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Gnu news (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter k9dr
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Chippy McChiperson
Straight Flush
I didn't think the story about the reporter and cameraman was trolling. Distasteful to link the video? Sure, but it was a pretty big topic of the day, and worthy of discussion. I did think the illegal immigration post immediately after getting hammered by Mean Girls Inc. was an obvious trolling attempt, and I refused to participate in that discussion.
grandgnu
A new beginning
I feel the need to address this because for me I find it a pretty serious charge and should at least provide my perspective on that aspect. I have a pretty dark, twisted sense of humor. I grew up with friends from a variety of races and religions, and came from a mixed-religion household (father is Catholic, mother is Jewish). So I tend to joke and my jokes don't fall anywhere within the politically correct spectrum.
I do enjoy jokes that poke fun at race, religion, etc. Unfortunately, meeting people at the BBotB III for the first time in person, I read the situation wrong and my humor was not well-received. It's humor that I was accustomed to with my friends who gave as good as they got, as well as co-workers. Unfortunately for me, this particular crowd wasn't the type of share that sort of humor and I was branded a racist because of it.
I tend to poke fun at all colors, religions, heights, weights and sexes. I don't offend easily and grew up with others who didn't offend easily and that wasn't the environment I found myself in at that meatup.
In my defense, when I first met the bulk of the group for the BBotB III, it was at breakfast at the Wooden Spoon. Shortly after arriving Guiness was regaling the group with a story about his dick, quite loudly, in a small restaurant, where other patrons were looking at our group. Courage often sexualizes random women in posts on the forum and posts pics of one's he's seen in public and others join in the fun, yet I see no cries of misogyny thrown at him. Given that, I figured this particular crowd was comfortable with my type of humor and that turned out to not be the case.
So no, I'm not a racist, despite liking humor that is racially based and pokes fun at stereotypes (Chappelle show, etc). I have friends who are black, brown and yellow, muslim , jewish and Buddhist.
If I'm permitted to attend this event obviously I will not be tapping my well of dark humor while playing, because it's been made fairly evident that it's the wrong crowd for it. But, you're welcome to toss all the short jokes you want my way, I guarantee I've heard about 90% of them at least fifty times each, but would welcome something fresh. For the record, I stand a whopping 5 feet and 3/4th of an inch "tall" but lied on my license and said I was 5'1". I am now trying to use the picture of me next to Ben in an effort to convince the government that I'm a little person so I can get benefits.
spikeithard
Flush
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Where does the investment opportunity thread fall into? or the Telemarketer thread?
RowdyRawhide
Full House
If I were able to attend it would not bother me. Hopefully one of these years I will be able to start attending these meat ups.
slisk250
Straight Flush
I'm Jonesing for cards right now. I would sit at the table with the Dr. and 7 gnus and 1 Kimmie if it meant I'd be near Bradenton.
Whatever you do, just don't repot the river in a spot that causes you and abby99 to get quartered. If you do, at least make sure there are no sharp objects within reach.
(Am I out of the doghouse yet???)
Yeah, you're out of the dog house. I really don't need anybody's help in giving away chips -- I'm doing perfectly fine losing them on my own, TYVM
ssanel54
Flush
I considered sending a PM, but figured you wanted to keep everything in the open so you can share your perspective.
It really doesn't matter if you are racist or not. Where I have always had an issue, and where others have tried to get you to see the light both in forums and via PM is that you refuse to recognize that your words and actions may come across as racist. You can call your humor whatever you want - NON PC, Dark and Twisted, Politically incorrect etc, but at the end of the day, when you are making fun of a certain race, ethnicity or stereotype, most people will call that racial humor. You''re a smart guy, and you know full well that you would not have been making the same jokes in a room full of Black people or Asians. Its great that you can enjoy this type of humor with your ethnic friends and that you gain a sense of comraderie along with it, but If you found yourself at a KKK rally where members were telling the same jokes, would they be just as funny to you? If yes, then take a deeper look within.
Maybe, I overreacted to your Telemarketing post, but I honestly don't understand how you can look down upon so many people in society, and I don't know what you were looking to accomplish by posting that. It seems like you were hoping to gain some admiration from the community, but as soon as others mention that it's a human on the other end of the phone just trying to earn a living - then you get all defensive and brash justifying your behavior, and further belittling the telemarketer.
