As soon as my chips come. I'm still waiting on shipping confirmation from seller. Holiday weekend slowed things down a bit.
Flattening Warped Chips (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter ski_ex5
- Start date
Saditsfact
Pair
Damnit... I didn't go back to the bookmark and bought the 10" bessie instead of the 12"...During the summer, I started to feel out the process of flattening some chips that i have, and like most people, I've tried out different methods posted here. I finally settled on what seems to work best for me to get consistent and lasting results. Some of the info is repeating the OP and others who've posted here:
DISCLAIMER: I've only used this method on Paulson THC hot stamp chips only so far. Everyone's oven will be different - some will heat up quicker and hold the heat longer.
- Chip & Clamp setup used for 20x chips (one barrel total):
- 21 chip - 43mm ribbed Chip Flattening Rack @One Eyed Dollar
- 12" POWERTEC Handscrew Clamp (These work just as fine as the Bessey and are one of the more affordable options at the moment; 2x @ $42. I also have a 12" Bessey but prices on those have spiked recently).
- 22x 43mm Blank Ceramic spacers (available from @BR Pro Poker)
- I prefer the 12" clamp and the 43mm blanks setup for a couple of reasons:
- It allows for clearance all around the chip/spacers (see pic #3 & #4), and the clamps lay flat on the oven racks without having the chips or spacers touch the metal, which makes me more comfortable.
- You're able to get more torque and even pressure when tightening (don't need to kill it though) and the 12" clamps tend to stay in place better than the 10" or less versions (all sizes of clamps will need tightening directly after baking and periodically while cooling imo, you'll need to tighten the clamp less often when using a 12").
- Note: This set up and the placement of the chips/spacers will not work with a 10" clamp using the 43mm spacers, you'll only be able to fit one row (10x chips) in between the tightening screws.
- Temperature and time (I've been using a standard, non-convection Hotpoint brand oven - means there's no fan inside the oven):
- I don't use my oven's temperature settings. I use a Polder thermometer probe and suspend the probe inside my oven (similar to @BSteck's setup), making sure the probe doesn't touch anything to get a more accurate temperature inside my oven.
- Target range is 130F to ~160F with a goal of keeping it ~140F for at least 45-60 minutes (w/o opening the oven door constantly).
- I use a temperature range, because it's nearly impossible for me to maintain an exact temperature for an extended period of time with my oven (as with most of our ovens). Instead, I do the following:
- I pre-heat my oven until the probe temp hits 143F then shut it off; the temperature will continue to rise to ~155-160F after I shut off my oven and then steadily decrease thereafter.
- Depending on the ambient temperature in my kitchen, it takes about 15 minutes for the internal oven temp to reach 130F on the probe - at this time, I'll turn on my oven again until the temp hits 143F again, shut it off and repeat this step 2 more times.
- Don't freak out if you accidently allow the temperature to go above this range. You can always open the door to release some heat and bring down the temperature quicker.
- I know some may think my temperature settings/recommendations are too high, but please see below for my reasoning.
- As mentioned above, I keep the internal temperature of my oven between 130F and 160F. I've done this for +1,000 chips so far with no damage to any of my chips. I've hit an oven temp as high as 170F for some batches with no ill effects; however, I don't recommend going over 160F. I think it's not necessary to heat the chips at that high of a temperature.
- I'm comfortable between 130F to 160F with a goal of keeping it around 140F, because even though the oven temp might seem high, the estimated outside temperature of the chips is still within the ~120F-130F range. The internal temp of the chips/spacers might be a bit higher than this range, but again, I have not had a problem so far. I've used this process on very used chips to Near Mint chips. The snapshots below were taken as soon as i opened the oven door at two different points during my heating process:
(pic taken directly out of the oven)
- Cooling:
- Right after taking the clamps from the oven, I tighten them down. No need to kill it or tighten the clams as much as possible - I just tighten them until i feel there's pressure on the chips again. Everything expands a bit in the oven, and the clamps tend to loosen slightly.
- As the chips continue to cool, I continue to tighten the clamps slightly - especially every 3-5 minutes for the first ~20 minutes after removing them from the heat. After this ~20 minute period, i tighten the clamp periodically just in case, but most of the time it's not necessary, especially after an hour of cooling.
- I let the chips completely cool to room temperature before removing from the clamps - usually takes ~3-5 hours, depending on the ambient temperature in my kitchen.
- I have tried speeding up this process by using a small fan and more tightening of the clamps in a shorter period of time, but I felt I got better results by letting them cool down naturally.
- I haven't seen too much of a difference between cooling to room temp and leaving them in the clamp for hours more; however, it doesn't hurt to keep them in the clamp for as long as you'd like. My heating process is longer than most, so the cooling time is already extended, but with that said, i have kept chips to cool for 24+ hours with the same or similar results as cooling to room temp.
