COPAQ v KEM v others (1 Viewer)

try Spinettis, geting them from Italy might be expensive
 
CdnBeerLover said:
Those are poker size, though.

I tried looking, but could not find bridge size acetate other than Kem.
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Yeah, I don't like anything besides bridge size so I probably aren't going to branch out much further. Can't imagine acetate makes THAT much of a difference.
 
Still prefer Fournier (and Fournier-made Bicycle Prestige) jumbo index bridge size over all others.

I loaded up when the Bikes were $8/set-up.

Fuck warp-prone Kems and fuck Modiano with their shitty company policies. Copag ink fades too quickly for my taste, gave them up over a decade ago.
 
BGinGA said:
Still prefer Fournier (and Fournier-made Bicycle Prestige) jumbo index bridge size over all others.

I loaded up when the Bikes were $8/set-up.

Fuck warp-prone Kems and fuck Modiano with their shitty company policies. Copag ink fades too quickly for my taste, gave them up over a decade ago.
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Got a preferred place to purchase from?
 
I bought a setup of Copags last year and the smell was awful....like burned plastic. REALLY strong, and even left out from time to time, they still stink.
I have just one setup of newer KEMs and theyre fantastic, not warped at all. My favorite new cards, but I'm cautious about buying more because of the price and the threat of getting warped ones.
My all-time favorite is a setup of vintage KEMs from 1961. Super flexible and shuffle so silky smooth and effortless, I havent felt any cards like them.
The best bang-for-the-buck is still the used Fournier (branded as Bicycle) 2012 WSOP cards on eBay. $20 shipped for 4 setups.
 
Colquhoun said:
I bought a setup of Copags last year and the smell was awful....like burned plastic. REALLY strong, and even left out from time to time, they still stink.
I have just one setup of newer KEMs and theyre fantastic, not warped at all. My favorite new cards, but I'm cautious about buying more because of the price and the threat of getting warped ones.
My all-time favorite is a setup of vintage KEMs from 1961. Super flexible and shuffle so silky smooth and effortless, I havent felt any cards like them.
The best bang-for-the-buck is still the used Fournier (branded as Bicycle) 2012 WSOP cards on eBay. $20 shipped for 4 setups.
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Sounds intriguing but if you like Kem a lot I have to ask if the Fournier cards you are speaking of are similar because I'm not very fond of Kems; too flimsy and loose for my tastes, and I did have one of my Kem decks warp in a pretty shockingly quick time frame.
 
RagahRagah said:
Sounds intriguing but if you like Kem a lot I have to ask if the Fournier cards you are speaking of are similar because I'm not very fond of Kems; too flimsy and loose for my tastes, and I did have one of my Kem decks warp in a pretty shockingly quick time frame.
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The Fournier WSOP cards are quite a bit stiffer. Even though they dont flex as easy as I'd like, the price definitely makes it easier to look past it.
If you like stiffer cards, give them a try.
 
Colquhoun said:
The Fournier WSOP cards are quite a bit stiffer. Even though they dont flex as easy as I'd like, the price definitely makes it easier to look past it.
If you like stiffer cards, give them a try.
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Yeah it’s funny how many people will mention fournier as a Kem alternative because fourniers are noticeably stiffer.
 
Re:Copag: There is quite a big difference between Copags made in Brazil (terrible cards imo, slippery as hell and they stink) and Copags made in Belgium (decent cards, only available in Poker size though).
 
RagahRagah said:
Yeah, I don't like anything besides bridge size so I probably aren't going to branch out much further. Can't imagine acetate makes THAT much of a difference.
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In my opinion, it doesn't. I have Modiano Platinum and Kem cards in poker size, and I prefer Fournier and Desjgn cards over them.

For bridge/jumbo, opinions will vary, but the brands you will hear are Fournier (only available in Europe, sometimes appear on eBay), Bicycle Prestige (limited run, no longer made), Desjgn, and Cartamundi (sometimes pop up on Amazon). To my knowledge, all are non-acetate.

I have used the Fournier and Desjgn cards in bridge/jumbo, and they are nice cards. From a flexibility point of view, they hit a sweet spot for me. They are both more flexible than Modianos but less flexible than Copag, and certainly less flexible than Kem. Everyone has different tastes, though, so the only way to know if they would work for you is to try them.
 
I like Copag for availability and design options, but they're not exactly plush feeling. They're an easily replaceable workhorse. Some of my friends are blind-ish, and like the jumbo 4 color which are save day delivery from Amazon. I also beat them up in my automatic shufflers. I imagine I'll give them away as door prizes at my league championship at the end of every season (every 6 months). Or sell them on here for deals.