As mentioned, I don't think anyone should avoid this meet up just because of you. I think the question for you Gnu, is how can you make this meet up more enjoyable than if you were not there. Think about it, and I hope you will take some of these suggestions to heart instead of blaming ghosts.
grandgnu
A new beginning
I'm all for full disclosure
I already admitted my humor was "racial", but I don't view it as "racist". For me at least, I define "racist" as having an intent to cause harm and meant with malice. My humor has no malicious intent behind it.
I might not, or I might at least get a feel for the room a lot better than I did with the WASP-filled BBotB III crowd.
Again, this goes back to the issue of intent. I find racial humor hilarious (even when it's poking fun at me) when it's meant as humor without malice behind it.
I'm not sure how I'm looking down on "so many people in society". I adopted an obnoxious southern drawl and told her to write a check out to Cash Mo Ney. It's stupid humor, but painfully obvious humor as well. I wasn't yelling and screaming at her, I wasn't swearing and calling her names. Hell, in the past when I was single and received a telemarketing call at home the chick sounded cute so I started flirting with her and it made her day because it was a diversion from the normal drudgery of her job.
I get defensive and brash because I do feel like your particular group from BBotB III is just looking for reasons to overdramatize anything I say or do and make it appear significantly worse than it really is, and you utilize a pack mentality which is something that you guys did back on the blue wall as well when you disliked someone, you'd just bash them and often your group was way out of line.
I also get defensive and brash because I feel most of you are extremely hypocritical. Take Courage, for instance. He posts pictures of random attractive females he's seen in public and then sexualizes them and gets all sorts of hoo-rah's from everyone here. I'm sure he doesn't have their permission to post their photos and sexualize them online, it's quite misogynistic. But no one makes a peep about that because he's part of the cool kids crowd (see Echosmith)
Well, I do appreciate that you were willing to discuss, rather than just hurl insults and exaggerate my posts, certainly a refreshing way to interact. Since I believe in full disclosure, I will share what I believe were the stories I told that didn't sit well with the BBotB III crowd. I will put them in spoiler tags should anyone not wish to view them. But will provide my backstory on them and I guess we'll see what the court of public opinion feels about my "racism"
So I'm "half-Jewish" and was a typical class clown growing up. I was picked on a lot because I'm short and sometimes because I'm Jewish, so I eventually adapted to be comfortable poking fun at myself and fun at everyone else, which took the sting out of things.
Again I'll reiterate that when I first met the chippers for this meatup, it was for breakfast in a small restaurant that was moderately busy. We meet everyone and sit down, and shortly thereafter hear Guinness telling a story about his dick (I think it was about an operation, don't recall exactly). But bear in mind this guy just met me and my wife, and he's launching into this fairly graphic story, and he's telling it loud enough that other patrons are looking at us. This doesn't bother me, but it sets the tone of what I felt the groups "acceptable behavior" was.
From my recollection, the only jokes I made (outside of the stories I will share) were directed squarely at my own Jewish heritage (such as, what's the difference between a Jew and a canoe? A Jew doesn't tip! What type of brakes does a Jewish car have? Stop on the dime brakes! Why do Jews like football so much? Because the object is to get the quarter.......back)
Now on to the stories portion of my tale, which I believe is where the real issues lie.
I worked at Cigna in a temporary I.T. job. The company they contracted to handle their internal support for 35,000 nationwide employees was failing to meet its Service Level Agreements, so they brought a bunch of temps in to get caught up.
A group of us went through a week-long boot camp of sorts, and the guy who ran it was kinda a dick. His name was Ray and he'd say stuff like "you're a desktop support technician, figure it out" and was just generally gruff and unfriendly. So we all bonded over surviving our week with him, and I adopted this redneck voice and would imitate him and the guys got a kick out of it.
We worked on a huge campus that had its own cafeteria, gym, etc. We were stuck in a huge empty room full of wall to wall cubicles away from the permanent workers, so we had the area to ourselves and it was actually one of the most fun jobs I've ever had just because of the group I was working with.
Anyway, one guy in our group was named Mohammed Hussein, and he looked the part. But he had been in the US since he was 3 and didn't have an accent and spoke perfect English. The entire group busted on one another in a variety of ways, including jokes, pranks, etc.
