, 3- and 4-betting pre-flop with premium hands, firing big continuation bets post-flop if in early position, and coming over the top of any bettors when in late position. Games like this can be profitable, but they aren't for the weak of heart or passive rock-style players. There is no time to wait for premium hands, and winning small limped pots is a waste of time and energy. Go big or go home, don't let the blinds crush your stack.

Personally, I wouldn't play in it either, but I'd sure shake up the normal game play if I did. :)


Fwiw, here's a much better way to get to that same ending 500/1000 level in 5 hours (20 minute blind levels):

lvl sb bb
1 5 10
2 5 15
3 10 20
10-minute break
4 15 30
5 20 40
6 30 60
7 40 80
remove T5 chips
8 50 100
9 75 150
10 100 200
11 150 300
remove T25 chips
12 200 400
13 300 600
14 400 800
15 500 1000 ***
16 600 1200
17 800 1600
18 1000 2000

The blinds are the exact same at the 2-hour mark (40/80) and at 3 hours (100/200) -- but how one gets there is drastically different. The average blind increase is a smooth and consistent 39% (mostly 33% or 50%), versus an average 81% increase in the league's structure (most 100% increases). Those huge jumps are unnecessary, and artificially create short stacks when the blinds increase -- which in turn encourages shove-fest mentality in the closing stages of almost every level.

Might be worth a shot having the organizer take a look. It won't do anything except increase players' enjoyment and help promote better poker play.
 
That is the pretty similar to the structure used by Sam's Town Las Vegas, divided by 10 and starting at level 2. Sam's Town even throttles back the action in the first hour by making the first 3 levels Limit.

While it's not my preferred structure, 45 minute levels give you ample opportunity to make the tight-aggressive moves to double up your stack against a LAG player.

This is the reason I am always pretty adamant to see the blind structure before playing in a tournament. Not because the structure is bad, but because you must adjust to the game.

Overall, I could deal with it just fine, but it's clunky and could be refined. A dining room table or crappy chips - that's where the enjoyment factor spirals out of control.
 
Pretty bad. Nothing necessarily wrong with starting with 100BB or using 100% increases per se depending on how the structure is laid out, but this atrocity has no consistency -- the blinds increase at 100% clicks for the first three jumps, then a 25% increase (lol-wtf), followed by two more 100% jumps, then 50% and 67%. Whoever designed this is clueless.


I figure 5 hours plus breaks with 20 players (no later than Level 9), or 4 hours plus breaks with 10 players (usually over by Level 7 or 8). With 20 players, there are still 100bb on the table at L6, which is plenty even three- or four-handed with a crappy structure.


An average stack is just 25BB by the start of Level 3. This basically means that players ~should~ be trying to double up at least once (if not twice) before even reaching this level. That gives players 90 minutes of play to double their stack -- and the downside of not doing so make it profitable to play wildly aggressive during the first two levels of play.

Even at a full table, I'd widen my starting range by a lot (especially during the second half of each level, before my stack gets cut in half), and I'd be playing those hands really hard. Large pre-flop raises, 3- and 4-betting pre-flop with premium hands, firing big continuation bets post-flop if in early position, and coming over the top of any bettors when in late position. Games like this can be profitable, but they aren't for the weak of heart or passive rock-style players. There is no time to wait for premium hands, and winning small limped pots is a waste of time and energy. Go big or go home, don't let the blinds crush your stack.

Personally, I wouldn't play in it either, but I'd sure shake up the normal game play if I did. :)


Fwiw, here's a much better way to get to that same ending 500/1000 level in 5 hours (20 minute blind levels):

lvl sb bb
1 5 10
2 5 15
3 10 20
10-minute break
4 15 30
5 20 40
6 30 60
7 40 80
remove T5 chips
8 50 100
9 75 150
10 100 200
11 150 300
remove T25 chips
12 200 400
13 300 600
14 400 800
15 500 1000 ***
16 600 1200
17 800 1600
18 1000 2000

The blinds are the exact same at the 2-hour mark (40/80) and at 3 hours (100/200) -- but how one gets there is drastically different. The average blind increase is a smooth and consistent 39% (mostly 33% or 50%), versus an average 81% increase in the league's structure (most 100% increases). Those huge jumps are unnecessary, and artificially create short stacks when the blinds increase -- which in turn encourages shove-fest mentality in the closing stages of almost every level.

Might be worth a shot having the organizer take a look. It won't do anything except increase players' enjoyment and help promote better poker play.

I wish I could say something to the organizer, but it seems they are pretty set in their ways. I sent him pics of my CPS chips before the league started and said if they wanted to use these I would be more than happy to bring them so it would give them more flexibility with the structure. He said "no thanks, we already have nice chips". For years they used the same structure and only started with $600 in chips, so this must seem better to most of the members.
 
New house today and they had one decent table and then the dining room table. Oddly enough once we got down to the final table we used the dining room table :(. Here is a shot of the chips albeit not a good one. But on the bright side, I binked this tourney :D



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