appar1t10n
Sitting Out
I think you've sold me, Psypher. I'll do what I need to in order to make the card KickStarter happen first. Your advice has been invaluable. Thank you sincerely.
Hard Candy Hold'em - Mafia-Themed All-Inclusive Custom Poker Chip Set Designed by Me! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter appar1t10n
- Start date
I think you've sold me, Psypher. I'll do what I need to in order to make the card KickStarter happen first. Your advice has been invaluable. Thank you sincerely.
I will dispute it all day long. In fact, one of the many reasons we buy nice sets of poker chips is exactly because they do the job better. Very rarely do inexpensive sets not contain the undesirable characteristics you described above. And yeah, I've been in the middle of a game before and had those exact thoughts about dice chips. They suck for many reasons, including that they do not work as well as more expensive high-end chips.
I'm not on 2+2, but there is very little - if anything - in the OP that interests me. To say that I hate the idea/concept/execution would be a bit harsh, but I do think it's overthought, incohesive, and lacks a clear marketing direction. The whole thing reeks of badly designed children's toys geared for adults. Even the poker-related items badly miss the mark. No surprise that these got the poor reaction on 2+2..... but it's a bit surprising that you haven't paid much attention to it.
There has been some very good advice in this thread (particularly from Mental Nomad and Psypher1000), along with some very valid criticism of card suit colors, chip design elements, and even market appeal. Even if those items were addressed and corrected, I think this project is still a long-term loser with a very limited market (if any). You need to design a better mousetrap.
I have nearly 30,000 high-end poker chips and over 100 decks of high-end playing cards in my collection, and there is NO room for any of this disjointed candy/gangster stuff, even as a novelty item (and certainly not as a valued collector item or as a playable set). I fear that you will be tremendously unsuccessful with a kickstarter venture, and would encourage you to find a better product line before investing any more time or energy on this one.
Not a hater, but not a lover either -- just calling it as I see it. If you decide to continue with the venture anyway, then I wish you the best of luck, sir. You're gonna need it.
MeridianFC
Flush
I would encourage the OP to read the above post repeatedly until the message is received.
You had me at this ^^ (LOL), but still wouldn't buy.....
GL though
nitzilla
P.S. Every time I see this thread I can't help but think of this movie.........and it's not for the "faint of heart"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424136/?ref_=nv_sr_1
appar1t10n
Sitting Out
It's not that I haven't been taking anyone's advice into consideration. I have. I hate to repost what I said on 2p2, but I feel it sums up my outlook on this whole thing best. The first part is in response to someone's suggestion that I should develop one or the other, either candy or gangsters:
"It is. Seems so obvious. But, at inception, it all spawned from the hard-candy-hit-list-gangster thing. I didn't think it would be such a tough sell or such a logical stretch/leap. Take the figurative...and make it literal.
Something about the combination though still intrigues me. It's not to say that I don't believe there's any merit to separating the two ideas, it's just to say that the contrast between something as innocent as candy combined with something as sinister as murder...I don't know! Lol There's just something to it. Combine the pretty colors and graphics with the dark imagery of a hit list and I think it's a cool premise. I have to know if others will think so, so I'm going forward with the cards largely as featured in the pics. It's not that I'm married to what I did, that I'm being stubborn, or I think anyone in this thread is wrong. It's just that, ultimately, I am responsible for the success or failure of this project on the whole, and I think I gotta stick with the original idea. It may fail miserably, it may have been twice as successful had I changed the yellow to green, or chosen to do the all gangster or all candy thing, but I am willing to go forward, pretty much, as is.
I did heed some advice though and that's why I'm choosing to do the cards alone to start. Honestly, I don't remember if it's in this thread or the other one on the other site, but I'm on my phone and I can't look it up so easily.
Where the project stands now is I am making any last-minute corrections, adjusting the dimensions of the graphics of the cards, and submitting to legends playing card company to see if it's something they can--or want--to do. Need a quote and, if it's better or as good as MakePlayingCards.com, I'm going with Legends."
That said! Here's the new and (slightly?) improved Tommy Two Times.
The cops for the jokers! (Finally.)
Black...
...and red.
And, the completed cards.
Bracing myself for thoughts.
"It is. Seems so obvious. But, at inception, it all spawned from the hard-candy-hit-list-gangster thing. I didn't think it would be such a tough sell or such a logical stretch/leap. Take the figurative...and make it literal.