For hand shuffle/dealing I do like Kems when they're not warped, and Fournier. I don't really want to put them in the shufflers though. If I upgrade to Deckmate2s I might change my tune.
 
upNdown said:
Yeah it’s funny how many people will mention fournier as a Kem alternative because fourniers are noticeably stiffer.
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I would never categorize Fournier as being close the KEM in handling. KEM's shuffle velvety smooth and are almost a little too limp. Fournier are stiff and slippery and create a very crisp shuffle. I hated Fourniers at first but I've come to appreciate a more robust shuffle. The closest I've found to KEM handling is Angel followed by Desjgn.
 
davefr said:
I would never categorize Fournier as being close the KEM in handling. KEM's shuffle velvety smooth and are almost a little too limp. Fournier are stiff and slippery and create a very crisp shuffle. I hated Fourniers at first but I've come to appreciate a more robust shuffle. The closest I've found to KEM handling is Angel followed by Desjgn.
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I agree completely about fournier - stiff and slippery. But otherwise great.
But people keep mentioning Angel and desjgn, so I’ll repeat two thoughts, which I think are important:
ANGEL - great, flexy cards. My problem with them is they have a different finish on each side of the card. At least the Aristos do. And for some reason, this makes it very slippery to do that riffle bridge shuffle that so many home players do. If we were all doing a proper casino poker dealer’s shuffle, I’d own stacks of Angels. But we’re not, so I don’t.

DESJGN - love them. But comparing them to other brands is almost a waste of time, unless you mention the specific model. Because desjgn has used at least three different stocks from different manufacturers over the years (and it might be as many as five?) So when you say desjgn cards feel great, I’d have to say which ones? The old Modiano stock Desjgns were freaking epic - my favorite cards ever besides KEM (and those rare flexy cartamundis.) But we all know what happened there . . . So when somebody says something about the feel or handling of desjgn cards, it’s meaningless unless they specify which deck.

Edit - in all fairness, there are plenty of manufacturers who use different stocks, so what I said about desjgn could be said about many other brands too - we need to list the specific line with lots of manufacturers when discussing different feels of different stocks.
 
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davefr said:
I would never categorize Fournier as being close the KEM in handling. KEM's shuffle velvety smooth and are almost a little too limp. Fournier are stiff and slippery and create a very crisp shuffle. I hated Fourniers at first but I've come to appreciate a more robust shuffle. The closest I've found to KEM handling is Angel followed by Desjgn.
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There is a lot different opinions on KEM

Why ? Because they very different from other cards

These are only brand that change so much during use. If you take freshly produced deck and one that has like has at least one year of handeling its hard to belive they are the same brand. Is it good ? No ...but please show me other cards that do not have any signs of loosing ink after one or even two years of constant and exesiv use.
I have a 3 yo Arrows and 2 yo set of Casino Circle, I am taking about milege not actuall age.
The Arrow are rubbery in feel and kind of sticky but if you look at back of card there is no way you see any imperfections. Casino Circle still playable and easy to shuffle.
only Modiano Platinium beat that in terms of aging but as you know they only poker size and hard to get in US.
 
davefr said:
I would never categorize Fournier as being close the KEM in handling. KEM's shuffle velvety smooth and are almost a little too limp. Fournier are stiff and slippery and create a very crisp shuffle. I hated Fourniers at first but I've come to appreciate a more robust shuffle. The closest I've found to KEM handling is Angel followed by Desjgn.
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I agree, there is a contrasting feel from one to the other. Kem, minus the warping issues, has always been my go to, but I don't have any experience with Modiano Platinum, Desjgn, or Dal.
 
These count at Fournier, right?
BP cards.jpg
 
surfik said:
There is a lot different opinions on KEM

Why ? Because they very different from other cards

These are only brand that change so much during use. If you take freshly produced deck and one that has like has at least one year of handeling its hard to belive they are the same brand. Is it good ? No ...but please show me other cards that do not have any signs of loosing ink after one or even two years of constant and exesiv use.
I have a 3 yo Arrows and 2 yo set of Casino Circle, I am taking about milege not actuall age.
The Arrow are rubbery in feel and kind of sticky but if you look at back of card there is no way you see any imperfections. Casino Circle still playable and easy to shuffle.
only Modiano Platinium beat that in terms of aging but as you know they only poker size and hard to get in US.
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So right about KEMs ink holding strong. It really is almost unbelievable, especially when compared to other decks. My first deck of KEMs I bought around 2000, that have HUNDREDS of games on them, you wouldn’t even know they’ve been used. I’ve seen those worthless Copags start to fade after just a couple games.
 

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