Facing Donk Bets (1 Viewer)

[tsossong18]

Something that I have been struggling against recently is facing donk bets from the same players. I have run into this live and online within the past month. In the live game (1/3, very deep...avg stack 200-250BB, big stack 750BB), and online ($50 WSOP bracelet SNG qualifier). I didn't have as much trouble with the online player, however it was clear to me that both were fish. I know the live player was getting very lucky against me...A8 >> AK A82 flop, A8 >> AQss 862ss flop...he was calling large 3 bets ($60 w/ $90 in pot, $50 for him to call after limping $10 button straddle...hero's straddle and raise). These boards for the most part played themselves out. I was pretty stunned when he jammed 250 into 150 on the 862 flop w/ just top pair. He's obviously crushed against a lot of my 3 betting range and when I don't hold overs and the nut flush draw he just wins the pot...but what I'm most curious about is how to handle the donk bets when I miss and the boards are semi dry. It's always easy to handle donk bets when you hit.

Sorry for the long prelude. I am not looking for any feedback/criticism on the hands I described. I have gone over those situations many times and have come to understand those. I understand that there is a time where donk betting is valuable (setting a cheap price for yourself to draw, don't want to call but have value/potentially can get a fold) and have donk betting as a part of my strategy. However, I have found myself playing against players who will call any raise preflop and will lead any flop. How do you handle the flops where you miss the board? What is your overall strategy against donk betters like this? Maybe I already know the correct answer to my own question (patience and value town them/let them hang themselves) but when facing a button clicky donk bettor I have been getting frustrated and it is certainly preventing me from playing my A game and calling down lightly. Looking for good discussion. Thanks in advance

 

[JTBass]

if you in against donks who call anything, and you dont hit more than top pair on the flop. check and save your chips for a better spot. maybe bet the flop but slow down if they call you.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

I face this every Friday, and I understand your frustration. Your situation may be different, but my donkeys are the same 3 or 4 players (out of 16 to 20) each week, so my strategy is straight forward. Stick to my game and count on the odds working out over time.

We run a cash game tournament from Labor day through Super Bowl Sunday, so I get to see the donkies cumulative wins / losses over time. Pretty straight forward scoring. Losses for the night count negative against your total cumulative score and winnings count positive. Trust me...donkies never even come close to being at the top of the leader board.

My wife gets very frustrated and has started to play infrequently, or will avoid the table with the biggest donkies. I keep telling her that if she doesn't play against them regularly, the odds can't work. Plus...she only remembers the times the donkies get lucky. Try this if you haven't already. Count the number of times the donkies get crushed. That always makes me feel better

Good luck!!

 

[detroitdad]

On occasion one of my friends (looking at @Azcat ) goes into ultra aggressive mode with betting almost every hand pre flop, flop, and sometimes turn and river. Sometimes it works for him. Sometimes it doesn't. When he gets into this mode I wait for the right spot, and when I play back at him I play it very hard and fast.

Now that I mention this. He hasn't gone into this mode the last few sessions that we have played together, hmmmmm.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Something that I have been struggling against recently is facing donk bets from the same players. I have run into this live and online within the past month. In the live game (1/3, very deep...avg stack 200-250BB, big stack 750BB), and online ($50 WSOP bracelet SNG qualifier). I didn't have as much trouble with the online player, however it was clear to me that both were fish. I know the live player was getting very lucky against me...A8 >> AK A82 flop, A8 >> AQss 862ss flop...he was calling large 3 bets ($60 w/ $90 in pot, $50 for him to call after limping $10 button straddle...hero's straddle and raise). These boards for the most part played themselves out. I was pretty stunned when he jammed 250 into 150 on the 862 flop w/ just top pair. He's obviously crushed against a lot of my 3 betting range and when I don't hold overs and the nut flush draw he just wins the pot...but what I'm most curious about is how to handle the donk bets when I miss and the boards are semi dry. It's always easy to handle donk bets when you hit.