Something about the combination though still intrigues me. It's not to say that I don't believe there's any merit to separating the two ideas, it's just to say that the contrast between something as innocent as candy combined with something as sinister as murder...I don't know! Lol There's just something to it. Combine the pretty colors and graphics with the dark imagery of a hit list and I think it's a cool premise. I have to know if others will think so, so I'm going forward with the cards largely as featured in the pics. It's not that I'm married to what I did, that I'm being stubborn, or I think anyone in this thread is wrong. It's just that, ultimately, I am responsible for the success or failure of this project on the whole, and I think I gotta stick with the original idea. It may fail miserably, it may have been twice as successful had I changed the yellow to green, or chosen to do the all gangster or all candy thing, but I am willing to go forward, pretty much, as is.
Where the project stands now is I am making any last-minute corrections, adjusting the dimensions of the graphics of the cards, and submitting to legends playing card company to see if it's something they can--or want--to do. Need a quote and, if it's better or as good as MakePlayingCards.com, I'm going with Legends."
That said! Here's the new and (slightly?) improved Tommy Two Times.
The cops for the jokers! (Finally.)
Black...
...and red.
And, the completed cards.
Bracing myself for thoughts.
You obviously like what you have done, which is exactly why I encourage you to pursue it.... for yourself. There are a lot of custom poker sets that have special meaning and/or appeal to only the person who had them created, and in the long run, that's all that really matters.
However, it's also pretty obvious that very few (if any) others share in your enthusiasm for candy gangster poker chips or playing cards. I think this is where your stubbornness and unwillingness to listen to the feedback you have solicited is kicking in. To ignore making even minor tweaks (using standard colors, for example) that might make the project more palatable for prospective buyers reflects an underlying narrow-minded approach to the project that results in bad decision-making.
Gotta wonder why you bothered to ask for feedback in the first place, when your intent all along has been to try and force-feed your vision on others, regardless if they want it or not.
links_slayer
4 of a Kind
I've stayed out of the discussion until now because I was trying to find the best way to say how I felt about this whole thing. Dave summed it up quite nicely above. Best of luck with the project.
I like playing cards... And I like poker chips...
But your aesthetic really isn't for me.
It feels like your market isn't 2+2, or here. If it's out there, it's elsewhere.
I have to agree with BGinGA - this feels much more like a personal project, or that has a target audience not represented on this forum.
Fast forward a year and you'll be mibted, given my nose for business/investment!
- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -
I like playing cards... And I like poker chips...
But your aesthetic really isn't for me.
It feels like your market isn't 2+2, or here. If it's out there, it's elsewhere.
I have to agree with BGinGA - this feels much more like a personal project, or that has a target audience not represented on this forum.
Fast forward a year and you'll be mibted, given my nose for business/investment!
But your aesthetic really isn't for me.
It feels like your market isn't 2+2, or here. If it's out there, it's elsewhere.
I have to agree with BGinGA - this feels much more like a personal project, or that has a target audience not represented on this forum.
Fast forward a year and you'll be mibted, given my nose for business/investment!
- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -
I like playing cards... And I like poker chips...
But your aesthetic really isn't for me.
It feels like your market isn't 2+2, or here. If it's out there, it's elsewhere.
I have to agree with BGinGA - this feels much more like a personal project, or that has a target audience not represented on this forum.
Fast forward a year and you'll be mibted, given my nose for business/investment!
appar1t10n
Sitting Out
I've tried and/or contemplated just about every piece of advice that's been given on this forum and the 2p2. I've adopted much of Sypher1000's and Nomad's. I tried the "standard" colors and hated the green(s). Tried about every variation of green that made sense, made the clubs green, and transfered the blue to the diamonds. Honestly, I couldn't stand it. In doing this, I came to realize that I had inadvertently chosen the exact 4 colors of the CMYK color space. Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black. I didn't realize it when I created the color scheme and tried various combinations to construct the palette for the cards. Ultimately, I chose to stick with the CMYK colors because they get as bright as possible, given the limitations of ink printing. They "pop" and that's tough to achieve with CMYK. If I could use an RGB green, I would be able to get a bright and dramatic green and it would be a viable option. In CMYK, any green I picked dragged the rest of the cards down. OBJECTIVELY. Honest. Lol
I know there is a lot more advice that I've opted not to cover here--and perhaps I will in a bit--but it's dinner time now and I don't miss meals. Every piece of advice given has been duly considered. Some adopted, many not, but I've painstakingly weighed the options.
Keep in mind that I haven't showed you any changes to the chips yet because I'm focusing on getting the cards out first. The chips have and will change, but I'm reluctant to say which advice I'm considering because I may yet change the tentatives and I don't want to appear to be flip-flopping. Flip-flopping is part of the creative process, but it's often not wise to show everyone everything.