I told him one day that I'd come into work wearing my yarmulke and we'd go into the cafeteria holding hands together, then we'd raise our hands up in the air and I'd shout "It's ok! I took some of his land but we've worked it out, we're good now!"
Each day I'd come in and see him and say stupid stuff in my redneck "Ray" voice, like:
Hey there Ali-baba, what's a barrel of oil going for these days?
Hey there Genghis, where'd you park your horse?
What's it like being a Somali Pirate?
I want my three wishes, give em to me Genie! (he had one of those little chin beards)
It was stupid, ridiculous humor, there was no malicious intent and he would laugh his ass off and he'd rib on me too. It was all in good fun and we both got along great.
One day we were throwing paper airplanes around the cubicles, so I went over to his cubicle, slapped on my Ray voice and said "this is for 9-11 you sumbitch!" and threw the paper airplane at him. A good time was had by all. Again, dark, twisted, inappropriate humor, but no malice.
We also had one black guy in our group named Bryant. Sometimes I'd be at Mohammed's cubicle and then I'd call over to Bryant in my "Ray" voice and say "Hey Bryant, get over here, I need you to translate, I can't understand a word this guy is saying!" and he'd be like "oh, cause I've got dark skin I must speak his language?" and he'd crack up too.
At lunch I turned to Bryant and in my Ray voice said "hey Bryant, me and the guys are gonna play some hockey, we were gunna invite you, but, well............you know...." and he says "oh, cause I'm Black I can't play hockey?!" and I'm like "no, NO! Of course not, I mean, of course you could play hockey, if it was played in the sand and you wore grass skirts and instead of a hockey stick you used a spear" and he laughed and said "I hate you so much" (it should be noted we weren't playing hockey, there was no actual hockey game, Bryant wasn't being excluded from anything, it was just something we could picture Ray saying because he was a dick)
Oh yeah, there was a skinny white kid in our group and Bryant saw this really large black girl and said she was going to make him her boyfriend and then we just kept rolling with that all the time whenever we'd see her at lunch. He even said the kid wanted the "booty avalanche".
So yeah, my humor is dark and twisted and inappropriate and racial, but it's not meant with malice and these guys didn't take it that way. while we only worked together for a few months on the assignment years ago, we keep in touch to this day.
Can I see how my humor could be seen as racist by people who don't know me well? Sure. And I'm sure some of you will think I am racist because you've experienced a different set of life circumstances than I have and while this sort of humor in the mixed circle I grew up in was commonplace, obviously it wasn't in yours or this sort of humor where you grew up was meant maliciously. I can't fix that, I can try to be more aware of it, and I think from my first days at CT I've come a long way in that regard.
I think what sent everything spiraling back down recently on these boards was when all the confederate flag broo-ha-ha was taking place. I expressed outrage at apple for banning a civil war computer game from their store because they refused to remove the confederate flags from the game (uh, it's history? wtf?) It wound up getting resolved, but Butler took the opportunity to try to paint me as a racist over it and can't seem to discuss anything without resorting to name calling and insult-hurling.
Again I'll reiterate that when I first met the chippers for this meatup, it was for breakfast in a small restaurant that was moderately busy. We meet everyone and sit down, and shortly thereafter hear Guinness telling a story about his dick (I think it was about an operation, don't recall exactly). But bear in mind this guy just met me and my wife, and he's launching into this fairly graphic story, and he's telling it loud enough that other patrons are looking at us. This doesn't bother me, but it sets the tone of what I felt the groups "acceptable behavior" was.
From my recollection, the only jokes I made (outside of the stories I will share) were directed squarely at my own Jewish heritage (such as, what's the difference between a Jew and a canoe? A Jew doesn't tip! What type of brakes does a Jewish car have? Stop on the dime brakes! Why do Jews like football so much? Because the object is to get the quarter.......back)
Now on to the stories portion of my tale, which I believe is where the real issues lie.
I worked at Cigna in a temporary I.T. job. The company they contracted to handle their internal support for 35,000 nationwide employees was failing to meet its Service Level Agreements, so they brought a bunch of temps in to get caught up.
A group of us went through a week-long boot camp of sorts, and the guy who ran it was kinda a dick. His name was Ray and he'd say stuff like "you're a desktop support technician, figure it out" and was just generally gruff and unfriendly. So we all bonded over surviving our week with him, and I adopted this redneck voice and would imitate him and the guys got a kick out of it.
