Tourney Help with All-in-One T10000 - T1M Chip Set Breakdown (1 Viewer)

[BeagleStorm]

I'm working on a custom tournament set of chips and I would like it to be flexible enough for 20 people at T10K, T100K or T1M. I have been reading for weeks about starting stacks and breakdowns (Thanks BGinGA) and this is what I came up with.

20 person T10000 with 12/12/5/6
30 person T10000 With 8/8/4/7
20 person T100K-T250K with 10/10/7/(2-8)
20 person T500K-T1M with 10/8/10/(2-7)
At least 5 re-buys but I think doing it this way I'm way over that.
1400 Chips

Doing it progressively like this in one set seems like it helps to reduce the number of chips needed vs. building separate sets. Plus, the custom ceramics get pretty cheap once you hit 1000 chips. The re-buys and color ups are covered by the chips needed for the high stakes levels. Still my brain wants to explode trying to verify everything, and if there is a reason I absolutely don't want to do it this way please let me know.

So is there a simpler way to accomplish this with less than 1400 chips? I'm not trying to save 25 chips but if it can be done with say 1200-1300 or less that would be worth it. I imagine there might be a way to consolidate the T100k - T1M starting stacks into one? I don't mind bigger stacks but would not want smaller than 30 or so chips for the 20 person games. Oh and one last question for now... is there any advantage to a 250k vs 500k chip at the top? I'm good with either one. Thanks everyone for your patience answering and re-answering the same questions over and over. I tried to do as much of the leg work as possible before I asked.

Michael

 

[Jambine]

this is a job for @BGinGA

 

[AWenger]

Nice spreadsheet work! It might be easier to analyze by adding a column with Total Chips in Stacks in each of the 4 scenarios, between the "Txx Start Stack" and "Extra Chips" column.

Since the jump from T500 chips to T1000 chips is the only time the jump is 2x between the denominations above (versus other jumps are 4x and 5x), some tournaments use fewer T500s in the starting stack per player, like 4 chips or even 2 or 3 chips for some WSOP events (see below).

I posted this snippet below before:

Here are some breakdowns from WSOP events -- they use fewer T500 chips in starting stacks, but may use T500s to color up T25 and T100.
- past WSOP 30k starting stack - 8,8,2,8,4
- another WSOP 30k starting stack - 12,12,3,12,3
- WSOP ME 2016 - 50k starting stack - 8/8/2/8/8
​

A few comments & thoughts:

• I think you're good on the 240/240 breakdown for T25/T100, especially for your 30 player T10000 tourney with 8/8/4/7
• You'd probably be fine with reducing the T500s chips from 200 to 120. (Starting stack for the T250,000 could be 6/12/7/8, 6/7/8/8, or 4/8/8/8, instead of 10/10/7/8)
• I play in a T10000 single tournament game where the host gives out 8/8/4/2/1 breakdown for T25 through T5000, and while I think it's too few T1000 chips, the tournament works.
• If you're open to giving different starting stacks per player, it could allow you to eliminate some chips. (For example, for your T10000 with 30 players you could give out some stacks of 8/8/4/7 and some stacks of 8/8/4/2/1. That may allow you to reduce the number of T1000 chips slightly.
• Color ups can be handled by introducing a couple very large denom chips from the bank, make change with the big stacks first, to handle color ups, whether or not you round up odd amounts or do a chip race. (In other words, to color up T25s, a set doesn't really need extra T100s)
• Might be able to reduce the T1000 chips from 240 to 220.
• With 80 less T500 chips, and 20 less T1000 chips, that saves 100 chips total. I'm not sure I see an easy way to reduce another 100 chips, though.

 

[BGinGA]

20 person T10000 with 12/12/5/6
30 person T10000 With 8/8/4/7
20 person T100K-T250K with 10/10/7/(2-8)
20 person T500K-T1M with 10/8/10/(2-7)
At least 5 re-buys but I think doing it this way I'm way over that.
1400 Chips

Here are my numbers:

I couldn't figure out our 5k/25k/100k count differences, until I just now noticed that your T1M chart numbers are for 18 players (I used 20 per your quoted text above).

I do think your T1000 count of 240 is incorrect, however - you even show $210,000 total of $1000 chips in play for the 30-player event (and 30 players x 7 chips = 210). Not sure where you picked up the extra 30x $1000 chips, unless you are using T1000s for color-ups (not necessary, especially for the outlier 30-player game). You can even get away with just 200 x T1000 chips total, by taking two of those 30 starting stacks and making them 8/8/4/2/1 (this is what I would do). You can also drop my T100K count to 140 by using all T500K chips for color-ups in the 1M event. Combining those two changes (in bold text) puts my total set numbers at 1400 chips - the same as yours - but it accommodates 20 players across the board, including the T500K-T1M structure.

The numbers above include chip denominations and quantity needed for 25% re-buys (5 for a 20-player field, 8 for 30 players). The in-play chips refers to the total number of chips in play at tournament end. The chart also shows which high-denomination chips are used to color up each specific lower-denomination chip, per structure.

Doing it progressively like this in one set seems like it helps to reduce the number of chips needed vs. building separate sets.

Absolutely. Building four different dedicated sets would take more than twice as many chips.

So is there a simpler way to accomplish this with less than 1400 chips?

Not that I can see, unless you really want to degrade the efficiency of one or more of the four sub-sets. Your biggest low-impact cuts could come in the T1M event, by using 10/8/6/8 or 10/8/6/3/1 stacks instead of 10/8/10/7, but I'm not sure it's worth the small reduction. I'd go with the modified 1400 chip plan.

is there any advantage to a 250k vs 500k chip at the top?

No, not in your case. The advantage of a T250K chip really only comes into play when the blinds get above 500,000/1,000,000 - at which point the T100K chips can get removed, and play continues with T250K chips plus either T500K or T1M chips. A 20-player 1M tournament will end right about that point, so a T250K chip makes little sense for your specific application..

I tried to do as much of the leg work as possible

I think you did a bang-up job. (y) :thumbsup: Some minor color-up issues are really all that needs to be addressed.
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Fire away if you have any questions.

Recommended set:
240 x T25
240 x T100
200 x T500
200 x T1000
160 x T5000
200 x T25000
140 x T100000
20 x T500000
--------------------
1400 chips. Rounding all numbers up to even racks takes the total up to 1700 chips. Don't forget the bounty chips.