Spaghetti time. Thanks again, guys.
I know there is a lot more advice that I've opted not to cover here--and perhaps I will in a bit--but it's dinner time now and I don't miss meals. Every piece of advice given has been duly considered. Some adopted, many not, but I've painstakingly weighed the options.
Keep in mind that I haven't showed you any changes to the chips yet because I'm focusing on getting the cards out first. The chips have and will change, but I'm reluctant to say which advice I'm considering because I may yet change the tentatives and I don't want to appear to be flip-flopping. Flip-flopping is part of the creative process, but it's often not wise to show everyone everything.
Spaghetti time. Thanks again, guys.
Mental Nomad
Full House
I think folks are being a bit harsh on the OP.
Yes, he had his mind pretty well made up when he posted here, and he knew he got negative feedback at CT.
He was hoping someone might convince him he's wrong about his set; nobody did, he still likes it. (fine)
He was hoping someone would make a convincing argument for a major improvement that's works within his concept. (nope)
He was hoping to get some advice that might improve his odds a little bit (looks like he got a little of that.)
I wish him luck. I don't like the set, and don't think most poker players would. On the plus side, Kickstarter leads to exposure outside our insular custom chip world; there may be enough people for him to have a market, and it looks he's going to find out. If the Kickstarter doesn't fund, he loses no money - just his own time spent on a hobby he likes. He can then just take his own cash and buy his custom set.
Yes, he had his mind pretty well made up when he posted here, and he knew he got negative feedback at CT.
He was hoping someone might convince him he's wrong about his set; nobody did, he still likes it. (fine)
He was hoping someone would make a convincing argument for a major improvement that's works within his concept. (nope)
He was hoping to get some advice that might improve his odds a little bit (looks like he got a little of that.)
I wish him luck. I don't like the set, and don't think most poker players would. On the plus side, Kickstarter leads to exposure outside our insular custom chip world; there may be enough people for him to have a market, and it looks he's going to find out. If the Kickstarter doesn't fund, he loses no money - just his own time spent on a hobby he likes. He can then just take his own cash and buy his custom set.
SixSpeedFury
Full House
They might be geared more towards the board game market than the poker game market. If it is something you truly enjoy for yourself, as BGinGA stated, then you should make it your own, just how many here had done (including myself) with their custom sets.
CO0LHand
Pair
I wouldn't pay for that.
Hard Candy Hold'em - Mafia-Themed All-Inclusive Custom Poker Chip Set Designe...
You: "Hey guys, I've got this idea and I'm wondering if people will like it enough to buy it, making it a good investment to plunk a load of cash into manufacturing. What do you all think of it?
Everybody: I don't like it. Here's a list of the major reasons why I don't like it.
You: Anybody?
Everybody: Yeah, we just gave you that list of things that don't appeal to us.
You: No? Okay, I'm going to move forward with it then. Thanks!
You: "Hey guys, I've got this idea and I'm wondering if people will like it enough to buy it, making it a good investment to plunk a load of cash into manufacturing. What do you all think of it?
Everybody: I don't like it. Here's a list of the major reasons why I don't like it.
You: Anybody?
Everybody: Yeah, we just gave you that list of things that don't appeal to us.
You: No? Okay, I'm going to move forward with it then. Thanks!
SixSpeedFury
Full House
Wonder if he had any success. As a stand alone set, it works for him cause it's what he likes.
Mr Tree
Straight Flush
If he just wants it for himself then more power to him. I got the gyst he thought it was going to be a cash cow though, which just ain't happening in the real world.
spikeithard
Flush
manamongkids
Full House
Dont know why but this thread popped into my head today, would like to hear an update on it.
spikeithard
Flush
place your bets now.....
i doubt much has happened. the 2+2 thread on this set has been dormant since about the same time as OP's last post here. ditto for the facebook page. seems like the project was aborted.
fwiw i think the set could have been cool had he devoted the time and energy he put toward the cards and case and to the design of the chips themselves. of course, he also didn't do himself any favors in his presentation and interaction either here or on 2+2.
fwiw i think the set could have been cool had he devoted the time and energy he put toward the cards and case and to the design of the chips themselves. of course, he also didn't do himself any favors in his presentation and interaction either here or on 2+2.
Mr Tree
Straight Flush
Now I'm in the mood for Jolly Ranchers.
Just noticing this thread now.