We worked on a huge campus that had its own cafeteria, gym, etc. We were stuck in a huge empty room full of wall to wall cubicles away from the permanent workers, so we had the area to ourselves and it was actually one of the most fun jobs I've ever had just because of the group I was working with.
Anyway, one guy in our group was named Mohammed Hussein, and he looked the part. But he had been in the US since he was 3 and didn't have an accent and spoke perfect English. The entire group busted on one another in a variety of ways, including jokes, pranks, etc.
I told him one day that I'd come into work wearing my yarmulke and we'd go into the cafeteria holding hands together, then we'd raise our hands up in the air and I'd shout "It's ok! I took some of his land but we've worked it out, we're good now!"
Each day I'd come in and see him and say stupid stuff in my redneck "Ray" voice, like:
Hey there Ali-baba, what's a barrel of oil going for these days?
Hey there Genghis, where'd you park your horse?
What's it like being a Somali Pirate?
I want my three wishes, give em to me Genie! (he had one of those little chin beards)
It was stupid, ridiculous humor, there was no malicious intent and he would laugh his ass off and he'd rib on me too. It was all in good fun and we both got along great.
One day we were throwing paper airplanes around the cubicles, so I went over to his cubicle, slapped on my Ray voice and said "this is for 9-11 you sumbitch!" and threw the paper airplane at him. A good time was had by all. Again, dark, twisted, inappropriate humor, but no malice.
We also had one black guy in our group named Bryant. Sometimes I'd be at Mohammed's cubicle and then I'd call over to Bryant in my "Ray" voice and say "Hey Bryant, get over here, I need you to translate, I can't understand a word this guy is saying!" and he'd be like "oh, cause I've got dark skin I must speak his language?" and he'd crack up too.
At lunch I turned to Bryant and in my Ray voice said "hey Bryant, me and the guys are gonna play some hockey, we were gunna invite you, but, well............you know...." and he says "oh, cause I'm Black I can't play hockey?!" and I'm like "no, NO! Of course not, I mean, of course you could play hockey, if it was played in the sand and you wore grass skirts and instead of a hockey stick you used a spear" and he laughed and said "I hate you so much" (it should be noted we weren't playing hockey, there was no actual hockey game, Bryant wasn't being excluded from anything, it was just something we could picture Ray saying because he was a dick)
Oh yeah, there was a skinny white kid in our group and Bryant saw this really large black girl and said she was going to make him her boyfriend and then we just kept rolling with that all the time whenever we'd see her at lunch. He even said the kid wanted the "booty avalanche".
So yeah, my humor is dark and twisted and inappropriate and racial, but it's not meant with malice and these guys didn't take it that way. while we only worked together for a few months on the assignment years ago, we keep in touch to this day.
Can I see how my humor could be seen as racist by people who don't know me well? Sure. And I'm sure some of you will think I am racist because you've experienced a different set of life circumstances than I have and while this sort of humor in the mixed circle I grew up in was commonplace, obviously it wasn't in yours or this sort of humor where you grew up was meant maliciously. I can't fix that, I can try to be more aware of it, and I think from my first days at CT I've come a long way in that regard.
I think what sent everything spiraling back down recently on these boards was when all the confederate flag broo-ha-ha was taking place. I expressed outrage at apple for banning a civil war computer game from their store because they refused to remove the confederate flags from the game (uh, it's history? wtf?) It wound up getting resolved, but Butler took the opportunity to try to paint me as a racist over it and can't seem to discuss anything without resorting to name calling and insult-hurling.
Chippy McChiperson
Straight Flush
Uh, I mean a lot of that stuff is pretty racist Gnu. If you have an close relationship with someone and they express that they are cool with that type of humor, I suppose it's ok. However, I doubt you had that type of relationship with anyone attending BotB, so you can hopefully see why they might react the way that they did, "wasp" or not.