Sorry for the long prelude. I am not looking for any feedback/criticism on the hands I described. I have gone over those situations many times and have come to understand those. I understand that there is a time where donk betting is valuable (setting a cheap price for yourself to draw, don't want to call but have value/potentially can get a fold) and have donk betting as a part of my strategy. However, I have found myself playing against players who will call any raise preflop and will lead any flop. How do you handle the flops where you miss the board? What is your overall strategy against donk betters like this? Maybe I already know the correct answer to my own question (patience and value town them/let them hang themselves) but when facing a button clicky donk bettor I have been getting frustrated and it is certainly preventing me from playing my A game and calling down lightly. Looking for good discussion. Thanks in advance

It's ok to fold. It's ok to float too, especially if you have some decent draws (or backdoor combo draws). Do these guys usually double barrel when they donk-bet? Are they able to fold top pair type hands when you flat on the flop and raise the turn? If no, they should be paying you off when you have monsters, so just fold when you miss, and play your big hands accordingly. If you find you're not getting value out of your big hands in these situations, throw in some bluffs when you don't have it from time to time. Even if you get caught a couple times don't let it get you down, because you're probably changing your image, and you might get called more lightly in the future if they're even somewhat paying attention.

 

[tsossong18]

It's ok to fold. It's ok to float too, especially if you have some decent draws (or backdoor combo draws). Do these guys usually double barrel when they donk-bet? Are they able to fold top pair type hands when you flat on the flop and raise the turn? If no, they should be paying you off when you have monsters, so just fold when you miss, and play your big hands accordingly. If you find you're not getting value out of your big hands in these situations, throw in some bluffs when you don't have it from time to time. Even if you get caught a couple times don't let it get you down, because you're probably changing your image, and you might get called more lightly in the future if they're even somewhat paying attention.

This is pretty much what I did to adjust to just playing aggressive against him. I started just giving up when he would lead and I didn't have decent equity, but on boards that didn't make a lot of sense and having overs I would float. He mostly would give up on turns which became an interesting dynamic, following by leading rivers. Most rivers he would be betting any pair including 2nd or 3rd pair on totally unconnected boards/runouts. I learned this info by watching him do it against others as well as against me while calling with 2nd pair or A high a few times. While it was tilting in general I'm not results oriented and realized during the session he was going to keep making bad plays and that I just needed to wait to hit against him...just turned out to be one of those sessions where I was the only person who couldn't beat him.

My next question stems from this situation: We start folding more often as opposed to floating just looking to pick better spots when we miss. Villain is calling our pre flop raises in the BB and donking every flop, and we just so happen to miss all these boards/don't have great equity. Maybe not at 1/3 level but say 2/5 or higher villain thinks a little more and remains aggressive when HU against us. He can't be hitting every board but knows we are folding a ton. We can't wait forever to trap/make a strong hand. How do you handle a higher level thinking aggressive player?

In general I take donk bets as a weak bet, hands with some sort of equity but would rather not call. That is how I play them and how I have seen them for the most part. Against most opponents at the 1/3 level where I have encountered donk betting it has been very straight forward on how to play against them. In the particular session I brought up there was another player who I had played against before who liked to donk. His donks were mostly w/ blockers and draws and worked against most players in the games I played with him. He did mix in the occasional value owning himself donks which just showed how bad he is. The more I think about it the more I think I know the answer myself against the particular villain I brought up. Patience. Which is what you all are saying as well. Maybe I just let the results of the few hands he outdrew me on tilt my reflections of the session. I appreciate everyone's response. Looks like for the most part we can all agree to pick the correct spots and have patience.

 

[Wils]

If you find you're not getting value out of your big hands in these situations, throw in some bluffs when you don't have it from time to time. Even if you get caught a couple times don't let it get you down, because you're probably changing your image, and you might get called more lightly in the future if they're even somewhat paying attention.

If you don't get caught bluffing now and again you're doing something wrong

 

[detroitdad]

If you don't get caught bluffing now and again you're doing something wrong

tru dat. At least that is what I keep telling myself.

 

[Mockk]

If you don't get caught bluffing now and again you're doing something wrong

Most definitely! I sometimes think I am bluffing too much, but in the games I play I get caught less than I pull in the pot and I don't mind getting caught with rags now and again!