Example results:
- Before heating/clamping next to a Mint barrel
- After the process next to the same Mint barrel, and then next to another pre-flattened barrel
NOTES and observations/opinions
- For my oven, heating at 120F for 20-30 minutes did not yield lasting results IMO. After cooling at room temp, some chips had flattened but there were a few that refused to flatten. Even running the same barrel again with the same process, I yielded the same results.
- For me, the process that i described above has yielded nearly all flat chips after the first pass; however, there are still the outlier chips that will need a second run.
- Keeping constant pressure and tightening the clamps while cooling is important.
- The first batch of 400 chips that i tested this process on, were all very used and very warped chips. Of the first 400 chips, nearly all needed a second run. A month after the second run, I notice that some chips reverted back to being slightly warped again - these were probably the ones that had the most extreme bends; however, 3 months later, the vast majority of this batch remains flat and stack really well.
- After utilizing this process on many chips afterwards, I noticed that regardless if the chip is very casino used or Near Mint - if the chip has extreme warping, it's possible to get them completely flat, but most likely there's a chance that they will eventually show some slight warpage as time goes on. From my experience, when these chips do revert back a bit, they haven't returned to the extreme warped state that they were previously in.
- This has happened in as short of a period of 24-48 hours after removing them from the clamp. Some have taken a week or longer to show signs of warping.
- The clamping times for these batch were the same as mentioned above - a minimum of 3-5 hours (cooled to room temp) and as long as 24+ hours. FWIW, the few chips that showed signs of warping again after 24-48 were NM and clamped for 24+ hours.
- Highly recommend cleaning beforehand, especially if you use an ultrasonic cleaner. I haven't seen consistent proof of this, but the one batch I did flatten first, then cleaned with an u/s cleaner, i noticed that the warping had returned to quite a few chips after a pre-soak and bath in the u/s.
Also can I still get the 3d printed mold from @One Eyed Dollar?
I also only bought 21 of the 43 mm spacers...
Cheap hand clamps are way easier anyway, and you don’t risk over-tightening. Warm chips are soft and need very little pressure.
Saditsfact
Pair
Do you have the order link for the ones you use?
I like using the other clamps for cleaning the sides with the magic eraser
You can get them at the big box stores, but I have a number of them from Harbor Freight. At $1.99 for the 4” ones, the price can’t be beat. If you get 4 to 6 clamps, it doesn’t take too long to do a lot of chips.Do you have the order link for the ones you use?
I like using the other clamps for cleaning the sides with the magic eraser
You can get their larger clamps if you prefer, still at great prices.
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-...MI8ve7zqKqhQMVcGFHAR33gwbmEAQYBCABEgJ2X_D_BwE
Saditsfact
Pair
Thank you I will have to check this place out when I get back from vacation
Bigbluff81
Flush
If there is an expert and a gambler.
I got a chip there need some flattening.
Could double or triple your investment.
Shoot me a dm if interested...
I got a chip there need some flattening.
Could double or triple your investment.
Shoot me a dm if interested...
Bigbluff81
Flush
Two last ones sold for $120 and $150.
I haven't tried flattering and are in EU.
The chip in US.
Do us both a favor a shoot me a dm.
How do those plastic clamps hold up in the oven?
Especially the harbor freight cheapos?
They don't warp or melt in the oven?
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Saditsfact
Pair
I think they do the hot blanket method? So they don’t put the plastic clamps in the oven?
Saditsfact
Pair
I mean heating pad… lol
Ah heating pad. hmm. Didn't know that would heat them even enough. Blow dryer may work then and be more even heat.
Saditsfact
Pair
Haven’t tried it yet, but will. I ordered the one they specified but they gave me the wrong one… then they decided I could keep the one they shipped me and refunded me the cost
So I’ll try it, I have a heat gun and a probe I can use for temperature readings
If you lay the chips out in one layer then fold over the heating pad, they heat up very quickly. I leave it for 10 minutes, but 5 is probably enough as well.
I wouldn’t use a hair dryer, very difficult to control how hot it is making the chips.
I'd be afraid to use heat gun. They get pretty hot. Unless at a decent distance.
So the chips are hot when placing in the clamping tray?
I'd be afraid of tray warping or melting if too hot.
I'm going to try making a silicone version that can handle any amount or type of heat.
Chips shouldn’t get any higher than 150. Even that may be a bit much. I can’t imagine that’s hot enough to cause damage to the tray.
Saditsfact
Pair
Sorry I meant a gun to read temperatures… sorry I probably used the wrong term
Probably better to be on the safe side with silicone, the thought of plastic getting into my leaded paulsons disgusts me lol
Saditsfact
Pair
Typically PLA but have some PETG on hand I can try out in the mean time until I figure out the silicone version.
From a quick search PLA starts to deform around 150*F
PETG around 190*F
It may not be an issue.
I'm curious what One-eyeddollar made his out of or if anyone had issues with those.
Two main methods I know of-
1- Heat chips on heating pad, cookie sheet, or other warm surface.
Put warm chips in spacers.
Clamp chips
Remove clamped chips from spacer and keep clamped until cool.