grandgnu
A new beginning
Yes. I found out after i had left from chicken how it had upset people and recognize their experiences in life with this sort of humor won't match my own. Maybe they aren't comfortable when chappelle donned whiteface and used his white guy voice but i and many others found it funny and didn't feel Chappelle hated us for his jokes
And for awhile things had been pretty good online here until the confederate flag issue
I wouldn't fly the flag or buy one or hang out with people who do. But i also believe in free speech even if it's speech i disagree with
If nazis or kkk want to march they are allowed to in many places. If some idiot wants to emblazon his pickup truck with the confed flag i don't care, let him trumpet his idiocy
My issue in that whole situation was trying to ban history in a civil war computer game. Butler started saying what a horrible person i was over that thread and that is when things on here turned back to the fighting
Chippy McChiperson
Straight Flush
Your first amendment rights give you (and the kkk and nazis and Martha Stewart and everyone else) the right to say whatever the heck you want. That doesn't mean you are free from criticism for doing so.
grandgnu
A new beginning
When Chappelle dons black face and uses a white guy voice, is his humor racial, or is he a racist (i.e. he HATES white people?)
If I laugh at this humor, does this mean I'm racist and HATE white people?
If I crack a joke about Jews, having Jewish heritage, do I HATE Jews?
If I crack a joke about my height, do I HATE short people?
You guys ever watch Jeff Dunham with his Akmed the Dead Terrorist puppet and laugh at it? You must HATE all people of Arabic origin then
You can say my humor is inappropriate, offensive even. But when you call me a Racist, you imply that I HATE people based on their ethnicity, or religion or whatever. And that is just not the case. So give it a rest already.
Did I call you a racist based exclusively on your "humor"?
grandgnu
A new beginning
That was my perception after the event concluded and I was messaged and told that people felt I was a racist. What am I missing?
You stated that I called you a racist. I'm asking when I did so exclusively due to your "humor". Pretty straightforward. Feel free to post any PMs or emails if I did so there.
I will add that others certainly did have that impression at the event. I was at the other table so I only heard your more boisterous outbursts. However, one comment I remember specifically being made was by a non-CTer attendee who said to your face at the table, "I don't think that's a joke. I think that's just racist." He may have said "you're just a racist" rather than "that's just racist", but either way, it's not accurate to say as you do elsewhere that you were only made aware after the event that some of your comments might have been perceived as inappropriate.
grandgnu
A new beginning
So if it's not my jokes and stories that make me a "racist" in your eyes, what have I done that qualifies me as a "racist". Unless we have vastly different definitions of the term, I equate "racist" with someone who HATES another group of people based on ethnicity.
You know, I think you're right on this one. I vaguely remember that, I believe he did say "that's not funny that's just racist" or something along those lines. I can't remember when during the event it happened or how I responded after it.
But I didn't realize I had upset such a wide swath of people until after the event. All I can say is that my humor and stories were based on my experiences and groups of people I'm accustomed to interacting with, and other poker games I've played in. And of course the tone that was set by the graphic dick operation story told by Guinness right after he met my wife and I.
So I'm sorry that you all were offended by my humor, it wasn't my intent to offend and it was just the sort of thing that was commonplace with the mix of ethnicities I hung out with. My buddy Percy (black) in my home game in MA was always taking horrible beats and never making the money. So one night I bought a pack of kool-aid jammers (grape flavored naturally) and told him if he made the money that night he'd win the six-pack. He came in 3rd and won, and we all found it hilarious. Frank from Nicaragua brought in a pair of baby shoes and told me they were my new "kicks" because I'm like 5 foot nothing. We'd bust on our Mexican friend Jon by asking him how many oranges he sold today to make his buyin. They'd bring those gold foil covered chocolate coins and offer to pay me in shekels, etc. My buddy Rob from the Philippine's has a stutter and then when we were playing a hand suddenly it went away and so we said it must be a tell that he stops stuttering when he's got the goods! Nothing was taboo, we just busted on everyone, and it's just what I know, people not being offended, people able to laugh at themselves and laugh at others.
So yeah, when I'm called a "racist", to me it implies I hate people based on their ethnicity and it pisses me the fuck off because it's not accurate.
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Gnu this exchange began with you stating that I called you a racist. I asked you to show where I did so on the basis of your humor. You haven't. I won't defend a statement that I don't believe I made.
My recollection is that you made statements in the confederate flag thread that caused me to think you are a racist. Whether I said so explicitly I don't recall and I don't have the interest or patience to comb through that thread.
Racism does not necessarily have anything to do with hate. When I was in high school my parish priest explained to me that some ethnicities and races simply don't have the mental capacity of others and therefore they should be provided greater financial and structural support in the economy. That's not hate; that's a belief that one race is superior to another, which is the defining characteristic of racism.
