Playing against a donk lead on a paired board flop (2 Viewers)

[ngmcs8203]

I posted this on 2+2 but I know not everyone here visits that forum.

This is a hand played in a $1/2/3 game at M8trix Casino last night. Effective stack is $325 and I had the table covered. I had been card dead for the night except the last 10 minutes so my image was probably 10/10/5 at this point.

We were 9-handed and the opposite side of the table was the splashy side. In this hand that side of the table was the BTN-UTG. They were the side of the table that would call down or bet any board, overcards or draws. They'd go to showdown heads-up in a $150 pot with Q8 suited and take pots from each other with a pair of 8s on the river. My side was definitely tighter (OMC two to my right, super TAGs on either side of me).

UTG opened for $15 and it folds to Hero in UTG+2 with . I raise to $45.

Middle blind and UTG calls. Pot: $135

Flop:

MB checks, BB leads for $30. At this point the lead here was super fishy. He had done this a few times to try and take down pots and it worked when my side of the table was in the blinds with nothing strong. Hero raises by sliding out a barrel of $5s. Dealer counts out $105. Whoops stacks were not right, oh well.

Folds to the BB who thinks for about a minute before jamming for his remaining $250. Pot: $520

Hero was getting about 4.5:1. I put him on a range of 22-77, 99, TT, QQ, Q9+, and any jack except J8. I suck at equity calculations so I just did an estimation of how many hands I beat and how many I'd lose to. I didn't feel like he'd play an 8, pocket jacks or even AA/KK that aggressively, so with that jam I felt like I was even more ahead than if he had just flatted. AJ with a backdoor flush draw felt like a premium in the moment. Raising with a premium when faced with a donk lead on a board where I should have more nuts than him seemed like the right thing to do. This was the biggest pot of the night at the table so I took a couple of minutes to think it through.

Hero?

 

[Santa123]

Call

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

Dude, an 88x flop is always Quads...
"2 small pair. Eights & eights!"

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

UTG opened, you raised, and one of the blinds called and UTG called. Do you have your positions off when you mention SB and BB? Just making sure I understand, in my head UTG is BB and the preflop raiser is the one betting and shoving, correct me if I'm wrong.

You said he's done this to take down pots, has he had to show his hand? Reraising all in after getting raised on both streets, hmmmhrrhgfnvb. Some bad players just decide to roll their eyes and shove if they've already decided to be aggressive, but waiting a full minute to do so is less spazzy.

Annoying but I probably call sans other reads, another $150 into that pot isn't going to kill me. You lose to 98, 88, 87, A8s, JJ, would he do this with AK/AQ or reraise pre-flop? You beat other Aces, JT, KJ, QJ, T9, random broadways that he's sick of playing.


Any other reads on this guy? Took you several minutes, what's he doing? How did he shove? I'm a broken record with these types of questions but just curious if you picked something up, love low stakes for that reason.

 

[ngmcs8203]

UTG opened, you raised, and one of the blinds called and UTG called. Do you have your positions off when you mention SB and BB? Just making sure I understand, in my head UTG is BB and the preflop raiser is the one betting and shoving, correct me if I'm wrong.

You said he's done this to take down pots, has he had to show his hand? Reraising all in after getting raised on both streets, hmmmhrrhgfnvb. Some bad players just decide to roll their eyes and shove if they've already decided to be aggressive, but waiting a full minute to do so is less spazzy.

Annoying but I probably call sans other reads, another $150 into that pot isn't going to kill me. You lose to 98, 88, 87, A8s, JJ, would he do this with AK/AQ or reraise pre-flop? You beat other Aces, JT, KJ, QJ, T9, random broadways that he's sick of playing.


Any other reads on this guy? Took you several minutes, what's he doing? How did he shove? I'm a broken record with these types of questions but just curious if you picked something up, love low stakes for that reason.

This is a 3 blind game. BTN is the SB, then you have the middle blind first to act post-flop and then the big blind. UTG in this hand is UTG and I am 2 seats to his left.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

This is a 3 blind game. BTN is the SB, then you have the middle blind first to act post-flop and then the big blind. UTG in this hand is UTG and I am 2 seats to his left.

But you change from calling someone the middle blind to referring to SB and BB? Just keep it consistent throughout the hand, or makeup a name for them for all I care lol. If BTN owes a $1, he's still the BTN.

"Middle Blind and UTG call the bet of $45"

"SB checks, BB leads out..."

Soooo the middle blind becomes the small blind for the sake of the hand history?

 

[ngmcs8203]

Ah my bad. This is why you don't post before coffee. MB = SB

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Ah my bad. This is why you don't post before coffee. MB = SB

Not a worry, didn't mean to be pedantic, just wanted to make sure I understood order of events.

 

[ngmcs8203]

You said he's done this to take down pots, has he had to show his hand?

Any other reads on this guy? Took you several minutes, what's he doing? How did he shove? I'm a broken record with these types of questions but just curious if you picked something up, love low stakes for that reason.

Hasn't had to show his hand when doing that, just pure aggression when the rest of the players check to him. I'd do it too with just about anything in his position. When I was thinking he was just focused on the board. Nothing special. It did pain him to shove. One of those "oh well" shoves that OMCs do when they limp-shove with AA. This guy was no more than 30 years old, headphones in but showed down some bad hands. That Q8s hand was him.

 

[MichaelBubly]

Gross. Don't think you can ever fold for that price though. Especially with back door diamonds. Seems like an 8 a lot, but I think give the fact he still has AJ, KJ suited, QJs, 109s, and even some J10 or J9s. You lose to 1x combo of Jacks, 1x combo of A8s, 2x combos of 89s and 78s,1x 88. Depending on the player he could at a super low frequency have slow played QQ. Losing to 8 combos. Maybe expanding a bit if the guy calling 3! out of position wider. But for that price you just have to call.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Was going to wait a little longer but figured some of you might be interested in the results.

Spoiler: Reveal the outcome

I end up calling. The runout is

He emphatically tables

Poker is alive and well.

 

[RagingAZN]

GRUNCH.

I think I prefer to call on the flop, if he has an 8 we’re toast anyway but by raising it lets him fold all his worse hands and continue with only hands that we’re way behind. The only draw is T9 and we have the backdoor diamonds. You say that he has done that donk lead a few times to steal the pots as well. There’s not too many cards that can come that we really don’t like (non-diamond K, Q or 7 is about it really).

Calling his $30 makes the pot $200 and you have $250 behind so easy to play for stacks on the turn.

 

[ngmcs8203]

GRUNCH.

I think I prefer to call on the flop, if he has an 8 we’re toast anyway but by raising it lets him fold all his worse hands and continue with only hands that we’re way behind. The only draw is T9 and we have the backdoor diamonds. You say that he has done that donk lead a few times to steal the pots as well. There’s not too many cards that can come that we really don’t like (non-diamond K, Q or 7 is about it really).

Calling his $30 makes the pot $200 and you have $250 behind so easy to play for stacks on the turn.

Yea I thought about a call too but I had actually been studying this spot as the PF aggressor earlier in the day and it’s actually a raise spot on the flop when a player donk leads. Little discusses a similar configuration too and says it’s a raise spot. I think his video was J66 and HJ vs UTG, so close enough.