2- Put chips in spacers.
Clamp chips.
Heat in oven while clamped but out of spacer.
Let cool while clamped after heating.
1st method is probably best from standpoint of evenly heating chips
Did some tests today to determine if my PLA flattening rack spacer tray could withstand the heat of hot chips being placed on them for clamping if using the 1st method.
Test 1
Ceramics heated to ~150*F then placed in spacer rack until cool.
Normally the chips would be removed from tray after clamping but I did not clamp since I was only using the ceramic chips and wanted to test worst case scenario leaving the chips on tray.
Result- No change to tray. perfectly fine.
Test 2
Ceramics heated to ~190*F
Temp reading of chips at 178*F after all placed in tray. The ceramics are hot to touch but no gloves needed unless you have delicate hands.
They cool fairly quickly. Within 10 minutes the ceramics were under 100*F
Result- tray perfectly fine, no change.
Test 3
Same as test 2 but heated tray at same time until ceramics reached 190*F.
Tray was starting to soften slightly but only warped when I physically twisted it.
I twisted it back straight as I could then set 190*F ceramics in the tray slots until cool.
Result- No visible change to tray slots and only slight warp mark on back side of tray from twisting it on purpose.
Final thought-
PLA should be perfectly fine for flattening trays if chips are 200* F or under when placed in them for a short time while clamping.
Above that temp may be risking warping of tray.
I will make a few test runs of the trays in PETG which is a little higher temp resistant than PLA. Best guess is those should be fine up to approximately 250* F.
1- Heat chips on heating pad, cookie sheet, or other warm surface.
Put warm chips in spacers.
Clamp chips
Remove clamped chips from spacer and keep clamped until cool.
2- Put chips in spacers.
Clamp chips.
Heat in oven while clamped but out of spacer.
Let cool while clamped after heating.
1st method is probably best from standpoint of evenly heating chips
Did some tests today to determine if my PLA flattening rack spacer tray could withstand the heat of hot chips being placed on them for clamping if using the 1st method.
Test 1
Ceramics heated to ~150*F then placed in spacer rack until cool.
Normally the chips would be removed from tray after clamping but I did not clamp since I was only using the ceramic chips and wanted to test worst case scenario leaving the chips on tray.
Result- No change to tray. perfectly fine.
Test 2
Ceramics heated to ~190*F
Temp reading of chips at 178*F after all placed in tray. The ceramics are hot to touch but no gloves needed unless you have delicate hands.
They cool fairly quickly. Within 10 minutes the ceramics were under 100*F
Result- tray perfectly fine, no change.
Test 3
Same as test 2 but heated tray at same time until ceramics reached 190*F.
Tray was starting to soften slightly but only warped when I physically twisted it.
I twisted it back straight as I could then set 190*F ceramics in the tray slots until cool.
Result- No visible change to tray slots and only slight warp mark on back side of tray from twisting it on purpose.
Final thought-
PLA should be perfectly fine for flattening trays if chips are 200* F or under when placed in them for a short time while clamping.
Above that temp may be risking warping of tray.
I will make a few test runs of the trays in PETG which is a little higher temp resistant than PLA. Best guess is those should be fine up to approximately 250* F.
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Saditsfact
Pair
Anybody else try this method or close?
Curious if this may be safest easiest way to not overheat and get a constant temp.
Bring a pot of water to boil.
Toss chips in a strainer and submerge. (by putting in strainer they won't risk getting too hot being on bottom of pan)
Stir a few times.
Place chips in PETG flattening rack.
Clamp, remove from rack and let cool.
I bet a lot of chips could be done quickly that way and clean them at the same time.
Lmk if anyone needs 43mm or larger ceramics or PETG flattening racks.
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First off, boiling water is WAY too hot.
I came up with the heating pad solution after trying warm water to heat chips. I also didn’t want to do the oven because it appeared to take a long time.
The problem with using warm water is getting it to a consistent temperature and keeping it there. It was a huge hassle.
Hmm.
Put it on high in a big pot so it don't boil over and let it keep boiling. Maybe turn down stove burner a few notches between batches?
Water boils at 212*f (earlier posts said they used 250* and above.
Dunking 11 ceramics and 10 warped chips for 30 seconds or a minute swish around, clamp and repeat sounds like it would be faster than a heating pad.
Wish I had some warped chips to try.
Maybe I'll try it out with all ceramics just as a test run.
I failed to notice that you were doing this on ceramic chips. Are your ceramics that warped?
No. I don't own any warped chips.
I could try it on good chips but would be wasting time. Just as easy to use the blanks I have on hand since I'd be using 11 ceramic 43mm as spacers anyways I can use 10x 39mm ceramics taking place of the warped chips
Nanook
Full House
Anyone know where is the best place to get 43mm blanks now? I have plenty of 39, but I have a few racks of 43mm chips so I need bigger ones
I'm probably the cheapest.
35c a chip or buy the kit.
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/sparkynutz-storage-solutions-and-3d-printing.116680/
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