So, if "hard core" poker players won't like it, what is your target market? The general public? You think they'll shell out $500 for 500 chips when they can go to Walmart and buy a set of cheap dice chips for 30-40 bucks? Well, I can tell you they won't, they care more for price over quality.
That leaves the hard core crowd, which is a significantly smaller market, but one that is willing to spend more money individually. Well, they have seen a LOT of cool chips and designs, so you need something that stands out and is not only unique but is something they'd be interested in.
Your best bet is to turn this idea into a "freemium" app and make millions/day selling people "coins" or "gems" or whatever the fuck gets all those companies instant millions.
SixSpeedFury
Full House
Yea, I think 2+2, CT and PCF made him crawl back under a rock.
10centguitar
Two Pair
I applaud all your hard work. It looks like it took forever. And please take no offense but, I think this set is terrible. I mean just awful....
That being said....you do have most of the elements of something that could be quite marketable. And I am being serious. Very serious.
Ditsy 17-22 yr old girls.
Think candy, think girls.
Like the zombie teen high girl toys, but with candy and not zombie crap.
The mafia thing is not working. They look really corny. Mafia is supposed to be tough, not cartoony.
But my friend you are in luck. You have a great idea waiting to be fleshed out.
The colors of the cards should be variations of Mike Caro's 4 color deck. (the pink and light blue are great) The yellow is impossible.
Keep the swirly crap on the suits though. That looks cool
But make the characters hot disproportionate chics! Pinup, cupcakey chics.
Meet your new Q of hearts:
shit like that.
Walk down the girls toy aisle at target, get ideas.
i typed girl shit into pinterest:
https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=cartoon cupcake candy pinup
the mother load.
You will probably need hot candy dude characters too for the Ks and Js. No ideas for you there. But this should give you a start.
I only ask 2% of your profits...lol
That being said....you do have most of the elements of something that could be quite marketable. And I am being serious. Very serious.
Ditsy 17-22 yr old girls.
Think candy, think girls.
Like the zombie teen high girl toys, but with candy and not zombie crap.
The mafia thing is not working. They look really corny. Mafia is supposed to be tough, not cartoony.
But my friend you are in luck. You have a great idea waiting to be fleshed out.
The colors of the cards should be variations of Mike Caro's 4 color deck. (the pink and light blue are great) The yellow is impossible.
Keep the swirly crap on the suits though. That looks cool
But make the characters hot disproportionate chics! Pinup, cupcakey chics.
Meet your new Q of hearts:
shit like that.
Walk down the girls toy aisle at target, get ideas.
i typed girl shit into pinterest:
https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=cartoon cupcake candy pinup
the mother load.
You will probably need hot candy dude characters too for the Ks and Js. No ideas for you there. But this should give you a start.
I only ask 2% of your profits...lol
Ellasdaddy
Flush
Just discovered this thread and was enthralled by it.
I'd just like to get an update on it from OP. Google turned up nothing since the pre-Kickstarter, which is likely my answer...
I know people who would've loved the gangster theme but would never pay more than $100 for an entire 1000 piece novelty/kiddie set. I also know people who would've loved the candy theme and colors, but would feel the same about the price and quality.
OP was struck by a term that only he found interesting and instead of putting time, money and effort into customizing a personal set and pleasing himself, he tried to turn it into a business. I'm sure he also imagined a trademark, a cartoon spinoff, line of toys and Halloween costumes.
I'd just like to get an update on it from OP. Google turned up nothing since the pre-Kickstarter, which is likely my answer...
I know people who would've loved the gangster theme but would never pay more than $100 for an entire 1000 piece novelty/kiddie set. I also know people who would've loved the candy theme and colors, but would feel the same about the price and quality.
OP was struck by a term that only he found interesting and instead of putting time, money and effort into customizing a personal set and pleasing himself, he tried to turn it into a business. I'm sure he also imagined a trademark, a cartoon spinoff, line of toys and Halloween costumes.
SemiNumerical
Straight
If you guys are interested,
After 1 min of internet sleuthing
https://www.jadagram.com/i/hardcandyholdem/1769813101
OP is the one behind this case
https://www.jadagram.com/i/aurorapokergear/3511189063
Not sure if this case was the 2nd or 3rd idea he was mentioning.
After 1 min of internet sleuthing
https://www.jadagram.com/i/hardcandyholdem/1769813101
OP is the one behind this case
Not sure if this case was the 2nd or 3rd idea he was mentioning.
Last edited:
tommythecat
Flush
Case has been seen here before...didn't know it was from the guy in the OP though...thanks!
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