Toonexile
Pair
Gnu,
You talk about modifying your behaviour, especially when you are with people that you have just met or who are new to you, yet you repeat the same stories which caused all the trouble the first time. The perception that people have of you is never going to change until/unless they see evidence of said behaviour modification.
You talk about modifying your behaviour, especially when you are with people that you have just met or who are new to you, yet you repeat the same stories which caused all the trouble the first time. The perception that people have of you is never going to change until/unless they see evidence of said behaviour modification.
grandgnu
A new beginning
Alright, I'll grant you that racism could also apply to a feeling of superiority of one race over another. I poke fun at all ethnicities as well as my own and don't recall ever making any claims of one race being better or worse than another.
So if I don't hate others based on their ethnicity and don't assign them a superiority or inferiority ranking based on their ethnicity how exactly am I a racist? Should I just start making blanket statements that you are an anti-Semite because all you do is grief me at every opportunity?
grandgnu
A new beginning
I don't expect to change the opinions of those from the BBotB III, I just intend to fully disclose my side of the story for others who are hearing me being called a racist and have no context in regards to why.
Toonexile
Pair
But the more you repeat it, the more it appears that you are desperately trying to hang onto a losing argument.
Are you going to repeat the same things over and over until someone agrees with you and then triumphantly shout 'A-ha! I knew it wasn't racist'?
I visit here less and less now (and very rarely visit BigBlue) because of the 'schoolyard drama' threads. I knew I shouldn't have opened this one........
grandgnu
A new beginning
So then your conclusion is that I am a racist?
kirchhausen
Flush
So whether your humor was racist or racial I think everyone can agree that you offended many people at the BBOB. Perhaps if you threw in an apology instead of digging your heels in and defending yourself you wouldn't have everyone piling on.
Toonexile
Pair
I made my views quite clear at the time on BigBlue, when I tried to explain to you how your stories could be perceived to be racist but certainly constituted unprofessional behaviour in the workplace which could result in written warnings and even dismissal.
I am not going to enter into any further discussion as I do not want to be dragged into your personal battles with other members here
grandgnu
A new beginning
I did apologize after that back on the blue wall, as my intent wasn't to offend anyone. Things had settled down with the BBotB group for awhile, and only recently re-escalated when they piled on in a few of my threads, painting me as an evil horrible person because I gave a reduced tip for poor service and because I adopted a silly persona with a telemarketer that called my work.
They take whatever I say and exaggerate or misquote or misconstrue it, and come in their large group to establish a mob mentality to badger me. THEY are the trolls. If they don't like my threads or my posts, they can simply ignore them. They chose not to, and instead follow me around attempting to stir up trouble. THEY are the ones who need help, not I. Look at the thread that Chicken Rob created just to insult me. I didn't even respond to it fwiw.
grandgnu
A new beginning
So I guess I should take a page out of the book and just ignore the trolls. I've got them on ignore now and won't waste anymore of my time on this foolishness. I've said what I've got to say, people can make up their own minds as they see fit. I'm done discussing it.
I don't even know why I care but you certainly do yourself no favors on these boards Gnu. You seem to have a cycle of offend, explain, apologize (remember the old olive branch at CT). The cherry on top of the whole BBOTB thing was your sick brag thread of how you won a hundred bucks or something off a bunch of guys who would bet $100 on where a fly would land. To the casual reader it was cringe-worthy. As a complete outsider I suspect you lack some social skills (understatement) and you just try too damn hard to fit in. It seems like where ever you land all your friends love your ethnic jokes and send 'em right back at ya! This is typically not the case in society at large IMO. Even if there is no malice in your humor you need to back it down.
Anyway good luck, and to use a poker term it might help if you try to get a better read on your audience before you go off. And for gosh sakes if you go to this event just relax and don't try to "fit in" and attract attention to yourself.
FWIW if I was going to Fla. Gnu would not stop me, but I'd be uncertain if I'd want to hang out with him anywhere other than the poker table.
Anyway good luck, and to use a poker term it might help if you try to get a better read on your audience before you go off. And for gosh sakes if you go to this event just relax and don't try to "fit in" and attract attention to yourself.
FWIW if I was going to Fla. Gnu would not stop me, but I'd be uncertain if I'd want to hang out with him anywhere other than the poker table.
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